1988dolphin Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Good Morning I have a 1988 dolphin / 22RE engine with 51K miles / A43D transmission / 4.10 rear axle gear ratio. I have the typical issues; first gear not low enough for hills, OD to high. I have read in forums that a rear axle gearing change would be advantageous Has anyone done this? Any kick the right direction would be great. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Good Morning I have a 1988 dolphin / 22RE engine with 51K miles / A43D transmission / 4.10 rear axle gear ratio. I have the typical issues; first gear not low enough for hills, OD to high. I have read in forums that a rear axle gearing change would be advantageous Has anyone done this? Any kick the right direction would be great. Thanks Yes, I did it. What exactly do you want to know? I used a new 4.56 ring and pinion which seems to be the best all-around ratio for a 20-21 footer with a A43D trans. Makes more power in 1st and makes OD usable. My rig is a 1988 Minicruiser, 2.4 FI engine. You need a ring & pinion and also an adapter speedometer gearbox to make the speedometer and odometer work right when done. Takes some work to set up the new gears and an install kit with a new gasket and crush-collar is essential. You might get lucky and find a complete used Hotchkiss center-section with the 4.56 gears - but not so common. Then there is also the problem of buying a used center-section without knowing if it has problems, makes weird noises, etc. I would NEVER buy a used rear unless it came out of a vehilce I was able hear run first. Note that if buying new gears for your job - they come in "off road" and "on road" versions. The "off road" is cheaper because they are factory seconds and will often howl at high speeds. NOT something you want in an RV. So if buying used beware. Gears from mud-boggers and off-road trucks often have the cheaper noisy gears that will drive you nuts in a rig driven @ 60 MPH on the highway. Yukon highway version 4.56 to 1 ring & pinion - $230-$250 part # YG T7 5-456 Yukon install kit with seals, crush collar, gear marking compound $32 Speedo adapter gearbox - $75 If you don't set up the gears yourself - God knows who you will find to do it and how much lablor they will charge you. It MUST be done right or it will make noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thanks for your answers. I plan on buying all new parts and having a professional install the parts. The RV was given to me so I can afford to put some money into it. Where did you look up the parts? Again Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yukon Gear seems to be the most prominent supplier for Toyota rear axle gears and parts. Yukon does not sell direct, so you have go through a dealer. Your rig has a 7.5" rear often called the "four cylilnder" rear. The 3 liter V6 has a slight different 8" rear. Yukon's main site is here: https://www.yukongear.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=1110 Here are a few dealers: http://www.ronsmachiningservice.net/ring-pinions/toyota/toyota-7-5/yg-t7-5-456-toyota-7-5-4-56-ring-and-pinion-yukon-gear-set/ http://www.alldrivelines.com/yg-t7-5-456-high-performance-yukon-ring-pinion-gear-set-for-toyota-7-5-in-a-4-56-ratio/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I thought the switch to 8" happened long before 1988. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I thought the switch to 8" happened long before 1988. The so-called "8" V6" rear with four pinion diff. came out around 1985 as far as I know. The four-cylinder 8" rear with two pinion diff. came out earlier. I have trouble with the terminology used for Toyota rears. The four-cylinder "8" rears are sometimes called "7.8" rears - so who the heck knows? I suspect part of the problem is because the ring gear measures 7.8" on back and 8" on the front. The 7.5" rear, as I recall, is the one Toyota dumped after model year 1974, and switched to the 7.8" to beef up the Chinook camper which was still a Toyota Corporate project at the time. Regardless, I should of said the 1988 Toyota RV needs a 7.8" rear (or call it 8"), not a 7.5" rear. My mistake. I went out and looked at the Yukon box my gears came in for my 1988 four-cylinder, two-pinion rear. Ring & Pinion kit is Yukon part # MK-T8A. Install kit is part # 12072. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Sorry for my confusion with part numbers. The box my ring and pinion came in does not match what Yukon shows on their site. So - I looked up what I got on my old desktop computer. The ring & pinion for my 1988 is Yukon part # YG-T8-456 The install kit is Yukon part # MK-T8A The factory imperfect ring & pinion set from Yukon is sold as U.S. Standard brand name with part # ZG-T8-456. