Staying Warm

[new86horizon]

Hi all!

New to the forum and just picked up an 86 New Horizon.

I've got to drive it from the Northeast all the way to the West Coast.

Looks like most of the drive is going to be in the teens at night.

The RV has a 5 gallon propane tank and was wondering how many nights that'd last me? I'm a short sleeper (5-6 hours) for the most part. I'm anticipating a 6-7 day drive back. Everything's been fully resealed and such.

Any tips are appreciated!

[zero]

Hi all!

New to the forum and just picked up an 86 New Horizon.

I've got to drive it from the Northeast all the way to the West Coast.

Looks like most of the drive is going to be in the teens at night.

The RV has a 5 gallon propane tank and was wondering how many nights that'd last me? I'm a short sleeper (5-6 hours) for the most part. I'm anticipating a 6-7 day drive back. Everything's been fully resealed and such.

Any tips are appreciated!

As I recall the propane furnace will burn around a pound of propane for every 90 minutes of run time. So if it runs half the time, it will use around 3 pounds per night. If your tank is only partially filled at 15 pounds (like Blue Rhino sells) - that's 5 night's worth. If properly filled it can have 18-20 lbs. of propane in it and last longer.

[MontanaChinook]

And it depends on whether you're a warm sleeper or not.

I know people here have way more hardcore stories, but I was living out of my camper March-October last year. I spent plenty of nights out in the teens. My camper is smaller, but just being "indoors" when it's in the teens, you're gaining...what? At least 10 degrees, I'd say. So that bumps you into the 20s.

I've spent many nights camping and backpacking in a tent when it was in the 30s, and a few times 20s. Your camper, with you in it and a pilot light or two, will most likely not drop out of the 30s. A good sleeping bag will be plenty. If there are curtains it will help.

In my camper, I just slept in the bed with sheets and a large down comforter. That's it. Plenty warm.

What I do is only run the heat when I'm up. So a cycle or two through the heater a little before bed, then shut it off. Flip the heat back on first thing when I get out of bed in the morning. Or flip it on and jump back in bed for a little while it warms up

But it depends on how much you want to rough it. If your battery isn't in good shape, one night might be all the life it has to run the heater fan. If it's in good shape, you'll be fine, since it'll recharge every day while you drive. But the heater won't run if the battery is too low.

[new86horizon]

As I recall the propane furnace will burn around a pound of propane for every 90 minutes of run time. So if it runs half the time, it will use around 3 pounds per night. If your tank is only partially filled at 15 pounds (like Blue Rhino sells) - that's 5 night's worth. If properly filled it can have 18-20 lbs. of propane in it and last longer.

Thanks this puts things into perspective for me much better. Seems like I'll do just fine.

And it depends on whether you're a warm sleeper or not.

I know people here have way more hardcore stories, but I was living out of my camper March-October last year. I spent plenty of nights out in the teens. My camper is smaller, but just being "indoors" when it's in the teens, you're gaining...what? At least 10 degrees, I'd say. So that bumps you into the 20s.

I've spent many nights camping and backpacking in a tent when it was in the 30s, and a few times 20s. Your camper, with you in it and a pilot light or two, will most likely not drop out of the 30s. A good sleeping bag will be plenty. If there are curtains it will help.

In my camper, I just slept in the bed with sheets and a large down comforter. That's it. Plenty warm.

What I do is only run the heat when I'm up. So a cycle or two through the heater a little before bed, then shut it off. Flip the heat back on first thing when I get out of bed in the morning. Or flip it on and jump back in bed for a little while it warms up

But it depends on how much you want to rough it. If your battery isn't in good shape, one night might be all the life it has to run the heater fan. If it's in good shape, you'll be fine, since it'll recharge every day while you drive. But the heater won't run if the battery is too low.

Thanks for the advise I do like to sleep cooler. When camping and it's in mid 30's I'm hot in a 40 degree sleeping bag. I think I'll take your advise on running it before bed and see how things go. I appreciate your input, I'd rather dress warm then try to heat the entire place

[new86horizon]

Does anyone have any thoughts on me using this instead?

Mr. Heater Little Buddy

Would it be more cost efficient?

I have plenty of space in the sleeping area to put it.

[zero]

Does anyone have any thoughts on me using this instead?

Mr. Heater Little Buddy

Would it be more cost efficient?

I have plenty of space in the sleeping area to put it.

I've got one but I'd never use it for sleeping. Mr. Buddy is 100% efficient as far as the furnace itself goes but requires having a window cracked open. The on-board furnace is 85% efficient but does NOT require having any windows open. So when you get done, you gain nothing. The factory equipped forced-air propane furnace certainly has more safety features to protect you while sleeping.

