Idaho Doug's Sunrader build

[IdahoDoug]

Finally getting back to the Sunrader today. With the decision to put two aluminum beams across the sleeper ceiling comes the thick aluminum side plates first.  So they went up today and are curing against work on the beams tomorrow. I'm going to try hand bending (well, foot - controlled stomping) as this curve is less critical than the living area ceiling. I have heat lamps on them on the inside and moving blankets hanging over the roof on the outside to preserve heat against the freezing temps.  Just before bed, I put my hand under the blankets, standing in 38 degree air and was pleased the outer wall felt warm - so the glue is getting perhaps 70 degree cure time which should have it solid for tomorrow when I will epoxy the beams up like I did back in the living area.  

 

Bummed the project has stalled due to cold and such, but hoping this activity will get me motivated again.  Great to hear any feedback or comments here as well for that motivation!

Edited February 11 by IdahoDoug

[Toycollector47]

I am still watching!

 

I just have no input as I’m new to RVing.

 

 

Believe me, your experiences are not being lost on me!

 

im better with the mechanical side than the camper side, so this has been a great learning opportunity for me!

 

keep it up!

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks for the props!  So the side plates cured over night just fine.  Putting the beams up - disaster.  When I picked up the aluminum beam, it's sold in a 20 foot length.  So they asked how long to cut them and I said 74" which would have given me extra to trim back.  If they were going in the back where the other 11 went.  Got nailed by the "measure twice, cut once" factor.  I missed the fact that the upper ceiling is wider up front in the sleeper, so the two cut pieces are now scrap, and the third longer piece that WAS going to be scrap is now the only beam I could put up today.  Argh.  Gotta order another full beam just to cut a 78" piece from it and that will take 2 days to arrive.  Lesson learned.

 

EDIT: And right on cue this morning.  "Sorry, but due to logistics issues we are now out of stock on that item..."  Double Argh

 

The gentle stomping got a nice curve out of the beam, and for the second time I'll say to anyone following my lead that you can do this versus all the trouble and time I spent using a high end roller bender machine.  Although for maximal/optimal strength you do want the beams uniformly curved.  However, I can tell this level of strength is such overkill that a minor degradation would not make any practical difference in handling walking or roof loads, or literally 5 feet of snow.

 

I curved this beam to a 2" peak (measured from the ground to the bottom of the arch).  I'd estimate in the sleeper this was flattened a half inch during installation, then headroom minus the I" thickness of the beam itself and I barely got increase in headroom. I figured this would be the case, but I wanted the strength for walkability, and snow load, plus I wanted two hard points to mount overhead storage, and handles to ease getting in and out of the bunk.  The factory puts only one handle along the right wall, and it's so close to you when you try to pull yourself in/up it doesn't really help you pull yourself up in one motion.  I wanted stable handles at different points for late night bathroom visits, getting over a sleeping spouse, etc.  Plus, the incredible strength back in the living area from these beams made me feel if offers protection from something like a falling branch, and laying in the sleeper at night in a windstorm some future night thinking "why didn't I put those protective beams up here where we sleep?" was another benefit. And I plan to make my sleeper hatch that covers the access hole a hinged piece, so I'll be able to use the beam above to mount a stout hard point to hold the hatch open while driving.

 

The side plates may also make for a nice tie down mount some day, simply by drilling all the way through and using a washer on the inside to spread what could be a very considerable load from the outside such as a hammock rope, an awning tie down, etc.  Here's the first sleeper beam up:

 

 

Edited February 12 by IdahoDoug

[Andrewups]

Nice job!!!

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks.  Going to put another across and I'm now even thinking of a third one closer to the front.  I got up on the roof with this one now cured and was surprised how much it flexes.  So I may have made the sleeper roof awkwardly strong. By that, strong, but not so strong I can stand on it.  Meaning if I do, the beams may fail and then I've got a mess.  So I may have to put further beams up to ensure it's strong enough for a human.