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 No problem about the part numbers. I broke down the numbers on the identification plate that was mounted in on the back of the engine compartment. The number (G292) breaks down as (G = 8 inch gear / 29 = 4.10 gearing / 2 = open differential). Just curious did you do the install of the ring and pinion yourself or did you have a shop do it? If you did do it how much of a challenge was it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 You've got the 7.8" or 8" (same thing) diff, open as you said, and with only two differential pinions. V6 rear and some turbos have four. I did it myself but I've done many before (I was a heavy equipment and diesel mechanic for many years). It's not something the average "prof" mechanic in an auto repair shop will know how to do, So yes - I'd say it would be a challenge to someone who does not have a lot of mechanical experience. You need a press to take things apart. You also have two pairs of adjustable bearings that the preload must be set correctly (pinion and differential bearings). That part is not all that difficult. The hardest part is proper gear mesh. The pinion gear sits at a 90 degree angle to the ring gear and it's position (fore or aft) is critical to get a finished unit that runs quietly and does not howl at high speeds. That final depth gets determined by a shim pack and is measured with gear marking compound. That marking compound used to be generically called "Prussian Blue." A tube of it comes with the install kit. You first install the gears by "eye", then coat with the marking compound, and then run them and see what sort of gear-mesh pattern evolves. There are charts to show you what the correct pattern looks like. On big pieces of heavy equipment, the job is easier then with the little Toyota. On the big stuff, like farm tractors, log skidders, tractor-trucks - the new gears come with numbers stamped on them that tell you what thickness of shim pack to use. Nothing like that on the little Toyota. I use the old shim pack from the original gears as a starting point. Then mark the gears and check. Takes some trial and error to get it right. This is why many people along with some repair shops prefer to install assembled used center-sections from junkyards. No setup involved. Problem is, yoiu rarely know the condition of the assembled unit when you buy. Cars and trucks with rear wheel drive tend to come with two different types of drive-axles. Hotchkiss and Salisbury. Hotchkiss has a differential sub-assembly that you can remove intact with all the bearings and gears in place. That's what Toyota and many Ford trucks use. Other makes like GM with Salisbury rears have no unit to remove and any gear work or setup must be done in-place. So the Toyota is handy in the respect that you can easily swap entire center drive units withlout takiing them apart. Or - for new gears - remove the center assembly and take to someone to install. If if was a Salisbury GM or Jeep, you'd have to bring the entire vehicle in - or the entire rear axle assembly into the shop. One word of caution - the "crush collar" on the pinion shaft. On big stuff - a stack of shims is used between the two pinion-shaft bearing so you can tighten the pinion nut extremely tight and it won't put any undue pressure on the bearings. But - on the Toyota, they used a cheap assembly trick via the "crush collar." It's a tube of thin steel that goes between the bearings. As you tighten the pinion nut (that holds the driveshaft pinion yoke on), it crushes that tube and makes it get shorter. You have to carefully tighten it unitl it gets just short enough to make the load on the bearings perfect. If too lose, the pinion wobbles and the pinion seal leaks. If too tight - the pinion bearings burn up. It's a "one shot" or "one try" deal. If you overtighten, you can't back off and start over again unless you get a new fresh crush collar. I've seen many a GM and Toyota come into a shop for a new pinion seal and the "mechanic" winds up ruining the pinion bearings by over-tightening that pinion nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Here are some photos of when I took mine apart. This gives you an idea of the parts inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 A few more also showing the new speedo adapter gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Great write up and photographs. I feel comfortable pulling the axles and removing the differential. I will take the differential to a shop that I have yet to identify and let them do the tricky stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVdaytrader Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Or you can buy a third member from east coast and do it yourself http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-16587519-toyota-8-4-cylinder-3rd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 That's a really good price if your not far away. Shipping the diff and shipping the core back could get pretty pricey. Linda S Oh I missed the includes shipping. You still have to pay to have your core returned but half the cost of both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Over $700 does not sound like much of a bargain to me. And that is just to get the assembled Hotchkiss carrier in your hands ready to install. Still got the labor to remove the old one and install the replacement. The new parts are around $275- $300. So - buying "through the mail" is paying $400 for the labor of just installing the gears. No more then two hours work. So I guess if you were going to hire someone and they are charging you $200 per hour - it's a break-even deal, one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 So, to close out this post. I sourced and pulled a third member with 4:88 gears, paid $175. Installed it, got the speedometer adapter from Sacramento speedometer, paid $85. Very happy with the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defrag4 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 10 hours ago, 1988dolphin said: So, to close out this post. I sourced and pulled a third member with 4:88 gears, paid $175. Installed it, got the speedometer adapter from Sacramento speedometer, paid $85. Very happy with the result. sounds like a good deal to me, congrats!  