[new86horizon]

I've got one but I'd never use it for sleeping. Mr. Buddy is 100% efficient as far as the furnace itself goes but requires having a window cracked open. The on-board furnace is 85% efficient but does NOT require having any windows open. So when you get done, you gain nothing. The factory equipped forced-air propane furnace certainly has more safety features to protect you while sleeping.

Thanks for the incite - I'm still very new to RVing as you can tell so I'm learning it all in stride. I'll stick with the furnace, besides I just need the heat until I get out of the "tundra" area so no sense in spending money when it's not necessary

[shibs]

Does anyone have any thoughts on me using this instead?

Mr. Heater Little Buddy

Would it be more cost efficient?

I have plenty of space in the sleeping area to put it.

if use a buddy or any of the radiant heat source that is not vented, you should install an O2 sensor and a CO2 sensor. I am not sure if the buddy has an O2 sensor built in.

[linda s]

Make window insulation out of reflectix. Cut to fit window and make quick attachments with stick on magnets or velcro. Do this for overhead vents too. Will keep the heat inside better. The furnace will draw quite a bit of battery power. A weak battery can go dead in the night and then no more heat. Make sure yours is strong and had the highest amp hour that will fit.

Linda S

[Gary_M]

Yeah, If I'm dry camping and need the extra heat I cook a bedtime snack in the oven. Your oven will heat the area up for at least 3 comfortable hours. Works too if I'm in a pinch and low on battery juice.

Who said the oven is a useless appliance to have around? ;-)

[jmowrey]

Make window insulation out of reflectix. Cut to fit window and make quick attachments with stick on magnets or velcro. Do this for overhead vents too. Will keep the heat inside better. The furnace will draw quite a bit of battery power. A weak battery can go dead in the night and then no more heat. Make sure yours is strong and had the highest amp hour that will fit.

Linda S

We use reflectix on all our windows and vents. We also use reflectix under the mattress on our cab-over bed. We have a piece of 2 inch memory foam on top of the existing foam mattress. I put the reflectix between the mattress and the memory foam. It makes a huge difference in the warmth level of the bed. Previously, it seemed like the cold under the mattress was sapping our body heat. We would wake up stiff and cold in the middle of the night. Now it's toasty!

Joe

[fred heath]

Two big heat loss area's are the coach door and the cab.

Throw a blanket between the coach and the cab.

This will keep more heat in the sleeping area.

[MontanaChinook]

Let us know how you end up doing.

Fred is totally right and I wish I hadn't forgotten that.

But what I was absolutely sure to do as it got towards fall last year was:

Have curtains on every window, and close them at night.

Hang a curtain (anything will work, but obviously some things insulate better than others) between the cab and coach.

And...that's really it. Isolating the sleeping area as much as possible will keep all that heat in and cold out. You would not believe how much colder the cab will be than the coach when you throw that blanket back in the morning. Just find some way to drape it over there.

I don't know the other, bigger rvs, but I'm guessing that if the cabover isn't super insulated, it's probably not the best place to sleep in cold weather. Use whatever other bed set up the thing has.

[new86horizon]

if use a buddy or any of the radiant heat source that is not vented, you should install an O2 sensor and a CO2 sensor. I am not sure if the buddy has an O2 sensor built in.

Thanks for the tip! Already have both

Make window insulation out of reflectix. Cut to fit window and make quick attachments with stick on magnets or velcro. Do this for overhead vents too. Will keep the heat inside better. The furnace will draw quite a bit of battery power. A weak battery can go dead in the night and then no more heat. Make sure yours is strong and had the highest amp hour that will fit.

Linda S

Great I'll pick up some reflectix my first stop is right next to a home depot. I should be good on batteries I think. I have two new batteries and 200 watts of solar panels so I'm hoping that'll tide me over.

Yeah, If I'm dry camping and need the extra heat I cook a bedtime snack in the oven. Your oven will heat the area up for at least 3 comfortable hours. Works too if I'm in a pinch and low on battery juice.

Who said the oven is a useless appliance to have around? ;-)

Ah the oven no longer exists in mine - kitchen remodeled!

[new86horizon]

Not sure if this is a dumb question or not, but like I said I'm learning all of this as I go. I have two batteries for the actual home area of the motor home and one battery for the truck. If the two batteries go dead does it kill my battery I use for to start the truck up too?

Edited February 19, 2015 by new86horizon

[WME]

IF the RV is wired correctly the two coach batteries are separated from the truck battery.

[Debbit]

We take along a buddy heater to use while we are awake. Then we turn the furnace on, but leave the thermostat at a low setting. Safe sleeping, and saves battery.

