Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) I have found the reason the predator inverter does not work fore him. It arrived in my mail yesterday - in the form of the HF catalog. The current model predator inverterĀ of 2016 is a honda eu2000i clone and at 2000/1600 watts. They no longer have the 2500 watt beast that I have anymore. So Derek, et all, get a good fork for that slow-roasted crow you get to eat. And NOW I would agree to return that thing and encourage that you just had a preview of what the honda would do also. For those just catching up the older version of the predator was 2500 peak 2200 running with a larger motor. I am officially recommending a Honda EU3000i or Yamaha hi current inverter; or if you can still find the chinese 2500 clone of the older HF predator at 2500 watts Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) and as a side bet/in your face ... the new predator inverter now sports exact same specs as the honda eu2000i even the dbs. LOL looks like they've been reading these threads. I mean wow, it even LOOKS exactly like a honda.. but half price. even has eco mode. Damn shame JJrbus is too sensitive to read my posts; this one would have him even more steamed. LOL Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) behold...your honda clone. I'm betting that BrynnCass got one of these and then wondered why it wouldnt work... Ā Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 On 8/25/2016 at 3:01 PM, Totem said: theres also the possibility he cooked the generator when he ran it full barrel without proper break in period; and its clearly in the instruction manual thats also posted on the website; not sure why he didnt see it. Do honda's have break in period when new or do they come pre broken in from the elves that make them? Ā 1 hour ago, Totem said: behold...your honda clone. I'm betting that BrynnCass got one of these and then wondered why it wouldnt work... Ā What 's this?Ā http://www.harborfreight.com/2500-peak2200-running-watts-47-hp-125cc-portable-inverter-generator-61169.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Totem said: and as a side bet/in your face ... the new predator inverter now sports exact same specs as the honda eu2000i even the dbs. LOL looks like they've been reading these threads. I mean wow, it even LOOKS exactly like a honda.. but half price. even has eco mode. Damn shame JJrbus is too sensitive to read my posts; this one would have him even more steamed. LOL Funny I could not find any info as far as noise levels etc. mind showing us a link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, Maineah said: Funny I could not find any info as far as noise levels etc. mind showing us a link? Right on the product page just need to scroll down on the specifications.Ā 66dB but at what load? Product Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Maineah said: Ā What 's this?Ā http://www.harborfreight.com/2500-peak2200-running-watts-47-hp-125cc-portable-inverter-generator-61169.html That would be the OLD one; they are purging stock of them and the 2000/1600 is the replacement model. The odds are better than good thats what they bought (the new one). If you are like me and on their mailing list, the 2500 doesn't even show up in the catalog anymore. Only the 2000 does. If you want specs just click on the specs tab on the site. Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 32 minutes ago, Totem said: That would be the OLD one; they are purging stock of them and the 2000/1600 is the replacement model. The odds are better than good thats what they bought (the new one). If you are like me and on their mailing list, the 2500 doesn't even show up in the catalog anymore. Only the 2000 does. If you want specs just click on the specs tab on the site. "Sound rating (dB)Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā 66dB" "Sound rating (dB)Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā 64dB" Ā Ā As is so often the case, the 'forget' to mention little details like at what load and what distance! If anyone has come across one, I'd be interested in seeing an independent test comparing the the various contenders under identical conditions. A couple of dB might look like a lot on paper unless you're familiar with logarithmic scales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 If I remember correctly and increase of 10db doubles the perceived sound level and an increase of 3db Ā doubles the power requirement. So a generator running @ 58db would be much quieter than a generator running @ 64db but not twice as quiet?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 18 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said: If I remember correctly and increase of 10db doubles the perceived sound level and an increase of 3db Ā doubles the power requirement. So a generator running @ 58db would be much quieter than a generator running @ 64db but not twice as quiet?? You are mixing up a couple of things if I am guessing right.Ā The 10dB is an approximate if taken as auditory perception.Ā Human hearing is not however linear, so frequency plays a part in that perception.Ā Interesting reading when getting into the physiology of the ear.Ā The human ear has a built in compression mechanism controlled primarily by the outer hair cells of the cochlea.Ā Sound to nerve impulses only have a dynamic range of about 50dB but we can hear over 120dB of dynamic range because of this compression.Ā Hence the field of Psycho-acoustics which is not a term about me talking acoustics. Sound at distance, you see energy loss (sound) at 6db for every doubling of distance.Ā So sound measured at 56dB at one meter would be 50dB at two meters and 46dB at four meters without things like resonant surfaces and reflective reinforcement.Ā So when rating the gen set it is important to know not only what the sound level under load is but also the distance of measurement.Ā The power requirement part has more to do with speaker amplification.Ā Here it takes double the amplifier power for every 3dB of acoustic gain.