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaCamper Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Well done finding a used 3rd member. I also have a 22RE EFI, 21' body, A43D transmission. I'm running the 4.10 gear. I was wondering if you might be able to provide a little more info on how your set up is working. I decided to stick with the 4.10 and leave the OD OFF so I only run in 3rd gear on the highway instead of changing gears so I could use OD(4th) I typically run at 63 mph at 3600 RPM.  I can't use overdrive because my 4th gear just slips and has no power.  In 3rd at 3600 I have lots of power (and lots of noise) and the rig is responsive at ~63 mph. I generally don't take it much higher than 3800 and 67 mph so my top speed is limited this way.  It's loud but I have power and it doesn't bog up hills.  If I run in OD/4th at 63 MPH the RPM drops to ~2500 and it bogs and has no power. Generally I start loosing speed as soon as I kick OD on.  So I don't use it now and I'm happy enough.  I may have a poor/abused 4th(OD) gear and/or torque converter and this could cause the slipping in mine but 3rd gear is strong. It seems to me that changing the 3rd member has to go lock step with using OD/4th on the highway. Since I have little faith in my 4th I've just stuck with 3rd and running high RPM.  On the highway, what speed do you run and in what gear?  I would assume 4th(OD) as 3rd would be about 55 mph at 3700 with a 4.88. OD would get you 65 mph at 3000. Do you find it bogs or slows on small hills?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 12 hours ago, AtlantaCamper said: Well done finding a used 3rd member. I also have a 22RE EFI, 21' body, A43D transmission. I'm running the 4.10 gear. I was wondering if you might be able to provide a little more info on how your set up is working. I decided to stick with the 4.10 and leave the OD OFF so I only run in 3rd gear on the highway instead of changing gears so I could use OD(4th) I typically run at 63 mph at 3600 RPM.  I can't use overdrive because my 4th gear just slips and has no power.  In 3rd at 3600 I have lots of power (and lots of noise) and the rig is responsive at ~63 mph. I generally don't take it much higher than 3800 and 67 mph so my top speed is limited this way.  It's loud but I have power and it doesn't bog up hills.  If I run in OD/4th at 63 MPH the RPM drops to ~2500 and it bogs and has no power. Generally I start loosing speed as soon as I kick OD on.  So I don't use it now and I'm happy enough.  I may have a poor/abused 4th(OD) gear and/or torque converter and this could cause the slipping in mine but 3rd gear is strong. It seems to me that changing the 3rd member has to go lock step with using OD/4th on the highway. Since I have little faith in my 4th I've just stuck with 3rd and running high RPM.  On the highway, what speed do you run and in what gear?  I would assume 4th(OD) as 3rd would be about 55 mph at 3700 with a 4.88. OD would get you 65 mph at 3000. Do you find it bogs or slows on small hills?  Because the converter is not a lockup type the "slipping" is the converter this what cooks trans fluid. Bone flat ground and no real head wind OD is OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Roughly speaking:- O/D is ~30%. 4.10:1 to 4.88:1 = ~15% So 4.88:1 & O/D > ~15 less RPM vs 4.10:1 & non-O/D. There are plenty of on-line 'Gear' calculators to play with if you feel so inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) I am very pleased with the 4:10 to 4:88 swap. Due to my concerns about pushing the 22RE engine and A43D transmission to hard due to using OD significantly more I installed a tachometer, a radiator coolant temp gauge, and a ATF temp gauge to I can closely monitor what the engine and transmission  is doing. I have an app on my phone where I monitor elevation changes, ambient temperature and prevailing wind speed and direction. This just helps me to verify what when I feel and hear when working engine and RPM's start to drop. So when RPM's do start to drop towards 2600 RPM I will back off on the gas and lock out OD and let the RPM's climb back up to 2900 RPM. Once back at 2900 RPM i will go back into OD. I know that on the flats with no headwinds I can hold 56 to 58 MPH running at 2800 - 2900 RPM. I rarely ever exceed 3200 RPM. I work it at the top of the torque curve, 2850 RPM, for the 22 RE engine. I find that with 4:88 gears and the gauges that I have installed I am more