 

Just got back from a drive across state lines to Washington to buy more metal for beams (out locally) plus I picked up a 4 X 8 sheet of Plexi-Glass for the new wrap around windows.  Got a few tips on how to cut it from the plastic vendor.  They use a custom 60 tooth 10" saw blade.  Very coarse and I expected fine teeth but he said those gum up.  Hmmm...

 

Got pulled over by state patrol coming home.  The Plexi-Glass didn't fit in my classic LandCruiser, which I expected.  So I was on the interstate with the tailgate down and the sheet hanging out secured but it didn't look secured.  The Washington State Patrol officer was very polite about it and was just worried it was going to fall out. When  he saw the hooks on the sheet, all was well.  Then I mentioned I thought he was pulling me over because my plate is on the tailgate and he couldn't see it.  He deadpanned "Maybe I should write you up for that?" and raised his eyebrows, then burst out laughing.  Nice guy. 

 

Leaving for San Diego for a week, so my weekend work session isn't happening.  Hoping to put up a second beam before I head out, so it will be fully cured before I try the roof again.  If I need a third beam in the sleeper, I'm going to need more aluminum side plate - argh....

[IdahoDoug]

Well, out of pure stubbornness, I got out there in the dark and put up the second beam in the sleeper, so when I get back from SD, it will be fully cured and I'll know if I need another beam in the sleeper or not. Pic later as my iphone's photos are not available on the computer yet. I completely screwed up my system for doing these for this, possibly the last beam.  Total screwup.  It's a bit of a dance once you spread the epoxy the full length of the beam.  Working alone, I have to put marine caulk on the screws inserted from outside, through the metal side plate, and through an L bracket I made for each end of the beam.  Then I have to maneuver the epoxy smeared beam up atop one L bracket (left loose for space) and then go to the other end, and shove the beam up very hard so I can put it atop the other bracket.  To make it especially challenging, I tape a box end wrench onto one bolt out on the outside of the sleeper, so I can install a nut, then tighten it.  Repeat for the 2 nut/bolts on each end.

 

Somehow I mis measured and could not push the beam up to get it to line up with the holes. Then the wrench fell off the tape and I heard it clang into the gravel, and I'm standing there unable to let go of the beam to go fix that.  You've all been there.  Just standing there thinking "how did I get myself into this?", right? Trying to guage how many random tools and pieces of wood I can hook with my foot to bring within range where I might stack it all up under the loose end of the beam, etc.  Luckily, my daughter's fiance' happened to arrive and a few shouted instructions through the Sunrader wall later, all was well.  

 

So, upward and onward.

 

Edit:  The final beam (I hope): 

Edited February 16 by IdahoDoug

[Ctgriffi]

Love seeing the progress—keep it up, sir! It will be amazing to see this thing back on the road eventually, in all its glory! (Great photo ^ too, with all the drama of a Chernobyl investigation, ha!)

[IdahoDoug]

Yes, definitely Chernobyl comes to mind at the moment.  

 

So today for the third time (that I recall) I've told my family that this is the "last beam and finally I can start building things in there".  I opted to reinforce the sleeper ceiling as the more I thought about it, the more I realized I'll need to install several strong handles on the ceiling so my wife and I can sneak over one another if one gets up earlier to make coffee, etc.  Plus the move away from wall shelving for our "night stuff", and of course the obvious safety benefit if a branch falls on the coach.

 

So.  How do I know this is the "last" beam?  There's literally no more space that doesn't have a beam.  I did some quick math for others to know what went into those beams.  $5 worth of stainless fasteners on each end of the 14 beams for $140.   $20 worth of epoxy for each beam for $280.  I've forgotten how much I paid for the beams themselves and the side plates, but it's north of $500 all up.  Well worth it, as I can now move about the entire roof, no snow load could collapse it (I don't think 5 feet would do it as the load's spread evenly and would present no point loads, plus it would slough off) from a practical perspective. No flexing to loosen up roof vent or roof A/C.

 

Tomorrow, I hope to get out there and make some serious progress on resealing the side wall windows, installing the foam underlayment on the walls, and possibly end the day with a pink board insulation piece up.

