Generator won't run AC

[markwilliam1]

As previously stated my AC unit is a Dometic Penguin 11K BTU installed in 1999. Don't know what you mean by turning it off and restarting?? The Honda ran tor hours @ a time, never shutting off of overloading. When the AC compressor would turn on the Honda would rev up briefly then settle back in ECO mode ( I kept it on the ECO mode setting the whole time) and run very quietly. I was impressed but also like Totem stated I wasn't in the mountains just big S.Ohio hills. His set-up is vastly superior to my little Honda but its all I have right to work with right now and I am happy with it's performance.

[linda s]

On 2016-08-22 at 7:21 PM, markwilliam1 said:

As previously stated my AC unit is a Dometic Penguin 11K BTU installed in 1999. Don't know what you mean by turning it off and restarting?? The Honda ran tor hours @ a time, never shutting off of overloading. When the AC compressor would turn on the Honda would rev up briefly then settle back in ECO mode ( I kept it on the ECO mode setting the whole time) and run very quietly. I was impressed but also like Totem stated I wasn't in the mountains just big S.Ohio hills. His set-up is vastly superior to my little Honda but its all I have right to work with right now and I am happy with it's performance.

Just to clear this up there is no reason you need to be driving your rig to show that the Honda runs the AC unit. Just take a video while parked with it working to shut them up.

Linda S

[Derek up North]

On 2016-08-22 at 7:21 PM, markwilliam1 said:

I am happy with it's performance.

That's all that matters and you don't have to post a video of yourself smiling (driving or stationery) for me to believe you.

[markwilliam1]

Thanks Y'all! Just trying to say that if you Already have a Honda 2000i, install the hardstart cap and give it a try. Never saying to buy a Honda 2000i and expect it to run your roof AC.:-)

[markwilliam1]

Ment to type "it's" I dislike bad grammar...sorry!

[Totem]

15 hours ago, markwilliam1 said:

I love this topic Totem. If I had known I could have gotten out of my car and videotaped that my Honda 2000i was running my roof AC while driving I could have done that numerous x's while driving steep hills in S. Ohio last week while temps were in the 90's & humidity was close to100%. Temps in my Granville were around 78. I know this isn't the mountains or high elevation but the Honda ran my AC for hours @ a time while on ECO mode and it ran flawlessly.  I understand this is rare and don't think it would work like your HF unit on your last trip though. Who knows? Thanks for all your great info and suggestions! BTW the HF 2500 predator is on sale for $369....thats cheap! Best, Mark

Ok where are you in ohio. I will come over and be your "friend" and tape it for you while you drive. I have to go to ohio soon anyway for a couple trips one of which will be in my toy. I can bring the electric watt meter also.

[zero]

7 minutes ago, Totem said:

 I have to go to ohio soon anyway for a couple trips one of which will be in my toy.

Your are actually going to Ohio on purpose?  I went there once in the 70s and got to see the bullet holes in the wall at Kent State right after the National Guard shootings. Had a few beers and they were terrible. It was some sort of watered-down 3.2 beer.  Only thing I found interesting were the big black squirrels.

[Totem]

i was just there last weekend at cedar point. speaking of which, the campground there at the park is excellent. perfectly level lots, full hookups that have intelligent layouts and the hookups light up so no need for flashlights while you setup. each lot separated by 15 foot arborvites trees as fences; super nice!

The resort gave us a set of free park passes so we will probably go again. Will be interesting what excuse I get this time on the taping proof of a 1600 running rooftop eh? I'm dead serious i will come out there to put this to bed. i'll bring beer too, enough for at least a half a days drinking so i can verify the "hours and hours"

Edited August 23, 2016 by Totem

[Maineah]

I don't believe any one said it wouldn't what they are saying it,'s not likely so if 2 out of 50 people have it working good for them just don't buy one and expect it to do the job of a 2600 watt unit. My point with the 2000 Honda with a temp of 78* inside leads me to believe the compressor never shut down because the AC was maxed out so it did not have to start against a full load. The math just isn't there. Using a Killawatt meter does not tell you much because it can not measure inrush current that's the spoiler. It is also possible that the generator was capable of a bit higher RPM than it's twin meaning it may have been capable of 2100 watts peak there are just too many variables for a border line unit.