comfortable on hills. I seem to maintain a higher average speed. I soon found that the high altitude OD lock out relay was not my friend so disabled the relay and installed a a rocker switch on the shifter handle to control the OD solenoid. It seems that when I bypassed the high altitude relay the installed OD lockout switch stopped working. Something I will address at a later date. I climb hills at 2800 to 2900 RPM. I will select what ever gear that gives me 2800- 2900 RPM. I to tend to avoid the sound of a screaming 22 RE engine. so I freely admit I drive slow and do not push the engine hard. This photo was taken in southern Idaho, running on flat ground at 3800 feet in elevation with an ambient temperature of 70 degrees. The numbers on the gauges pretty much tell the story. engine temp is a perfect 185 degrees, ATF fluid nice and cool at 170 degrees, 2800 RPM at 58 MPH. Transmission fluid stays ruby red. I did drop gas mileage a bit. I average 13.2 to 13.5 over long distances. Prior to the gearing change I got 13.8 to 14 on average. One last thing I learned with all the gauges is the limitations of these campers and that there are times you must slow way down or even better just get off the road.  If you are trying run at 65 MPH into a head wind on a hot day with the AC on the gauges climb quickly and A43D's fade and die. I plan on maintaining this vehicle long term. I recently refreshed this engine with a DOA stock line head that flows about a third more air than the stock head, new Aisin oil & water pump, a new single row timing chain kit with metal backed guides, new head bolts and an OEM head gasket kit. Runs strong.  Edited February 27, 2019 by 1988dolphin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 You aren't twisting it fast enough. Late model 22RE max torque is 140 lbs @3600RPM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaCamper Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Thanks for your detailed post.  I think we have similar long term commitments to our campers and there are a lot of parallels in our efforts. I have a similar dash setup with the same gauges (even a backup camera setup similar to yours) and I've also recently put a new head on along with all front of engine pumps  and timing chain with metal guides. I plan to keep it long term.  I’m really happy with the way it runs and I find the gauge info to be good feedback while driving. I have different driving conditions compared to yours.  I don’t have to deal with elevation and hills here are pretty wimpy overall.  I live in the center of Atlanta and I have to use the freeways to get in and out. I keep speed at 62 mph with a max of 67mph on the highway (my mpg suffers as a result).  OD is fairly useless to me but I can keep that speed with some power to spare at high RPM in 3rd. If I changed to a 4.88 3rd member  my calculations indicate I would max out rpm/speed in 3rd gear and would have to run in OD to get going faster than 58 mph. A 4.56 gear would max out at 61 mph at 3800. The 4.1 gear hits 67 mph at 3800 and I prefer to be able to go that fast when I need to since I have little faith in my OD. 14 hours ago, 1988dolphin said: I climb hills at 2800 to 2900 RPM. I will select what ever gear that gives me 2800- 2900 RPM. I to tend to avoid the sound of a screaming 22 RE engine. I climb hills with RPM pretty high with my 4.1 diff.  Going up a steep grade I’ll use second at 44 mph at 3600 rpm if I can maintain it. For a really steep hill I’ll go up in first at 25 mph and 3600 rpm.  I have compared the hill climbing ability at high rpm like 3400 and lower at like 2800 and there is definitely more power at 3400 in my setup.   I too dislike the sound of the screaming 22re at high RPM. It took me a while to get past this. Now I’m used to it and I feel that the benefits outweigh that cringe-worthy high rev sound. I’d rather not run so high but it’s what is working for me.    You may want to look into the power curve info some more and maybe it will alter your preferred RPM range with hill climbing. As others pointed out it was the earlier 83-84 22RE EFI that had peak torque at 2800 and the 85-97 version peaked at 3600.   I can’t find an accurate power/torque curves for a stock 22RE EFI like ours so I’m not sure how flat it is from 2800 through 3800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 The torque curve is probably pretty flat across most of the rev range, so 2800 or 3600rpm probably makes little difference. http://www.22rte-trucks.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=128.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 I followed your suggestion looked for official Toyota factory horsepower and torque curves and again struck out. If that information exists i can not find it. What I did find was numerous websites that posted two differing sets of numbers concerning where the top of the torque curve. The 2800 RPM for earlier engines and 3800 RPM for 1985 and later engines. I have an 88 so that would include me. I will continue to search on this and may eventually find an official Toyota number. But i freely agree that I could bump up the RPM level on this hill climbs and in the end the number that you posted may be closer to reality than mine. I agree that 4:88 gears would be a mistake/ It does really clip your top speed. A 4:56 third member would be a better fit if indeed you indeed want to do the swap to different gears. You do more flat land driving on ground that it much closer to sea level.  