[IdahoDoug]

OK.  Cooking with gas now.  Realized I could not put the sleeper interior wall fabric up with no new front clearance lights installed.  The wires will be covered by the fabric.  So I ordered those today.  Wow what a painful shopping experience.  I stuck to Amazon as at least the products we order arrive soon where other websites are a crapshoot.  But can I just say how idiotic it is to be selling clearance lights where you give the dimensions of the product but NOT the distance between the mounting screws?  That's 95% of what's offered.  Kinda like selling tires without the rim size.  That dimension is the FIRST thing you want to know as these are all mounted in thin sheetmetal or fiberglas skins and who wants to drill new holes?  Unbelievable.

 

Got two pieces of the pink insulation up as well as the third roof beam - all in 24 hours.  Best day of work since December, I believe:

 

[IdahoDoug]

And finally, the last piece of pink roof insulation is up and drying.  One during lunch, one after work. The new front clearance lights arrived yesterday, so I'll install them before covering the wiring with the sleeper wall/ceiling foam and fabric. Can't wait to try stepping on the sleeper roof to see if the pink foam added as much stiffness here as it did back in the main living area. 

 

[MaineJed]

Your thoroughness is impressive, I did the same type of project on ours a few years ago and should of taken as many pictures as you are, great for reference in the future should a issue arise.

[IdahoDoug]

Hey, Jed - would love to see a few pictures of your completed rig.  Maybe I could use some ideas and such?  I find the more I look at others versions of what a Toyota mini RV should do for us, the more mine evolves.  So, start a thread on this forum if you like?

 

Super excited today.  One of the things I've been noodling on since these things are quite slow is putting serious tail lamps on it to keep following drivers aware.  Not just LEDs but I have been looking at tail lamps for school buses, ambulances and fire trucks as they can be super bright versus the dimmer regulations for passenger vehicles. I also want them HUGE. Unfortunately they're frightfully expensive due to the hyper low volumes.  Try $250-$400.  Per light.  

 

The other day, I was in a parking lot and one of our county's newest school buses was in the lot waiting for kids on a field trip. Wow, nice tail lights. I asked the driver if I could measure his tail lights and he said sure.  Then I reached out to the district's motor pool to see if I could come in and look at a spare part to see if it would fit on the Sunrader.  Today was the day and they kindly let me measure and fondle their spare tail lights.

 

I found a type from Weldon Technologies that are going to be a perfect fit for what I have in mind.  He let me know where he buys them, and I called today and ordered two running/brake lamps and a pair of amber blinkers.  Pleasantly, they were about $60 each, which made me excited to spend less as I got extravagant on another order today.  I'll shoot pictures when they arrive.

 

Another exterior lighting system I'm installing on the Sunrader is full perimeter high intensity exterior illumination.  As we camp offgrid in places with apex predators, I found a need for it with our current camper, and installed a "one touch" system on it. When something goes bump in the night, we can light up a 100 foot circle with 7 small but powerful lights.  This system will be approximately 4 times as much power, so I can't wait to see how it turns out in the dark woods.  Today, I bought 10 light heads from a law enforcement vendor and will be mounting them up before I install the new wall paneling.  I overbought, but frankly I get so much use out of the system on the VW, I am sure it will be a pleasure to use on the Sunrader, which is also quite a bit larger and I'll appreciate the lighting when we're maneuvering in the dark.

[IdahoDoug]

Another exciting day.  With the sleeper walls and ceiling about to be closed in with final trim, I realized the sleeper roof is where I had in mind for solar.  So I climbed up and did some measuring to confirm there's not enough room over the main area for solar and kayaks.  Meaning I have to drill holes and mount the solar right now.  I ordered the Renogy 200w system which is plenty for our needs.  We currently get by offgrid for 3 days using only 1 deep cycle battery and rarely deplete it just sitting isolated and not being charged the whole time.  We just use a small fan at night, cell phone and laptop charging, and that's it.  So with the Sunrader, we'll have some larger needs offgrid due to the fridge, powered ceiling vent and about 20 times as many lights, but will have two house batteries.  

