RIP 1987 Dolphin

[Plain Jane]

Hello all,

I haven't posted on this forum for a while. After living in my Dolphin over the winter and having multiple cabin and automotive repairs done on it over my two-year ownership, I am having to give it up. Returning from its inspection in Western New York a week ago - it passed, finally - the engine suddenly stopped working on the interstate, with no warning. The mechanic that repaired it for inspection looked at it and guessed the latest problem was the head gasket, but said it could be worse. He's estimating repairs to be beyond what I can afford, especially because the transmission on my 11-year-old car went at almost the same time. It's been an interesting August!

My question: What now? The mechanic can't pay me more than "a few hundred" dollars for automotive parts, even though some of them are new. Lots of the cabin equipment (stove, AC, fridge, toilet, plumbing, generator) still works, and some of it is new (water heater, water pump). Should I try to sell it locally, as a "she shed" for example? I have people telling me it's worthless, but I would like a knowledgeable opinion on that. I'll accept whatever you all say, because I know you know your stuff!

Thanks in advance for any input.

PJ

[linda s]

If it still looks good just post it on craigslist and say needs headgasket. List all the things you have had repaired and replaced so buyers know it had been taken care of. Since Toyota motorhomes are pretty hard to find now I would think you could get at least 5 or 6 grand. What was your mechanic's repair estimate. 

Linda S

[thewanderlustking]

Well it is far from "worthless" but I defiantly get how frustrating the stacking up of repairs can be...  I gave up on mine for the opposite reason.  The mechanicals don't scare me in the slightest, but the interior repairs had just become WAY too much.

 

1987 Dolphin, so I believe it should have the 22RE 4cyl in it?  If it is the 4cyl, I would step out on a limb and say that doing a head gasket on it is DIY-able for somebody with fair mechanical ability.  Myself, I could have the head off of a 22RE in under an hour.  With some planning and Youtube study/guidance, I think most people that know what end of the wrench to use, could feasibly do this job over a weekend.  The parts kit to do this job isn't very expensive either.  Prices and quality vary, but you can get everything needed of decent quality for around $500 online.  If you go lower quality, you can get down to about $150.  BUT dump the head gasket and spend extra on a high quality one.  

 

 Now the 6cyl is a different story....  Vacuum lines alone, it isn't an easy one to tackle for a seasoned DIY-er.  Somebody with maybe better than average DIY experience could still pull it off.  But you are way more likely to come into problems not so easily solved.  Simply doing valve cover gaskets on my 4Runner became a nightmare.  Whoever had been in there last, and I believe it was actually a professional shop, stripped out camshaft bolts.  

 

But lets start at the beginning.  First which one do you have?  Then what actually happened?  Describe the events around this "failure."  Have you overheated it before?  Head-gaskets RARELY just fail without some warning or provocation on Toyotas.  Although on our heavily overloaded beasts, it takes much less...   Still it is almost always going to overheat a bit, loose coolant, start running rough, etc before it "just suddenly stops."  

 

Also under most circumstances, a blown head gasket will not just suddenly stop an engine.  Unless catastrophic damage occurred.  And that type of damage usually comes with some pretty horrendous noises.  If it just stopped quietly and won't restart, it is much more likely a simple issue like a failed fuel pump, or possibly an ignition sensor came unplugged/failed.  

 

If this diagnoses was given over the phone by symptoms you described... Don't give it too much stock.  But it sounds like a mechanic physically looked at it...  A very solid answer of yes or no to the head gasket can be given in about 30 minutes.  Where it gets foggy, is how much damage was done if the head gasket did actually blow.  This is where most shops are going to play it safe and recommend a full engine replacement instead of just a head gasket.  To to the job "100% correct" with minimal liability, pulling the engine out, and resurfacing the head and the block are required.  It is way less effort, and frequently less in labor, to just replace the whole engine.  

 

This is where the INSANE difference between DIY and having a shop do it really starts to make much more sense to take the DIY approach.  And at least on the 4cyl, the blocks don't seem to commonly have warping issues.  You are pretty safe pulling the head, cleaning, replacing and leaving the bottom half in place.  

 

And if no matter what the answers are, you are done with the stress and want to sell it, then post some pictures up here for us too!  Prices seem to be going back to more "normal" levels (unfortunately for sellers).  But these Toyota motorhomes hit an odd niche.  Size wise they are small, but well appointed and self contained.  They can actually be gotten cheaper than a lot of travel trailers.  In fact there is a highly sought after Sunrader on craigslist right now for $29k!     