I live in Western Washington State there and have wandered out a bit and find that the combination of mountain driving and high altitude flat driving is much more comfortable gear at 4:88. The higher elevations saps the engine of horsepower and steep grades do the rest. So it is important to play with those online gear calculators to make the correct choice. I found the actual swap to be quite simple. Lots of online assistance. Sourcing the third member took more time than the swap itself. If you can pull the third member yourself you can save big time. Plus it gives you insight into the reinstall process. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaCamper Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I can see from those elevations that you would really get the benefit of that 4.88 when climbing. I can see why you would trade that for top speed. Here the hills are low and I've had relatively few issues with difficulty climbing. Maybe we both have the right gear for our situations. I see your point though about trying the 4.56 if I found one that I trusted. So, is the difficulty with the 3rd member in the setup if you buy new gears but with a used 3rd member with gears installed you can just swap out the 3rd member without a lot of hassle? From the dyno graphs it looks like torque is flat across the 2400 to 3800 rpm range but horsepower to the flywheel increases with RPM. I can't find the layman's description of power/torque/RPM and how this relates to the ability to climb a hill. From my personal experience I feel like I can climb easier at higher RPM and ability seems to fall off linearly, but not dramatically, with RPM loss until (if you forget to downshift) you hit that low point in the RPM range where all the power falls off rapidly.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 IMHO 😀 I believe, with a 4cy,l that the 4:88 is correct for the automatic. Using the O/D results in a reduced RPM over just using 3rd. That means you have a usable 4speed. If you have one of the rare 5 speeds then the 4:56 is the right deal. This is because of the difference in the O/D ratios. If you have a 4 speed leave the rear end ratio alone. With the V-6 the 4:56 seem about right for auto or 5 spd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaCamper Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 10 hours ago, WME said: I believe, with a 4cy,l that the 4:88 is correct for the automatic. And I really want to believe you. The calculations suggest that the 4.88 would be great, but the OD gear has to be a reliable 4th gear. My OD gear has just been such a poor performer that I don't feel confident enough in it, regardless of the diff gear.  Maybe my torque converter has issues, maybe it will work ok with a 4.88, maybe it will slip just as much as it does now.... I have no idea and so the safe bet is to keep the 4.10 and not use the OD except downhill with a tailwind. With the 4.1 gear I have power and I can climb the hills around here while maintaining 57 mph or better. 3rd gear at 1:1 locked through the transmission is solid and reliable, but I have to run high RPMs.  The noise of high RPM is really tedious for sure, but I don't have to fight the OD. That doesn't mean I'm not open to the 4.88. Generally I'd be interested in using OD in the speed range of 56 to 65 mph. For my current 4.10 that RPM range for OD is about 2200 to 2500. This is not in a good part of the power curve, especially at the slower speeds that Toys like to run.  Even trying to hold 60 mph at 2300 in OD with the 4.1 doesn't work well. With the 4.88 the RPM range for 56 to 68 mph is 2700 to 3100 RPM, a much better range for getting power from this engine. 60 mph at 2800 is the theory, but as we see above 1988dolphin is getting in reality 58 mph at 2800 RPM in OD. This suggests ~4% slipping according to the calculator (possibly contributing to the lower gas mileage). This is, I believe, common and acceptable slipping level.  I'm getting around 15% slipping in OD at 60 mph which is too much. Note that these numbers might not be super accurate from the gear calculator because it's hard to know what the "true" effective diameter of the rear tires is. I'm using 24.5-in based on measurements of effective tire radius at ground contact point at 50 psi. Does dropping back to 3rd from OD require one to slow down to 55 or slower first? Say you are going at 60 in OD and start up a hill. OD gets tired and it's time to go down to 3rd. you have to slow down quite a bit, right? so that RPM in 3rd is reasonable? 55 mph is 3700, is that too high to downshift? Unless OD performance exceeds my expectations then every time OD is not holding I'd have to slow down an go ~55 or so in 3rd gear.  