 

That will be in Monday and I'm excited.  Looked at flexible systems but my sleeper roof is arched now and not a uniform radius.  So it will be a pair of hard panels on the sleeper with some kind of yet-to-be-fabricated branch protection. I also hope to make a quick disconnect for one, so I can move 100w out into the sun if we are parked in dark shade.

[WME]

100w Solar panels are cheap nowdays,like under $60. Hard mount your 2  over the sleeper and just buy another 1 of the same for your ground mount. Look up utube for pvc solar mounts. Use Anderson connectors for your extension.

[IdahoDoug]

That's a good idea.  How many watts can the 30W controller with this system handle?  I bought an extra weather sealed port so I could do exactly what you describe.  If I install this port down at ground level, I can  easily plug in another solar panel and unroll an extension wire out into the sun.  The other port will, of course, be up on the roof for the hard mounted solar panels.  

[WME]

If I read the Renogy web info right, you have a Renogy Adventure Li-30 PWM controller. With all the numbers running around the solar stuff, its easy to get things mixed up.

The Adventure is a 30 AMP controller, that's the MAX amps OUTPUT it will send to your batteries. It's rated for a MAX of 50 volts, 400 watts  INPUT from your solar panels. So using 3-100w panels in Parallel would be OK.

NOTE a  PWM controller is sensitive to miss matched panels, so make sure that your panels are the same, Voc and Isc. Those numbers should be on a label on the back of the panel. Amazon sells Renogy so you could get your extra panel there.

P.S. easy up grade would be a 30 amp MPPT controller. They work differently and are in the range of 20% more efficient.

P.P.S. A solar "day" is 5 hr, so under perfect conditions your setup w/ 3 panels will recharge about 65 AMP HOURS into your batteries a day.

Edited March 2 by WME

[IdahoDoug]

Yep, that's correct. Sweet!  Great having such well informed folks on the forum.  I honestly can't believe the price point for this - solar has come down significantly.   That's great to know I can add up to two more before I'd need to upgrade hardware.  I may have some questions for you later in the Spring when this gets installed and I start thinking batteries, etc if that's OK?

 

[WME]

Spring is springing, time to get your ducks in a row. 

Batteries...

AGM  100ah Renogy is $190, weighs 65lbs, MAX safe Depth of discharge (DOD, going all techie) is 70%, they will work down to -4 deg, last 5-7 years, never needs water, can mount inside if you going out at -4 deg, works great with solar, Toyota alternator and your current 12v converter.

 

LifePo4 (LFP) 100 ah , mid range $$ , a name brand-Litime, Redodo, is $230, weight 25lbs, MAX safe DOD is 100%, this maybe important to some the low temp cut off is 32 deg,...@ 80% DOD lifespan is 20 years, never needs water, can mount inside, works great with your solar, works so so with your factory 12v converter, Toyota factory alternators are not real happy. You need a DC to DC charger to protect the alternator.

 The LFP batteries are decreasing in price.

Alternate LFP... the standard  LFP100ah battery is between GP 24-27. There is now a mini 100ah LFP that is smaller than a GP 24 and weighs 19 lbs, cost is + $20.

 Also there LFP batteries that have low temp cut off built in, some even have heaters and blu tooth. There are +$60 depending which of the features you want

 

[IdahoDoug]

Ah, wonderful and a tip of the hat.  You just saved me perhaps 6 hours of reading and noodling!  Can i swap the underhood battery for lithium and avoid the dc to dc charger?  I suspect no, but it needs that battery as well.  
 

I'd like to use the factory converter and fuse center also.  Bad idea? If you haven't noticed, I'm slowly getting you to design my electrical system.  So I guess I"ll come clean and ask what would you do on a budget for the rest of the gear?  I prewired the roof for A/C and am installing a microwave/convection oven as well as a slightly larger Norcold fridge.  We wont use the a/c or microwave boondocking - only on shore power.  
 