Ā So not generator power just to make that clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) funny, i never see Honda mention what load or distance in their DB specifications either. I did provide in here a thread from research that showed they weren't as quiet as everyone seems to claim; and also i question why certain folks feel the need to further sound proof them in special cabinets that were initially intended to prevent theft if they are so very quiet while trying to power a 20 amp load of a rooftop. To me those actions speak to two truths, they are loud when under high load, exceptionally over priced. Ā My hillbilly ratchet strapped 2500 from HF never once was molested in the 3 years I've been strapping it to the rear bumper, and I actually travel all over the USA every year with our toy and have stayed in some more "urban" settings than just my driveway.. Maybe if I put a honda sticker on it it will get stolen. Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/manuals/EU Series Specs.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 source? and what is the "rated" load? is it a load that would run a 13500 or 11000 rooftop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The source is included in my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) i see no Honda source, just some DB numbers. Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Try looking at my post AGAIN. All I see for your Predator 1900 is a generic "64dB". Got any more complete numbers anywhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 The numbers I listed were at full load, so its an apples to apples comparison. HOWEVER bearing in mind the old saying "that figures don't lie, but liars can figure" I was unable to find any info on distance of the measurement. Onan does listĀ noise, distanceĀ and load. The Microlite 2800 is 70 db @10 ft with a 50% load.Ā P.S. The National Park Service noise requirement for legal use in a national park is 60 db @ 50 ft (15m). So reversing Dons distance formula gives you an idea why when Joe Smoo fires up his "legal" Ā job site generator you have to leave the neighborhood. Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, WME said: The numbers I listed were at full load, so its an apples to apples comparison. HOWEVER bearing in mind the old saying "that figures don't lie, but liars can figure" I was unable to find any info on distance of the measurement. Onan does listĀ noise, distanceĀ and load. The Microlite 2800 is 70 db @10 ft with a 50% load.Ā P.S. The National Park Service noise requirement for legal use in a national park is 60 db @ 50 ft (15m). So reversing Dons distance formula gives you an idea why when Joe Smoo fires up his "legal" Ā job site generator you have to leave the neighborhood. Ā That figures to about 84dB at one meter for the park service requirement to be legal.Ā Not a very quiet generator.Ā (Edit: 84dB is close enough) Edited August 31, 2016 by Back East Don Re-did the math feet to meters, close enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, Derek up North said: Try looking at my post AGAIN. All I see for your Predator 1900 is a generic "64dB". Got any more complete numbers anywhere? after refreshing the page i now see the link. sites acting up today. No matter; i will never have more complete numbers as i have no interest in owning a light duty generator of any brand and trying to make it run rooftop ACs. Light duty meaning it weighs less than 50 lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, WME said: The numbers I listed were at full load, so its an apples to apples comparison. HOWEVER bearing in mind the old saying "that figures don't lie, but liars can figure" I was unable to find any info on distance of the measurement. Onan does listĀ noise, distanceĀ and load. The Microlite 2800 is 70 db @10 ft with a 50% load.Ā P.S. The National Park Service noise requirement for legal use in a national park is 60 db @ 50 ft (15m). So reversing Dons distance formula gives you an idea why when Joe Smoo fires up his "legal" Ā job site generator you have to leave the neighborhood. Ā I'm quite sure the "59" dB is a lie when in context of running a rooftop AC.Ā Also I am positive the ranger would kick you out running it to run one. "rated load" according to what I have read is 1600 watts for the honda at nominal. We all know that the load to run the AC is MUCH higher than that. Edited August 31, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 17 minutes ago, Totem said: I'm quite sure the "59" dB is a lie when in context of running a rooftop AC.Ā Well, be sure to let us know when you have any actual proof of the 'lie' in any context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 I could, but Honda would have me executed before it could be public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 An interesting site:- http://padgett.performanceresearch.us/so/shootout.htm With videos, for those that feel the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 6 hours ago, Derek up North said: An interesting site:- http://padgett.performanceresearch.us/so/shootout.htm With videos, for those that feel the need. Nice find, thanks for posting.Ā Ā Ā Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) At last... vindcation: " Altitude considerations: At 10,000 feet a generator's output is reduced by about 30%. Only the Predator has sufficent power to be expected to reliably run the Air Con at this altitude with the nominally 2200W continuous reduced to 1550W. The AirCon will still require about 1450W to run. " Ā " Note: All generators have had an appropriate breakin period and oil changed to Mobil 1 full synthetic: 10W-30 for the Honda and Predator, 15w-40 for the Westpro per specification. " Ā Seems I am the guy with the correct science here. Ā Thank you Derek. PS... econ mode CAN be disabled on the predator. the writer of this apparently was unaware. JDE already posted how to, and I also learned that a simple increase on the idle throttle screw will also negate econ. On the other units he turns off econ with a switch.. gee what have i been saying all this time.. my cousins