[Totem]

30 minutes ago, Maineah said:

I don't believe any one said it wouldn't what they are saying it,'s not likely so if 2 out of 50 people have it working good for them just don't buy one and expect it to do the job of a 2600 watt unit. My point with the 2000 Honda with a temp of 78* inside leads me to believe the compressor never shut down because the AC was maxed out so it did not have to start against a full load. The math just isn't there. Using a Killawatt meter does not tell you much because it can not measure inrush current that's the spoiler. It is also possible that the generator was capable of a bit higher RPM than it's twin meaning it may have been capable of 2100 watts peak there are just too many variables for a border line unit.

except thats not what hes claiming. hes claiming 90+ degrees for hours and hours on low with compressor cycling while in eco mode.

[markwilliam1]

Ok Mr JD now ya dunnit! Firsr Kent State is my alma mater and that is where I proudly learned to drink 3.2 beer in 71 while chasing the black squirrels Man! And we really don't want people from that place called Michigan to set foot in our lovely Ohio lol!! I appreciate your offer Totem to be my "friend" but there is no point in it. Our 90 degree days are gone now and I'm not trying to convince you or any other doubters or haters about my experiences with my Honda 2000i. Was just explaining how this might work for someone if they already owned a Honda. Never suggested buying one for this purpose anywhere in my posts as that would be ridiculous! So to sum it up as Derek quoted me " I'm satisfied with its performance" for me and only me. 

 

[zero]

12 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said:

Ok Mr JD now ya dunnit! Firsr Kent State is my alma mater and that is where I proudly learned to drink 3.2 beer in 71 while chasing the black squirrels Man! And we really don't want people from that place called Michigan to set foot in our lovely Ohio lol!! I appreciate your offer Totem to be my "friend" but there is no point in it. Our 90 degree days are gone now and I'm not trying to convince you or any other doubters or haters about my experiences with my Honda 2000i. Was just explaining how this might work for someone if they already owned a Honda. Never suggested buying one for this purpose anywhere in my posts as that would be ridiculous! So to sum it up as Derek quoted me " I'm satisfied with its performance" for me and only me. 

 

 

No real insult intended. I was kidding.  I was at Kent State just after the shooing but it wasn't my choice.  I was a long-hair idiot hitch-hiking back from California.  A VW bus full of hippies picked me up and insisted at stopping at Kent State to see the bullet marks in the wall and whine and complain with their incense burning. Looked like some of them had not recovered from Woodstock yet. So I was there, and also did NOT like the 3.2 beer - but that was  almost 50 years ago.  I camped in Ohio last year and had a big surprise.   We were coming back from a trip to Kentucky and not long after we got into Ohio - there were some beautiful places along the Ohio River.  I was joking with my wife saying "are you sure this is really Ohio?"   We camped in a totally empty rural campground (note it was very early spring and cold). that was Beaver Creek State Park. The next morning - we started to drive and found out we were right near a bunch of nuclear power plants.   By the way, I like black squirrels. I don't know what they were in Ohio - but here we have the little red squirrels in black, as well as the bigger grey squirrels in black.  Now my daughter??   She moved out of central New York to Bowling Green, Ohio.  After a year - she got weirded out and moved back to NY.  She said people in that area were just TOO different then those in NY.  Note she did not say they were "worse."  Just different and of her medical co-workers did not warm up to her very well (as she tells the story).  

[markwilliam1]

I'm teasing you also Brother! Kent State was quite the place back in the 70's. Had a bar every 50' it seemed but boy could we drink the 3.2 beer Man!  Ah, the good old days of Hippieness. BTW the black squirrels were imported from Canada when Kent was becoming a university. Over the years they have migrated many miles from Kent and now we have black squirrels everywhere! Never been to Michigan though. When I get my Toy totally restored maybe soon. Ohio does have some very beautiful places including the Cuyahoga Valley National Park where I volunteer and is only minutes away from my home in Cuyahoga Falls. Take Care!

[Totem]

I believe the Ohioans never truley got over that beating they took over the land squabble in Toledo. If my historical memory serves Ohio and Michigan were the only two states in US history to shoot at each other in a "war" over land; I believe Michigan won that "war" also and thats why our state juts in the bottom right hand corner a bit into Ohio.

Don't get me wrong, Ohio is my birthplace, but I wised up and moved to Michigan where they have better beer (such as that served at the Dark horse in Marshall)

Really, I would have been willing to come visit and witness this miracle of honda sorcery and record it first hand along with myself eating crow. But if not then the crow is still flying and alas I can still flap my belief to not believe in the unicorn at this time, no offense.