Feast your eyes on the Sunraders new "super-taillights". They are huge and fit perfectly vertically edge to edge matching the factory light white flange. Horizontally, they go to within 2" of the entire factory lamp width.  The dollar is for scale, and the third stop lamp is a whopping 16" wide and will be above the rear window.  Should be extremely vivid:

 

[WME]

Demms some bright lights.    OK back to solar and some rambling thoughts

 

1. Install 3 AGMs 2 for house and 1 for engine, then your good to go

 

2. LFP is NOT a starter battery. You need a regular car battery or an AGM starter battery.

3. Your old 12v RV converter will charge a LFP to about an 80% SOC (state of charge). As an idea 2 of the 100 amp LFP batteries at 80% will have about 150% more energy than the battery you had. Depending when you park for the day, your solar may top off the battery before the end of the day

Also remember as your driving down the road your roof mounted solar panels are working.

4. The problem with LFP and a stock alternator is that the LFP has a very low internal resistance. The LiTime battery will easily accept a 90 amp charge. 2 of them means a 180 amp charge rate. How long do you think a stock Toyota alternator of 60 amps will last at full power before it melts?

The way the BMS inside of each battery (battery management System, with its controlling computer) works is if the battery is 90% DOD then it gets charged at 90 amps, if the battery is 50% DOD it gets charged at 90 amps, if its 25% DOD it gets 90 amps, if its 5% DOD then it gets 5 amps.

5. The DC2DC charger will let you set the MAX input amps from the alternator, then it talks to the BMS in the LFP batteries and divides the MAX input you selected, between the 2 batteries. So a 30 amp max input gets divided and each battery gets a 15 amp charge when your driving.

So when your driving each battery would get 15 amps from the DC2DC and 5 amps from the solar panels. 

 

TMI... got room for a single 200 AH LFP battery, 21"x9"x8.5"?? There are a few with blu-tooth, low temp cut off,and self heating that run about $625 and would greatly simplify the wiring and the cost of the wires. You understand that your talking about 4/0 AWG sized wires for this much power. Without the bells and whistles a 12v 200 ah battery is under $500

You need to size the wire and fuses according to the batteries potential power, not how much you think your going to be using. You will always figure a way to use the extra power with some new widjet

 

This is the boring part of designing a solar system. You should do a power audit, how much power each item uses and how many hours or minutes it runs in a day. Add it all up in watt hours or amp hours but not both mixed up, apple and oranges stuff.  You may not need 200 AH of batteries. 

 

FWIW I been doing RV solar for 25 years, my first system was a used 60 w panel, a 15 amp controller and a Wal Mart Marine Deep Cycle GP 27 battery. It cost more than your 3 panel system. will. BUT it worked within its limits. Our winter boondocking time went from 2 days to 5 days before we ran out of power. Out of water after 5 days anyway so it was OK.

[IdahoDoug]

Fantastic suggestions and information.  Will start looking at the items you mention and make a decision.  Thanks!!!!

 

[IdahoDoug]

Today, I cut the plexiglas wraparound windows out.  Used a multi tool with a drywall blade per folks on YouTube.  Worked well.  Now I need to bend them and trim to final shape.  There is a protective kraft paper film on it, which I'll have to remove for the bending:

 

[IdahoDoug]

Well, I should admit at the outset that bending the windows intimidated me. So much can go wrong and the angles have to be VERY close.  I spent several hours measuring things with some findings to pass along. FIrst, I thought "Just bend it to 90 degrees and trim off the rest.  Um nope.  It's a bit of finagling and finally I started all over once I realized the true challenge.  

 

The biggest challenge is defining the center of the bend as it relates to the coach.  I ended up using a sharpie and making a few reference points on the old one, then transferring these to the flat cutout.  The flat cutout was precise for the long section, but lots of extra material on the short end - like a lolly pop.  Once my restart happened, I was confident I'd bend it to the right angle.  