[Plain Jane]

Thanks to both of you. Wanderlustking, I'm intrigued by what you say about how an engine usually makes noise before quitting because of a blown head gasket, because there definitely was no noise - not more than it usually made, which was admittedly a lot. To answer your question, I was driving along the interstate at the speed limit and the battery and brake lights came on, although the brakes worked fine. I think they came on because the engine had cut off, but I don't know. I got off at the next exit and at the bottom of the exit ramp and braked, then tried to start it again to get it off the road. It didn't start and there was vapor/smoke coming from under the hood. 

I just checked with the mechanic and he said he'd charge me another $200 to take the engine apart and verify whether the problem is the head gasket.

DIY is out, not only because I have nowhere to work on it and no more money to buy parts with, but also because I've used up my auto club's allowance for towing the Dolphin from one place to another for this year. It needed a special wrecker because pulling it up on a regular flatbed can damage the back end.

Linda, I bought it for $6k so I probably wouldn't be able to sell it for that - the improvements I made were for my own use but hardly high spec. But I could probably sell it for something higher than what I'd get for scrap. I know Toyotas have a huge following - not 15 minutes before it quit, a man at a service station where I was emptying my waste tanks told me he'd always wanted one of them. And that was about the fifth compliment on it that I'd received in the week or so when I was driving it around before it failed, in the few off hours I could drive it outside of my full-time working hours. I am sure you all experience this all the time.

I will post some pictures here when I am able to, which is not right now.

[IdahoDoug]

I'm with WLKing on the symptoms not matching the mechanic's over the phone diagnosis.  To me, it sounds like your fan belt simply came off - assuming it also drives the alternator.  That's the brake/battery lights.  It sounds like you "drove" (versus pure coasting) off the freeway to the next exit and off the exit. So that sounds like your engine was still running.  In running without cooling, it got hot very quickly and may have either properly pushed past the radiator cap, or perhaps blew a hose.  Dunno on that.  Send some pictures of the belts right away if you want quick help.  

 

But either way, this is not a head gasket from the sounds of it. But the mechanic is being cagy with his 200 offer to open the engine.  What are you going to say if he says "head gasket"?  Tell him to put it together to go somewhere else for a 2nd opinion?  Nope, he's got your truck in his garage partly disassembled and no longer able to drive.

 

Send us pictures.

 

[linda s]

Yes easy for you to see if the fan belt is still there. Also check the oil. If the head gasket is blown the oil will look milky like coffee with cream instead of like oil should. Coolant might have an oily residue at the top too. 

Linda S 

[thewanderlustking]

I am 199% with Linda on this!  You DO NOT need to "pull apart" an engine to figure out if it has a blown head gasket.  That is utter BS.  And $200 is also not really a "pulling apart" the engine labor price either....   If he actualy does take your engine apart for $200, I PROMISE you he has no plans on putting it back together without adding a zero to that!   Or he will be all "Oh hey its only this "$300 additional part" and smile as he replaces your alternator belt...  

 

This guy is being cagey/shady for sure.  Most shops will charge an hour diagnostic, that is fair.  But any real mechanic can not only do a a quick basics check, fuel, spark, air to narrow down why it quit, but if they can't get it running, can at least check a few other things and give a very solid idea of head gasket blown or not.  

 

Check your belts like Linda said.  Without the mechanics help, you can do this!  If the belt is gone and you can, replace it.  Before you even bother though, try cranking it over.  If it does't fire up and run and sounds like the battery is weak, charge it up.  If it sounds like uneven chugging or really fast spinning without the normal even chugging, STOP.  If it fires up and runs, though probably not well, turn it back off.  

 

Important, without a belt it will rapidly overheat.  You only want to run it for  30-60 seconds tops.  

 

If it runs and sounds rough, get a belt on it if it was missing.  If it sounds smooth, then you are likely out of the woods for any serious damage.  Again, do not run it long.

 

Next check the cooling system, is it low?  Fill up if so.  Just use water for now.  If it pours out of somewhere, replace the house or whatever it is pouring out of.  Once the cooling system is buttoned up, you can run the truck and heat it up.  Before you do this part, get a block tester kit from AutoZone (or whatever parts store you want).  Autozone will do a tool rental with a deposit, but will possibly make you buy the fluid.  $20.  It is an easy test to do, a couple Youtube videos and you will be a pro.   

 

Except for replacing actual parts like hoses, a radiator, water pump, etc, all the above is easily less than an hour of work for any reasonably skilled tech.  At the shop if the truck isn't running, I would also do a couple more quick things to narrow down why.  Push the shrader valve on the fuel pressure rail and see if there is fuel spray.  Actualy the 22RE might not have a shrader, but you could crack loose the line to the cold start injector too.

 

Seriously I can't stress enough that while this isn't necessarily easy for somebody with zero mechanical background, it is also easy enough that without that background in a couple hours, and some Youtube videos you can narrow it down to a very solid answer of yes or no to the head gasket.  and if no, you can probably already have it fixed.