absolutely would not start in econ. SO there you have it. You may disable the econ on the board or with the screw; and hands down you will have the power at all elevations with the predator, along with the ability to have 750 watts in reserve for the converter to charge your house battery and run your fridge in 12 volt if desired. Whats more; you will have the cash in your wallet to buy those things the writer of this article used to cheat his way into running a 13500 rooftop AC of old age. Personally I went with an powersaver AC and a predator so that I have far more reserve than a measly 750 watts and my fridge runs in 110 volt mode off of the main. My solution did not require the $318 and $40 gadgets but I did spend $800 on an AC and have the ultimate setup, that runs in eco mode 100% of the time at all altitudes. meh. I'd like to see a Honda or westinghouse run an AC unit on high while cooking a pizza on a electric rotating pizzaz pizza oven... because mine did in 88 degrees at Cedar point a couple weeks ago. The pizza was excellent. Ā Edited September 1, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Thanks Don, Derek & Totem! Looks like I'll try the soft start kit next year and then be able to cruise in the mountains like Totem with my little Honda 2000! ToĀ bad they discontinued the Predator 2500. Wonder why? Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 PS that pizza looks great Man! Now I'm hungry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 30 minutes ago, markwilliam1 said: Thanks Don, Derek & Totem! Looks like I'll try the soft start kit next year and then be able to cruise in the mountains like Totem with my little Honda 2000! ToĀ bad they discontinued the Predator 2500. Wonder why? Ā unfortunately you will not ever be able to start yor system in the mountains according to that article above 10,000 your honda will fail even with the trickery. It should be noted in that article that the Honda suffered random stalls in the testing also; a stall while driving is unacceptable and not generally desirable while sleeping either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Totem said: Thank you Derek. You're welcome. Selectively quoting can be just as misleading as statistics. I recommend that anyone interested in the topic read the whole thing. " I suspect the Predator may have had a triple wammy in responding to a sudden load: lowest starting voltage, longest stroke, and no way to turn off "ECON". This could explain why the largest generator had the hardest time starting the AC without the soft starter ..." " There are a number of other means that could be used to allow a 2200W (continuous) generator to support a 4,000W momentary load at 10,000 feet (like a small turbosupercharger good for about 5 psi boost) ..." " The Predator was also the only one not to have a switchable "ECON" settingĀ ..." " Reliability Experienced: Probably the Honda. It has needed nothing since I bought it other than regular maintenance and one cleaning of old gas. Reliability is a major selling point and you pay for it. OTOH both the WestPro and the Predator have been replaced under warranty though in fairness i doubt that the Westpro needed any more than the carb cleaned. " " Pricing and cost: The Predator is the lowest priced but also has the shortest guarantee (90 days) I would strongly suggest a one or two year additional service contract. " " I also purchased a Predator thinking that the specs looked more capable than the Honda. I was not entirely correct. " " No starts were seen on all three at various times just more often on the Predator ...: ETC, ETC, ETC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I'm so glad I have no need to run the AC in my camper. Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) you can add a no questions asked 3 year warranty to the predator for $36. Junk and biased reporting on both the article and you. as mentioned the econ mode is the issue when trying to run a 13500. Ive been there, i just cranked my throttle up; that cost me exactly 0 dollars and was easy to do right in the maintenance panel of 1 bolt; a panel you are to inspect the air filter in regularly as well as change the oil. Clearly the author didnt bother with that however. Earlier in the generator saga, some people were as crass as to say that they would "put their honda" up against any other generator. -I'm your huckleberry- I've offered to have a challenge and even drive to Ohio. The next rally I attend we are welcome to square off the generators and setups. I'd gladly meet someone at 10,000 feet and square off also. I will wager on my setup against any honda setup as long as you have a rooftop AC unit thats 110. You can even have a PS edition. Ā keep in mind part of the challenge will be load; microwave AND AC? no problem. Anyone claiming that on a honda? Ā Ā Ā Edited September 1, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwilliam1 Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 Your totally correct Totem. Don't know how you can even compare a 2500 watt generator to a 2000 watt generator. Don't know if my rig can even go to 10000 ' and if it could I surely wouldn't need roof AC way up there:-):-)! Ā Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) I doubt yours works at 0 at all or longer than 30 minutes at best, but thats ok, you've got your story. I read it. My doubt is mine to keep unless proven otherwise. in the smokies and most east coast passes ou are down 15% of output.Ā 1360 watts in 97 in the smokies wont work. and not even with the cheater devices. Edited September 1, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Totem said: you can add a no questions asked 3 year warranty to the predator for $36. Junk and biased reporting on both the article and you. 3 years? Funny, HF fails to mention it. Or the cost. Got a video? "Junk and biased"? I don't see that in his testing, unless your definition includes anything that doesn't slam Honda and praise the Predator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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