 

Then we did some testing:

 

 

As you can see, I chose clear for my windows.  I'm big on seeing things and always have binoculars at hand, special order windshields without the tint band at top so I can see up and that sort of approach.  For privacy, I've installed a chunk of wood above these windows so later I will build a single insulated blackout piece across the whole sleeper that flops down into place with magnets for privacy at night. If we later feel it needs a tint, I'll have a tint shop install the perfect tint/heat reflecting product.

 

So I started these tests using those little aluminum nibs as a pressure point on the piece of metal tube I bought - that's what I clamped the still-flat piece to the metal tube we're bending it over. However, the bent section against the pipe went a bit wavy despite our best efforts, and my son came up with the idea of making those wide half moon pieces (chunks of the pipe we were using), to use as clamps on the pipe to force the waves to flatten before it cooled.  Worked super well and best was to switch once the part had almost the 90 degree bend we were looking for and then let it cool clamped like that.  Obviously we couldn't use the curved parts when the piece was flat, plus the tiny nibs purpose was to let me heat all the plastic, where the curved parts block it and shield the plastic from heat.  Make sense?  Ask if not.

 

So then we switched to the actual windows.  The key is to make a 3D "jig" that the long end will get pulled down to by gravity and rest/stop on something of known height on the floor.  We simply used a cardboard box the right height.  Then the short end you just push down until you're at about 90 degrees.  halfway through this you have to switch from using the little aluminum nibs, to the curved "guides" my son suggested.  You'll also see the center section along the metal pipe rise up as the edges are pinched down, and the the heating material wants to expand, so this switch  halfway handily relieves that pressure and when you unclamp it to switch, the part settles back down - compression relieved as it can elongate now.  In testing we kept hearing this popping sound which we discovered was the plastic wanting to expand against the spots it was clamped to the pipe.  Here you can see us halfway through the process, with the heat gun on high:

 

 

Above, we haven't yet switched from the nibs to the curved guides.  Below, now you can see we have switched to the curved guides, finished bending, and the part is cooling.  On the near end by the clamp you can see a significant wobble.  this was our first full window and we learned how to avoid that on the second one (we're not sure how) but this is a part of the lolly pop end that will be trimmed and if that leaves a little wobble I'll try direct heat with a torch and two pieces of wood to straighten it enough to fit in the rubber seal.

 

 

Here are the old piece, and the two new pieces.  Hard to see the new ones, but trust me - they are there!!!

 

 

Next step will be to bring them to the Sunrader and tape the long piece in correct position, then mark the lolly pop for final trim. 

 

 

Edited March 11 by IdahoDoug

[IdahoDoug]

Complete and utter disaster!  I got one window cut to size, and pulled the seal out I'd bought on recommendation here. It won't properly fit.  The factory seal has deeper grooves that help the seal not roll off the fiberglass.  Mine is a 1/4"/ and 1/8" size (plexi 1/8", coach wall 1/4").  Turns out my coach is more like 1/8 except for the corners which are 1/4 thick.  So unlike a video I watched of a couple installing their Sunrader windows where they had to pound it onto the coach with a rubber mallet, mine simply falls off, rolls back and forth with all the slack, and generally will not provide a good seal.  The less deep grooves worsen this.  I tried silicone to "glue" the seal to the coach, but it was a disaster.  I had to toss the seal in hot soapy water and remove the silicone after simply making a mess.

 

I'm at a loss here.  I scoured the world for a seal with deeper grooves.  Nope.  Ditto a 1/8" and 1/8" seal which is what I need, and the factory seal was also similar groove widths - not 1/4".  No luck.  So, I am looking for help if anyone has input.  Really bummed.

[MaineJed]

If I’m understanding this correctly can you add to the opening of the camper to accommodate the 1/4 groove?

[fred heath]

Could you apply some vinyl edging to your plexiglass to make a tighter fitment to the gasket?  I’ve attached a link to give you an idea of my thought process.