[markwilliam1]

No offense taken Totem! I love your posts and sense of humor Sir. Perhaps I may find myself in Beautiful Michigan next summer on a hot day and I could stop over and show you some sorcery, would like to meet you:-)! But the reality is after this last week summer boondocking in HOT S. Ohio with my 2 pups trapped in my Toy home in 90 degree weather and constant rain totally sucked...even the fish weren't biting but my beer was Cold! There was a family camped @ least 200-300 yards away with the loudest generator I ever heard!! They ran it all day till 11PM. I walked by their site and you couldn't even think..it was ridiculous Man! Couldn't hear anything but that racket. If that's how it is when you boondock I don't want to do it again! This is an old abandoned stip mine area that was reclaimed. I stopped by the camp host and talked to this little old lady with 1 front tooth and asked her about loud generators. She said she has heard some even louder and just tries to block it out....How??? I might start a post on loud generators and get others opinions unless it has already been discussed. Take Care 'Bro!

[Totem]

No worries, I'm not easily offended and I get it about the boondocking.

The only times i boondock are when i am enroute somewhere else that has hookups. Having little kids means i need full service camping usually. Now sometimes when wife and i do trips and drop kids at grandmas we will get adventurous but i feel ya. My cousin had an eu2000i that started my rooftop 13500 (with supco cap installed) on my rig. it absolutely would not start it in eco mode ever. That was in Pennsylvania in the mountains and high heat and humidity like 89 degrees i think or so.

That being said we gave it the "smoke test" and lit a smoke. it went into overload before the cig was done. Henceforth I've been loathe to think the 1600 watt wonder can hang but maybe in your case with the 11,000 it does better.

 

[Klein]

Thank you all for recommendations for my setup. Unfortunately still does not work.

(the Duotherm dial does not let me go from fan directly to low cool, it has to go thru off position. Also the gen throttle screw seems so weird positioned that I could not easily reach with a screwdriver and I wont take apart the generator)

- kept original start cap, turned off converter breaker (draws 3 amps and 60-70w), measured to ensure no other parasite draws any current, let predator run for >5 minutes, turned the thermostat to warm, turned dial to low cool, gen reved up, AC motor tries to start, gen overload 

- same as above with spp6 replacing original start cap, only difference the ac motor did not even budge

- same as first bullet with spp6 piggy back on original start cap, ac did not budge

- spp6 works with house connection, starts AC, I have the impression the original start cap is better than spp6 in my case

- same as first bullet, with original cap, turned the thermostat to 2 (next position after low), darn ac starts :(....draws about 1400w when running at max cool and high fan; tried to repeat the process after 5 minutes....gen overload:(

Gen voltage 120, amps about 12 through this process. O watched the killawat but did not see how much it drew to start. Not top of line measure tool anyway.

Outside temp 85 at sea level. 

Since I am not expert, I would not replace AC myself with a more efficient unit. Price to replace by dealer over 1200$, add 500$ the gen, I get to $2000 for darn ac when drycamping. (I paid less than 8000 for the MH :):)

Might try a champion 3100w, who knows...

Edited August 25, 2016 by Klein

[markwilliam1]

So now I'm very confused. You state the Predator 2500 (isn't that the gen your using?) cannot run your roof AC but it works perfectly for Totem and his rig. Isn't yours a 11K Dometic? I have an 11k Dometic and a Honda 2000i and for some reason the Honda runs my roof AC and it's not supposed to. BTW I do not have the Honda in ECO when 1st starting the AC. After the AC compressor kicks in I then put the Honda in ECO mode and it runs for hours....not recommending the Honda 2000i for this purpose as its only a 1600 watt unit. The Only difference I see is I bought the hard start cap made by Dometic Not Supco. The Dometic version was $50 vs. $8 for the Supco.  Could that be the difference?? Beware if you buy that Champion! It will be so loud you won't be able to think! I'm so confused.

[Totem]

I have absolutely no knowledge of Dometic AC controller; I am assuming it has a thermostat and the thought is that you would turn it all the way to hot; so that a call to the compressor does not happen yet, then you dial it to cold. Of course this is how the coleman controllers are, so on the dometic I defer to Mark on how his start up procedure is.

As far as the idle screw, yes its at a weird angle, i got to it though with a screwdriver but it was a bit of a weird angle. cant remember if i used a short stubby screwdriver or an angled one as i no longer have my idle cranked up;

As to the AC costing that much, thats because you need the controller also. I know a place online that will sell it for $800 complete I think but my shipping cost was kept down because i had them ship to my work to a commercial dock where we have forks. commercial ship is half price as domestic.