Agree that a curtain or blanket between cab and cabin helps.

[zero]

Not sure if this is a dumb question or not, but like I said I'm learning all of this as I go. I have two batteries for the actual home area of the motor home and one battery for the truck. If the two batteries go dead does it kill my battery I use for to start the truck up too?

Supposed to be a solid-state isolator or an IGN powered relay under the hood that separates the front cranking battery from whatever is powering the back when the engine is not running. In regard to heat - I think you're overthinking it.The on-board furnace if working properly will easily keep you warm and doesn't need much battery power tor run all night. Draws around 6 amps @ 12 volts when running. Last time we camped at night with no AC power available, we did it in a camper with a pop-up roof and part of the walls cloth. It was 20 degrees F outside and we had a 16K BTU furnace. We watched a movie on a 19" LCD TV hooked to a DVD player, then watched TV for another 2 hours . All with the thermostat set at 65 F. Then went to bed with it set at 50 F. All with just one type 27 battery from Walmart. Never got close to being run down.

[new86horizon]

In regard to heat - I think you're overthinking it.

I am totally overthinking it I think mostly because I'm in Arizona right now so it's 80 outside and looking at the weather on the east coast is making me cringe.

I appreciate all the tips from everyone! I am feeling pretty comfortable about it now and doesn't seem like it'll be too bad.

I'll let everyone know how things work out!

[Totem]

with storms generating "polar vortex", "extreme climate change", "global warming" or as us simple folks say "winter" no, you are not over thinking it. Being prepared is excellent, and very prudent in February.

I actually prefer the cab over for some reason; in my mind warm air rises and its up near the ceiling...

[zero]

I am totally overthinking it I think mostly because I'm in Arizona right now so it's 80 outside and looking at the weather on the east coast is making me cringe.

I appreciate all the tips from everyone! I am feeling pretty comfortable about it now and doesn't seem like it'll be too bad.

I'll let everyone know how things work out!

I understand the concern for heat. Just making the point that the forced-air furnaces installed OEM in these RVs do the job very nicely. Obviously when not working --not so good. What is when not working?

My first half-assed RV was a 1977 Chevy van with a Turtle top. Unlike what you are doing, I did the converse and my first planned trip was from NY (mid winter) to the Florida Keys. Silly me. I thought heat would not be a big issue once down south. First night we parked in North Carolina and it was 18 degrees F. Me, wife and 4 kids were freezing. When got to Silver Springs Florida - it was 32 degrees F. We didn't get any warm nights until we got to Little Duck Key half way to Key West.

That trip cured me forever. My 1st priority in any of my RVs is good and safe heat. If you've got a working 16K (input) BTU furnace - you'll be fine down to temps of 10 degrees F. I suggest you get an electric heater also just in case you camp where there's AC power available. They are basically make the same heat and cost less then $15 at Walmart. A 1500 watt heater can make a steady 5000 BTUs of heat and saves propane.

[MontanaChinook]

I am curious to know, of the people who cold-weather camp, and typically use their cab-over sleeping area, if it's warmer. My cab-over is useless for sleeping an adult, so I have no idea.

In my camper, the cabover is mostly hanging out over the cab, rather than on top of the roof of the cab. So it's just cold air under there. That's my thinking. But if it's insulated and you aren't getting all your heat stolen from underneath you, then yeah, the pocket of warmer air up there would make it a better place to sleep.

[Derek up North]

I don't think you'll find more than 1" to 1 1/2" of insulation on any floor, wall or ceiling on any Toyota MH. So it'll all come down to reducing volume to be heated and air infiltration.

[5Toyota]

I put the blanket up behind the seats will make a big difference I set my heat at 55 I sleep in a 6 and half pound wenzel sleeping bag rated for 0 degrees.

[Derek up North]

I think this guy's probably found a (rather unconventional) way to keep warm. Maybe cool in Arizona too!

[Totem]

welp, i look at it like this. when you go to bed and turn off the heat; the only heat left rises. Further more, cold underneath you when sleeping (air) is actually good; most cold campers suggest a layer of dead air underneath the sleeping area; so a cot, hammock etc does this nicely... why?

cold ground removes heat loss where air is an insulator. Coupled with the fact that the mattress in my cab over is still thicker and more comfy than the couch one even though its smelly and I too use excellent sleeping bag (military sleep system used by US army , 3 bags to -40) i am sweating in that thing, its my face i am concerned about right? well all the hot air will rise to the top of wherever one is at. not much higher place to go that the cab over.

I also concur with blanketing off the cab; definite must do. nope nothing is warmer than sleeping bag in the cab over with cab over privacy curtains closed and reflectix window treatments (imho). the back bed has all that cold air of the whole rig, no thanks. Cab over == warm cocoon.