 

 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Uxcell-Trim-Seal-PVC-U-Seal-Fits-0-5-1mm-Edge-3-28Ft-0-2-Height-Transparent/626892491?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=571&adid=22222222228626892491_571_14069003552_202077872&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=42423897272&wl4=aud-393207457166:pla-295289030566&wl5=9009733&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=111838760&wl11=online&wl12=626892491_571&veh=sem&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADmfBIp9GUXZaaLs8ugzJ-rbPmyGu&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7aOU1879hAMVGxatBh3A1g58EAQYBSABEgKclvD_BwE

 

[IdahoDoug]

Yes, thinking of thickening the opening edges, and looked last night, but it needs to be solid rubber - foams n softer materials will still allow the seal to simply roll off by compressing the material. Must also be a strip on one or both sides, vs a U shape which reduces the open size and forces me to trim the window again.  Thanks. The core issue remains a proper seal like the factory one - with deep enough grooves to go around the 4 sharp curves and not slip off...

[linda s]

Yes the newer locking weatherstrip is narrower than the original. Still it has been used by dozens of Sunrader owners with no problems. I myself have done at least 5. As for your thinner cut out opening I suspect it has something to do with your sanding the backside of the fiberglass. Don't understand why you felt you needed to do that. Thickening the cutout shouldn't be that hard. Add some of this to the inside of the cutout where needed. I would cut it down to 1/2 inch width though. No need for it to be wider. 

Amazon.com: Neoprene Rubber Strips Self Adhesive Solid Rubber Sheets, Rolls & Strips for DIY Gaskets Crafts Pads Seals Warehouse Flooring Rubber Strip with Adhesive Backing (1” Wide x 1/8" Thick x 10' Long) : Industrial & Scientific. 

It also comes in 1/16 thick. I think that might be a better fit

Linda S

[IdahoDoug]

Thanks, Linda.  That's exactly what I fruitlessly searched for.  Oddly I recall seeing this product, but noticed "neoprene" and moved on.  In the deeper description it is actually a solid rubber product and I would never have noticed if you had not posted this here.  I ordered both thicknesses as time is of the essence and I also may have areas I need slightly more or less added thickness.  

 

I also ordered some extremely tenacious Sika urethane windshield adhesive, which will be used to further fill gaps and variations and provide a powerful bond.  I've heard it's murderous to work with and cleanup of excess squeezeout is nearly impossible, so I'm concerned it will not look so hot at the end of the process.  Lumps of excess here and there.  But I'm resolved to accept that, versus a leaking wraparound. If anyone's worked with this stuff, sing out with any tips.

 

Really unfortunate it went this way as we had super rare temps in the upper 60s, which I was counting on as a gift to help me wrangle the thick seal.  Now temps are dropping back into the 40s per our normal temps for the weekend - the only time lately I can get to the Sunrader.  Argh...

 

Also, I haven't done any sanding around the opening of the wraparounds at all.  You might be recalling the ceiling sanding to remove the glue the factory used to hang their foam.  I needed that removed for good adhesion of the pink Foamular I hung in the main living area and recently the sleeper as well. So it's just variations in the layup from the manufacturer.  Perhaps mine was made thinner and is a rare "factory lightweight"?  Heh..

Edited March 20 by IdahoDoug

[linda s]

Please stay away from the Sikaflex. The weatherstrip seals just fine if you fit it in tightly. You saw that video of windows getting installed. Notice how he cuts it too long and forces it into the slot. If you must a tiny beard of regular silicone around the outside edge. You're doing too much nice work to have an ugly gunky mess on your windows. 

Linda S

[Ctgriffi]

May or may not be relevant at this juncture but just chiming in to say that, whenever a caulk/sealant application needs to look REALLY good, I'm all about laying down plenty of masking tape on both sides of the seam first, making sure the gap between is straight and even: that way, you can apply the bead of product, tool it down, then carefully pull away all the tape for a factory-crisp line. Looks good, feels great!  

[IdahoDoug]

Linda,  I feel the same about the potential sloppy looking caulking.  My concern is manifold.  The opening of the window is not straight and even, but wrought with high and low spots, as well as thick and thin spots.  For instance, the sharp curve areas are thicker than 1/4 inch and in testing with spare chunks of the seal - the seal wants to roll off either into the coach or outward.  