For me (because I don't have significant hill climbing issues around here) the 4.1 with a solid 3rd gear running at a very stable ~62 to 63 mph at 3600 is hard to beat. If it were not for the RPM roar and general reservations about running the high RPM all the time I wouldn't be looking for an alternative diff gear (until I need to climb a _real_ hill of course...) Despite my reservations, I am interested in 1988dolphin's suggestion that I throw a used 4.88 3rd member in there and see what happens. That way I can go back to the 4.1 without a huge amount of trouble if I don't like it. I've been watching the local options to pick up a used one for some time but the affordable ones get snapped up pretty quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Again FWIW, I live in the Rockies every way out of town, except 1, involve an 8,000 to 11,000 ft pass. I drove a 22re, auto and pulled a 5x8ft enclosed trailer for business. My climbing rpm was 4000 rpm with short bursts of 4500 rpm if needed. As an oldskool gearhead, I've followed the 80% rule for sustained rpm. The redline on a 22RE is 5750 rpm so my internal limit was 4600 rpm. The 22re is an oversquare engine, the real limit is the cam and airflow with the stock head.  You need to think of CA freeways, Toyota sold a jillion 4sp Pickups and they spent their lives flogging down the road at 70 mph. Thats the combo that built Toyotas reputation as a builder of bulletproof engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 WME have kind of developed this lower RPM driving style. But next time out in the  hills I will remember your thoughts and put on a few more RPM’s and see how it feels. I admit the hill climbing with 4:88 gears is more comfortable than 4:10. AtlantaCamper look for source vehicles to supply you with a third member in your area auto yards. This will help a bit. https://www.roundforge.com/articles/cheap-488-gears-488s-straight-toyota/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtlantaCamper Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, 1988dolphin said: source vehicles This is likely not complete, but this is a list I've compiled of some of the donor vehicles that have stock 4.88's: I think it would also only apply to those from the factory with 31" tires and/or tow package options. 4runner 1992-1993 4x4, 6 cyl, 4.88 ratio (AT) 1994-1995 4x4, 6 cyl, 2 wheel ABS, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, 4 wheel ABS, 4.88 ratio (AT) Pickup 1992 4x4, 6 cyl, reg. cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, Xtra cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 1993 4x4, 6 cyl, reg. cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, Xtra cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 1994-1995 4x4, 6 cyl, reg. cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, Xtra cab, 4.88 ratio (AT)  Edited March 1, 2019 by AtlantaCamper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I don't want anyone to misunderstand, I didn't scream up the mountain passes at 4000 rpm all the time. The passes go up hill for a LONG way, but the grade is changing constantly, at times I'm WOT in 2nd gear at 3300 rpm and other times I'm at 1/2 throttle at 4000 rpm. The idea is to lock the transmission in 2nd to stop upshifting and downshifting as you climb. Vary the throttle instead and cruise up the hill. 2800 rpm at WOT is a lot more stressful on an engine than 3800 at half throttle. If you're in 3rd at 2800 going uphill, you ain't climbing😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share Posted March 1, 2019 I no misunderstand about what you are saying. Most of my climbing is with the shifter locked in 2nd gear and I apply RPM's to match the grade.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiflow Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 On 2/13/2019 at 10:12 PM, 1988dolphin said: So, to close out this post. I sourced and pulled a third member with 4:88 gears, paid $175. Installed it, got the speedometer adapter from Sacramento speedometer, paid $85. Very happy with the result. What was the donor vehicle? I'm looking to do the same with 4.56, or 4.88... whichever I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiflow Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) On 3/1/2019 at 1:56 AM, AtlantaCamper said: This is likely not complete, but this is a list I've compiled of some of the donor vehicles that have stock 4.88's: I think it would also only apply to those from the factory with 31" tires and/or tow package options. 4runner 1992-1993 4x4, 6 cyl, 4.88 ratio (AT) 1994-1995 4x4, 6 cyl, 2 wheel ABS, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, 4 wheel ABS, 4.88 ratio (AT) Pickup 1992 4x4, 6 cyl, reg. cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, Xtra cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 1993 4x4, 6 cyl, reg. cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, Xtra cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 1994-1995 4x4, 6 cyl, reg. cab, 4.88 ratio (AT) 4x4, 6 cyl, Xtra cab, 4.88 ratio (AT)  WME, this is super helpful. You happen to know if a third member from a 95 4runner would fit an 85 pickup/commercial chassis? Edited May 3, 2021 by jimiflow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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