[zero]

I guess I must be missing some point in this discussion. Why is there any issue? The RVs we have came with forced air furnaces (except for a few small odd-balls). If the furnaces work they have plenty of heat to stay warm when parked during a 10-20 degree F night. When awake and when sleeping. Just like most of us do in our houses in the NE and midwest.

[Maineah]

It takes about 4 hours to heat my camper to a comfortable level when it's single numbers even running a electric heater along with the furnace and it doesn't take long for it to cool off. If you are going camping in the Northern winters take a below zero sleeping bag good batteries and plenty of propane. Hyperthermia can kill you. My cut off point is no colder than 20* at night. I see no reason to beat your self up, camping is supposed to be fun. If it's a necessity be prepared in case some thing like your furnace not working when you need it the most.

[Debbit]

If the furnace works, it's great! Mine squeals a little now and then, but seems to quiet down with use. We also have a new coach battery and have used our furnace a several nights without the battery getting low. I do wonder how many nights it has in it if not driving or plugging in to charge. We use the buddy heater if the day is cold to save the battery to run the heater at night.

I think the overhead bunk is warm. It is a small space and heat rises. If our climate was colder, we'd probably put some kind of insulation in the windows up there. For us, the curtains and double sleeping bag, 2" memory foam on the stock matte rests are really comfortable.

[new86horizon]

I guess I must be missing some point in this discussion. Why is there any issue? The RVs we have came with forced air furnaces (except for a few small odd-balls). If the furnaces work they have plenty of heat to stay warm when parked during a 10-20 degree F night. When awake and when sleeping. Just like most of us do in our houses in the NE and midwest.

I'm not saying there's any issues.

It's that I'm used to camping and backpacking and first time owning an RV, so I'm curious and asking questions

Weather on the east coast right now where I have to get it inspected is going to be -15 now that I've checked the forecasts. I'd assume insulation and heat retention is a tad different then owning a house, but hey what do I know.

That's why I'm asking about staying warm, I thought the discussion makes sense so me.

Edited February 20, 2015 by new86horizon

[zero]

I've never had the issue of taking "four hours" to get RV warm. Why? Because I'm driving it before I pull over to camp. I.e. it's already warm inside from the front Toyota heater.

Just like most houses people live in, RVs have furnaces that hopefully are sized for what you want to do. If you want an arctic camper - put in a 30K BTU furnace Most 21 foot Toyotas come with 12K or 16K BTU heaters. That's more then three times more heat output then a 120 volt AC electric heater. My 1988 Minicruiser has a NT16 furance and has all the heat I need when camping in 20F weather. If set at 50 degrees F for sleeping, when it's 20F outside, it comes on around one third of the time. I.e. 20 minutes per hour.

Now if I was camping last night? It was 32 F below here last night and it's 26 below F right now. I suspect if I was in my RV the furnace would be running non-stop.

[Maineah]

Yeah that's my point granted the furnace is big but the reasoning is because a MH/camper has all the heat retention of an outhouse. We don't get warm nights up here except in July pretty much any where between -30 and mid teens over night all winter long.

[Totem]

I think the thing he did not have reading comprehension on was that you might run out of propane, have a sail switch issue or batteries get low and the thing Montana was curious on, when sleeping without the heat on where do most of us prefer to sleep, the galley bed or the cab overhead and why.

Hopefully that clears it up for him to comment... jde, wheres your preferred colder sleeping spot assuming you had a heat issue?

[Derek up North]

... when sleeping without the heat on where do most of us prefer to sleep, ...

Motel.

[zero]

I don't see how poor heat retention matters when it comes to comfort in your RV. Either is has furnace enough to keep you warm, or it does not. I've stayed plenty warm with the 16K BTU furnace in my 1988 Minicruiser. Heat output just has to equal or exceed heat loss to work well.

On that old piece-of-junk 1973 Champion Class A I used to have. It was poorly insulated and had a lot more room inside then my 21 foot Toyota. We were getting it ready to winter camp around the Ottawa River in Canada. Temps often at 0 degrees F. So I bought a brand new NT34 Suburban furnace. It damn near cooked us out of the RV even at 0 degree F temps. After getting back home after winter-camping at the Ottawa River and Sault Ste. Marie, I sold the RV since it only got 6 MPG and I was totally disgusted with it. I took that new furnace out before selling it. I still have it. Used for two weeks worth of nights and that's all. If anyone wants to buy for half-price of new, let me know. Too much for a Toyota unless you camp in severe cold. "Too big" and a furnace will cycle on and off too much.