 

Since the seal's design is that once you insert the "key" it achieves a seal by being squeezed against the fiberglass opening and the new plexiglas, all it will take is one tiny area where the seal is not squeezing to allow water through while driving in the rain at 60 with the air pressure wanting to force water through the seal.  Just one area in the 20 feet of sealing length of both windows.  

 

If this were a molded opening that was uniform, or a metal opening without lumps, bumps, etc I'd be more confident of getting uniform seal pressure.  So, the caulk will fill that ONE spot that would have leaked and broken my heart that after all my work, I have a leak right at the bed.  I agree it is a bummer to do this. 

 

I plan to glue the seal to the body, let it dry, then work the new window in.  I am worried about putting the window in with the caulk wet as it will act as a lubricant and may suddenly slip and bunch up - dunno.  That's ideal with it wet as then the seal is held in the correct orientation by the glass, but I need to think it through as soapy water is needed, etc.  

 

Thanks for the taping suggestion!  That may be super helpful here - appreciate it!!

[IdahoDoug]

Well, disaster again.  Yesterday, I went out to finish one of the wraparound windows.  It's turned out to be a process of cutting it "close" and bending it.  Then trimming 1/6 off here, then there.  Each trim actually causes the part to change orientation in the Sunrader opening if you think about it. One end rises, the other end drops, and so on.  I'm using small chunks of the rubber seal to hold it in place and see where it's still too tight.

 

Anyhow, I was just a bit of trimming away from a finished piece to try putting it in tomorrow when calamity struck. I moved my work table out next to the Sunrader for this fast cycle "trim/check fit" stage.  Slightly irritated that it started sprinkling and I wasn't finished (lots of delays), I shoved a couple tools around my work surface and hurriedly moved the piece of foam I was cutting on to protect the table.  Window laying on the ground for the adjustment.  A screwdriver fell off, bounced once and landed in a perfect gymnastic "10" point down on the window and broke it.  

 

Man, this is really testing my patience. I soberly came inside, pulled the remainder of my 4X8 plexi sheet out and cut a new one.  Will bend it tomorrow and as it's supposed to snow I will just do other things.   Linda's rubber strips arrived and I think they're exactly what I needed, so I'll trim about 10 feet of each thickness into 1/4" strips to match the lips of the seal.  Sadly, I also need to pull the trim back around the windows on the inside.  I put it there when I first found the seal's gap was too wide, thinking it would help fill the gap.  Should have thought that through - it's not firm enough to keep the seal oriented and just crushes.  Now its just in the way and freshly glued in my way to boot.  

 

More as the story develops - film at 11.......

[IdahoDoug]

Well, I really, really hit a low point here.  Every sizable project has these ups and downs.  Thankfully the ups typically outnumber the downs by 100 to 1.  

 

No idea how I did this, but I cut the NEW window off by an inch, not paying attention to the angle it will be once bent.  So, I have some happy news.  Yes, you can do all THAT and still have enough plexiglas to cut a fourth wraparound window from a single sheet.  Whew.  And, BTW, still enough left to replace the door window. 

 

I bent the new left window today, and also fixed a wobble in the right window we left out of not knowing what to do with it since it was our first attempt at bending.  

 

So, I now have two rough cut, properly bent windows and will restart the "trim-trial fit-trim" cycle all over again but with a better technique I developed. Whew.

 

I'm also going to sell a pattern and instructions for $25 for others who want to give this a go.  Two hard-fought items in this will be the proper rough outline of the part, and the critical angle to bend the part.  That angle is the franchise, as you'll notice your front portion leans backward, while the side portion is perfectly vertical.

 

Onward and upward.

[existentialferret]

Hey Doug, 

 

Just a quick message of support! This thread has continued to be a great inspiration, and even this speed bump a nice reminder that even your seemingly hyper-effective progress has it's own challenges! 

On my end I've been dealing with several iterations of trying to seal these front windows, and have now decided I'll just fiberglass. Frustrating to get here after a lot of effort to avoid it, but just not worth it anymore!

Looking forward to seeing more of your build, it its own time.