 

   

 

 

[Plain Jane]

Sorry for the radio silence. The Dolphin is stuck at the mechanic's, about 30 mins away, and I work full-time, so I haven't been able to get up there this week. I'll have to use my Labor Day weekend to look at it. No worries, I already told him I didn't want him to take the engine apart. The truck is not running. 

 

I'll post pictures of everything when I do get up there this weekend.

 

 

 

 

[Plain Jane]

So I'm up here now with the Dolphin and have taken a few pictures - TBH I don't really know what I'm taking pictures of but hopefully they will be helpful. I'll be here a while emptying out the cabin if anyone wants to respond right away.

[Plain Jane]

Also, engine won't start, and oil is normal color and not low.

[linda s]

Is the radiator full?

[thewanderlustking]

Linda, is it my imagination or is her ignitor module on the coil unplugged???  I can't make things out too well over there...

 

Jane, define "engine won't start" for us.  Does it spin/crank over normally, but just not catch and fire?  Does it try to sputter and fire at all?    

[jminshew]

Hello,

 

I read all of your posts, and when you say it will not start,  do you mean it will not turn over, or it will turn over and not crank up?

[Plain Jane]

No, nothing happens at all. The battery comes on but that's it.

[jminshew]

Is this a standard transmission or automatic?  Couldnt see a dipstick tube from pictures to tell if it was an automatic.  Also are your battery cables tight?

[Plain Jane]

It's an automatic. Assuming battery cables are tight because battery is working.

 

Also, I didn't mention this in response to an earlier post, but it *was* coasting on the highway before I even got to the exit ramp. I know this because I pressed the gas pedal and it didn't speed up (I just wanted to get to the exit quickly). 

Linda, shot of the radiator below. It's empty to me, but what do I know?

[jminshew]

Yes the radiator is either empty or low.  Fluid should be above the fins inside the radiator all the way to the top.   As for the battery,  you can have power and lights will come one, but when turning your key to the start position, the starter pulls alot of power, and if the connection is loose or weak, its possible under hard load to crank, that the connection can cause it to not maintain that load.   All you have to do is grab the positive terminal at the battery and twist it alittle to see if it moves one way or the other, the do the same thing for the negative side.  Its the not turning over or no clicking sounds that has me wondering about the starting side of things.  You can also set the park brake and put your transmission in neutral and see if it turns over.  This will test the park/neutral safety switch on the tranmission.  If that doesnt work, put the vehicle back in park.  

[Plain Jane]

Also coolant appears to be low. 

I see one small hose that's disconnected but don't know where it's supposed to connect, below. About at the center of the photo.

[jminshew]

If this is the hose your reffering to,  i can tell from the picture if this hose is connected, but it looks like enough length tonget to where my arrow is pointing

[Plain Jane]

Okay, following jminshew's instructions and putting it in neutral,  I do hear the sound a car makes before the engine turns over. 

The battery terminals are tight.

[jminshew]

The sound a car makes before the engine turns over?????   A clicking sound??? Or a single click when you turn the key to the start position to crank the engine????

[Plain Jane]

Okay, reconnected that small hose. Can I add water rather than coolant? And do I add it directly to the radiator? I've got bottled drinking water I can pour in.

 

Not sure why I'm doing these things. So I can argue with the mechanic whose property the Dolphin is on? Try to move it off the property? Is there a chance it'll start if I put water in the radiator?

[jminshew]

I dont believe putting in water will make your vehicle start.  You can add water, however it is supposed to be a 50/50 mixture of water and antifreeze/coolant to keep your engine block from cracking during freezing temps.   If you add strait water, you dillute this mixture.   

[Plain Jane]

I'm doing my best here, jminshew. Linda? WLK? any input?

 

I don't know how else to describe that sound and I can't get a recording that doesn't include the warning beep. It's a light buzzing sound.

[Scott iv]

The coolant leak is an immediate and problem in need of repair. Regardless if you get it started you do not want to drive it without tracking down the leak. 

[linda s]

Water is fine for now and you might be able to see where it's leaking. Leaking coolant on the ground is a no no. Animals will try to drink it, it's sweet, and die. Have you tried to start it since you reattached that hose. A vacuum hose off will make it not start. I also think your battery is probably too dead to start it anyway. Sorry we can't help more. 

Linda S

[Plain Jane]

Please understand, folks. The camper has spent more time being repaired than it has traveling. I poured lots of money into it when I had it to spend, but as I said in my original post I can't afford to put anything else into it right now. It will not move and unfortunately is parked on the property of an unscrupulous mechanic. Regardless of what should happen to such a deserving vehicle, there is very little I can do with it right now. My original question was what to do with it now, not how to fix it. I've taken pictures of the exterior and interior if anyone wants to see them. I don't know what else I can do today. I'm leaving the camper now and continuing with my day.