How old is the AC unit? as they age they get harder to start. Its also possible you got a bad supco cap.

Even though you have the 11k dometic, its still not the low power one; the draw is high so the higher idle just might get it; but again this story is reminding me of my old 13500 it was a PAIN to start. I would have to try it, and try it and try it. the trick for me was to try it and listen for that generator to kick and let it keep trying for a coupl,e seconds but I would back it off before the overload occured. Its sort of like playing a video game, your timing is everything.

That way you dont have to keep going back out to shut it down and restart it (the generator)

I remember now..the screwdriver i had put in a vice and bent it. i had plenty of them as i get free ones from HF every time i go.

 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Totem

[Maineah]

Don't piggy back the caps, the Killawatt will not measure inrush current and is only good to 1800 watts if the generator has a idle switch turn it off do not use any kind of extension. If you are drawing 1400 watts running your inrush will be at least 200% above that so some thing in the 2800 watt range so if it struggles at all your done.

[markwilliam1]

Yes Totem, my Dometic controller is like your Coleman and I use the same start up procedure as you. I know my 11K is not the power saver version either but for the life of me I cannot understand why his 2500 watt HF Predator cannot run the same type of roof AC as I have using my little Honda 1600. Do you guys think his generator might be defective??

[Totem]

He may have damaged it from not following proper break in i suppose; but remember even though it could be exact same model AC doesnt mean they are the exact same; just like some peoples hondas will start them and some wont.

If you know anyone in the Hvac business you can ask them and they will tell you some ACs are stubborn starters and blow breakers etc etc. whats the age of the unit? whats its history>? does it have damage from hitting something on the roof such as a parking structure? etc etc. there are several variables. My suspicion is that the AC is a hard start AC and needs a better cap, higher wattage generator or both. Of course I am sure the unicorn worshippers are setting me up and the next post will be he miraculously bought a honda eu1000i 900 watt genny and it starts it and trash talk on predator but hey we all know who posted video of the thing running AC while driving freeways and who wont video.

In fact mtdave is the only other guy in here to post video of his genny AC combo running, so kudos to him. Its a dark art this Genny AC business.

[markwilliam1]

Thats pretty good Bro' thanks for your insight! "Dark Art":-):-)

[jjrbus]

Again sorry to hear it does not work, very frustrating!   The hard start capacitors are touted as a magic bullet for starting AC's with a small genset and worth a try.   From my observations you had about a 25% chance of it working with a 13.5k.  The 500% increase in starting torque just does not pass a sniff test with no technical data available. 

On one hand you do not have to be an "expert" to replace an AC, it is not brain surgery. A strong back helps.   There are independent RV people around or even a recommended handy man who would be happy to do the labor for a 100 dollar bill. I'm still stuck in 1990 prices so maybe more today.  If you were in this area I would help you with it for dinner. 

On the other hand there is not enough reports of the Chinese clones running 11k high efficiency roof airs to spend my money on. 

Speaking of money if it were my money, the Champion 3100 is the cheapest, better more dependable option.  It is bigger, heavier, it is louder, but has a far greater chance of working all the time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/252502556377?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

 

 

 

                                                                                                                                                                               

[Totem]

i have a 9000 watt jobsite generator that will run my homes central AC its so powerful. has a 20 hp briggs on it ; i paid about the same for it that i did the predator; and its not lightweight at all. the 3100's are a couple notches down in size weight from that but you would need a trailer to tow it. Theres a guy in this forum that did a nice write up on the mini generator trailer he bought to tote around his precious honda eu3000i and camping gear with. was a nice little trailer, like a motorcycle one. great setup.

[zero]

I just got done reading a tech article titled "UP your RV current for air-conditioning."  Note it is dated July, 1970.  I find it kind of fascinating since many specs are listed for under-the-hood generator to run AC. Note the popular AC units for RVs were 6K and 10K BTUs.  I was going to scan and post -but I suspect not many find this stuff as interesting as I do, and scanning and compressing images is work.

The smallest self-contained generators recommended are 2.5 KW unitls with 3000 watts surge-rating from Onan and Kohler.  Note the Kohler has a 24 cubic inch engine and the Onan a 25 cubic inch engine.  
Note that the Honda 2000i only has a 6 cubic inch engine.

The under-the-hood generators run from 1500 watts to 5500 watts.  Note that the 1500 watt unit is rated for a 2000 watt surge (like the Honda 2000i) and is recommended for a 6K BTU air-conditioner max.
 

[markwilliam1]

Thanks JD, I often wonder why any of our rigs need an13.5K AC. I've only been traveling in my Granville this year and only in Ohio so far. But my 11K AC gets So Cold I can't imagine needing a bigger unit. My gosh, they're mostly only 21' and smaller. Is location important need a bigger unit? I'm glad I have the little 11K unit otherwise I know my little Honda wouldn't work @ all! Thoughts anyone??

[Derek up North]

15 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said:

I often wonder why any of our rigs need an13.5K AC.

I suspect one-upmanship in the showroom.  Same as do we really need a 4 burner stove (vs 3 or 2)? An oven and a microwave (or any)? 3 sinks?

[markwilliam1]

Never thought about that Derek. Why the heck do I need 4 burners?? I'm not a chief but my oven comes in handy storing the 4 burner tops to keep them from rattling lol! I do have the single sink so I have more counter space though.

[WME]

There is a simple answer $$$$ or do without A/C, sorry.

Weird possibility the Predator is not up to specs. A killawatt meter and 20 100w light bulbs will tell you. (Load bank) Don't even know if 100w bulbs are even still available.

[Derek up North]

9 minutes ago, WME said:

Weird possibility the Predator is not up to specs.

You mean the Predator 1900?

[Totem]

theres also the possibility he cooked the generator when he ran it full barrel without proper break in period; and its clearly in the instruction manual thats also posted on the website; not sure why he didnt see it.

Do honda's have break in period when new or do they come pre broken in from the elves that make them?

[zero]

Anybody ever investigated how the new Roadtrek E-Trek air-conditioning works?  It is not available with any stand-alone generator.  Only with solar panels on the roof and an under-the-hood 3500 watt generator, along with an alternator rated at 3000 watts.   Air-conditioners available are either an 11K BTU that runs on 120 volts AC, or a 30K BTU unit that runs on 12 volts DC.     Sounds like it must be able to run that 30K BTU air-conditioner with what is under the hood?

[jjrbus]

1 hour ago, jdemaris said:

I just got done reading a tech article titled "UP your RV current for air-conditioning."  Note it is dated July, 1970.  I find it kind of fascinating since many specs are listed for under-the-hood generator to run AC. Note the popular AC units for RVs were 6K and 10K BTUs.  I was going to scan and post -but I suspect not many find this stuff as interesting as I do, and scanning and compressing images is work.

The smallest self-contained generators recommended are 2.5 KW unitls with 3000 watts surge-rating from Onan and Kohler.  Note the Kohler has a 24 cubic inch engine and the Onan a 25 cubic inch engine.  
Note that the Honda 2000i only has a 6 cubic inch engine.

The under-the-hood generators run from 1500 watts to 5500 watts.  Note that the 1500 watt unit is rated for a 2000 watt surge (like the Honda 2000i) and is recommended for a 6K BTU air-conditioner max.
 

I always appreciate your posts, much of it is interesting. No need to post details I can always go look if I am that interested!  Now you send me off on another search to see where 2000 watt surge  is recommended for a 6k unit max, I missed that one!

Can't help but wonder, if the 2000 watts is for a 1970 AC unit and were they higher watt draws?       Jim

[zero]

1 minute ago, jjrbus said:

I always appreciate your posts, much of it is interesting. No need to post details I can always go look if I am that interested!  Now you send me off on another search to see where 2000 watt surge  is recommended for a 6k unit max, I missed that one!

Can't help but wonder, if the 2000 watts is for a 1970 AC unit and were they higher watt draws?       Jim

I have no specs on those older AC units. My guess is - they are little different then what is out there now as far as current per BTU goes.  Lots of new stuff is advertised with a lot of hype.  A  motor is a motor and a compressor is a compressor.  Granted there are ways to make newer units start easier- but with the rest? I really do not know. I DO know this (and it still pisses me off).  Back a few years ago the power company was giving incentives to buy new refrigerators and freezers since the new ones are SO much more efficient.  So, I replaced a 1948 International Harvester chest-freezer that looked like a submarine but still worked perfect.  I checked power usage on it before I junked it.  Guess what?  My new freezer - in the long run - uses almost exactly the same power.  

The older AC units I see ads for back late 60s, early 70s are the Duo-Therm Briske-Aire XL (the bigger one) and the Armstrong TAC-106 in a 6K BTU model and a TAC-210 in a 10K BTU model.