[Scott iv]

It will sell locally as a non running toyota motorhome. The motor likely isn't completely dead.  An honest post on craigslist or facebook will sell it. It is not worthless and I would try to sell it whole; not parting it out. Choose a number and post it; if no one bites for a few weeks, reduce. Hopefully you have somewhere it can sit while you list and wait. Especially if the camper is useable/ liveable/ non leaking.  

[thewanderlustking]

NO you should not run a vehicle long term with just water, but for testing and getting it down the road, just water is fine.  It is also more "environmentally responsible" if you don't have other ways of looking for a coolant leak (like the specialized tools used by mechanics and avid DIYers).  But even if you just use water and don't do a complete drain and refill later, you can correct the levels with a partial drain, a simple (and cheap) hydrometer, and concentrated coolant.    

 

And as Linda said between the lines, the hose that came off in the picture above is a vacuums hose anyways.  

 

It is frustrating for us too...  A lot is lost in translation with words and pictures that many of us I am sure could figure out with half an hour spent on the truck and either have it running, or have a solid answer/direction to go in.  My advice would be to tie the bullet and pay for a second professional opinion.  You are here posting, so I would assume you don't have a personal mechanic friend/relitive you could get either FaceTime or realtime help with.  A mobile mechanic would be a pretty feasible option.

 

Old vehicles usually have a tipping point where you finally get the critical systems all sorted out and if it is a quality built/maintained vehicle you are good once you get pass that.  If you have an older vehicle that hasn't been maintained well, then unless you can learn to do it, you will quickly go broke.  Toyotas and especially the 22RE are well built and robust though.  Even poorly maintained, it shouldn't take too much to get it back into reliable shape.    

 

As for the current situation you are in and the potentially unscrupulous mechanic, it is hard to say for sure since we aren't there, but yeah some things just aren't adding up and it does look pretty suspicious from this side of the story.  Simply put I have seen PLENTY of cars and trucks with blown head gaskets and one thing is common, I have never once in 30+ years seen a blown head gasket cause one to not run AT ALL.  Is it possible?  Sure, but the amount of catastrophic damage that needs to occur quickly is pretty impressive, and would also come with some impressive noises.  

 

I see no signs of coolant that a blown hose would leave everywhere.  So unless you had clouds of vapor that you know was hot coolant, I would be checking other things for the issue.  I think it is much more likely your fuel pump died.  But this is speculation and simple tests could quickly determine this, or narrow it down to something else.  

 

 

[WME]

Can't check over the internet, but fuel pump dead, ignitor dead. If either dies the engine stops quickly. 

Sorry but there are easy checks if you understand engines. Trying to teach/learn over the net is problematic.

If the engine cranks or turns over, but wont run, Youtube can help a bit with both possibilities, If it won't crank you have multiple layers of problems. 

Sorry not much help

[Plain Jane]

Thanks, all, for your advice. I'm selling the Dolphin. I paid $6K for it in 2021 so I'll sell it for less.

 

As easy and low-cost as it seems to be to fix, with such predictable success, it'll be interesting to see how many of you are willing to make the investment yourselves.

[linda s]

Location is what matters. When you first posted I searched for any members near you who could help and found none. Doesn't mean there aren't any Toyota motorhome lovers near you but you're going to need a wider audience. Post on Craigslist and Facebook so you can interest as many people as you can. Take pictures and post them in the ads. Make it look as nice as possible

Good luck

Linda S

[Plain Jane]

Thanks, Linda. I did spot a really nice Dolphin parked at a home about 45 mins. from me, in really good condition, but that doesn't mean the owner would be interested in buying another. Maybe I'll take a ride up next weekend and knock on their door.

[Plain Jane]

So in a last-ditch effort to identify the problem - not not NOT to save it, but to be more specific about its problems in my ad - I had the husband of a coworker check out the engine. He tried to start the engine and immediately diagnosed a broken timing belt. He said that if it had an interference engine it would have to be replaced, but if not, it might only need a new timing belt. Anyone know if it's got an interference engine?

[fred heath]

The 22RE is supposed to be a non interference engine. 20R and 22R are supposed to be interference type.

 

There seems to be a great deal of debate over this issue. Browse through yotatech and see if they have clarified this issue.

 

It would be a shame to sell it cheap and have someone replace the timing belt only to have it running correctly.

 

If you have the V-6 engine, that’s supposed to be non interference.

Edited September 9, 2023 by fred heath