Oil consumption in a 22re fuel injected engine

[mini-wini-dan]

I purchased an 87 mini-wini on June 1st of this year and have driven it twice on localized camping trips. This vehicle looks and runs good and has 74000 miles on it. I am getting great performance in the overall effects including great gas mileage 15.8 mpg on last week's 200 mile run. However it seems that I am losing oil and about 1 qt per 400 miles. I see no evidence of oil leaks and have not noticed smoking from exhaust. I am suspecting dried seals allowing oil loss maybe.

Any advice or comments about this-I can deal with adding a qt every 400 miles but still concerned about this since I have a 2.7 engine in my Tacoma that does not lose any oil in between 3000 mile oil changes.

[ShaggyRV]

A comprression and leak down test will show if you have engine problems. One thing you might try is seafoam in your oil as it can clean and free sticking compression and oil control rings. Some brands of oil seem to run through cars I have had in the past like sh*t through a goose. If its hot in your area I recommend trying Shell Rotella triple protection 15-40 which is a diesel engine oil. It will also help clean out your engine if it has gunk etc. This oil has alot more detergents because of all the soot in diesels. On a Saturn of mine which are famous for burning oil because of a bad piston design I put seafoam in each cylender overnight and let it soak. I then cranked over the engine with the spark plugs out to blow out any left over. I also added seafoam to the engine oil and drove around a day. Put in the above mentioned oil and oil consumption has gone wayyy down. These things are inexpensive and just might help you out. Good luck!!

[mini-wini-dan]

Thanks for your info and I have used Kendall 15w40 before in a camry and corolla 4 cyclinder. I've never heard of seafoam?

[ShaggyRV]

In my opinion Kendall oils are not very good. The Shell Rotella oils are awesome! All the Toyota Landcruiser guys including me use it. The Shell Rotella T6 5-40 is a full synthetic and is great too!! Walmart carries them both at a great price. The Seafoam is available at Walmart too.

[Totem]

its funny; i reported the exact same behavior on my 86 22re last summer. The guys in here all said in replies in high heat and stress this was normal. (to eat oil) for the 22re engine.

I believe they are spot on too; i did a trip of much more significant mileage in Novemeber and the oil consumption was half of what it was in late July.

[Davidadro]

One doesn’t always see smoke to be burning it, one quart every 400 miles is quite high, none the less, and the advice given to compression checks would be prudent. The R-22 pulling a motor home runs normally at higher temps and RPM than one under typical use, and as such, burning oil would mix with the fuel more effectively, and smoke would be less prevalent than on a larger slower stroke motor. Sometimes one can do a simple check for bad rings by draining their oil into a pan, and look at it for abnormally thin viscosity, and a heavy rainbow-like skim on top of the oil pool meaning there is a high level of gas in the oil from the rings not creating a good seal. Seafoam is a great product, and put it in about every 3rd tank of gas. Good luck!

[waiter]

One qt every 400 is unacceptable and something is very, very wrong.

I have a 22RE with 80,000 on it. It doesn't use any oil. I change oil every 3 - 5000 (usually at Walmart while on the road) Make sure they change the filter.. AND make sure they are not putting in 5w30, you should be using at least 10 15 or even 20 w something (10 if operating in cold 20 if hot)

Check for clogged PCV valve. If the crankcase can't breath, it will pressurize and force oil up past the rings and even push oil out past crank seals. Soak the PCV valve in carb cleaner, shake it and it should rattle. If its sludged up, you also want to do an intake cleaning as the intake system is probably sludged up too.

Look under the truck and make sure your not leaking, a tiny leak could easily throw a quart in 400 miles, (make sure PCV is clean before condemning crank seals)

If You don't see any drips in the driveway, and theres no oil in the radiator, then its going out the tail pipe. Rings or valves. :-(

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Davidadro]

I agree with Waiter, in that it is never a good idea to put in any brand of multi viscosity oil with anything less than a 10w, as well as the 400 mile per quart of oil as anywhere acceptable. That is a gallon of oil in 1600 miles? I don't care what the situation, it's not right....It's not so much the cost, or the inconvenience of putting it in, it's the obvious concerns with ones drive train due to what your cause could be. Even before I replaced my motor, I had close to 90,000 miles on my 1983 R-22, and never needed a full quart at any time between oil changes in Hot, Cold, or whatever weather conditions happened to be. Blow by, bad rings, losing it while driving through a leak when engine running, it's got to be something abnormal. Sometimes when you have a front or rear seal that’s starting to go bad, it will only leak when the engine is under high pressure load and RPM, but stops when shut off or at idle...... I wish you all peace, and safe travels!

[ShaggyRV]

The PCV is a definate possability. The things I mentioned before can sometimes help but if compression is low then its most likely engine trouble.. typically in some engines when the rings get gummed up and stick its the oil control ring and not the compression rings. Good luck but for a possible quick fix I would try a engine flush followed by the 15w-40 Shell Rotella Triple protection. You should see at least a decrease in oil consumption unless you have serious engine issues.

[Totem]

I can't find my original post from last summer, but come to think of it I think mine burnt a quart after 1500 miles, not 400.

is this normal ?

[waiter]

1500 is "acceptable", but its also a symptom of wear. (as long as it not a leak). Again, check PVC valve, and make sure your using 10, 15, or 20 weight. I suspect most Toyota will run a full oil change cycle without adding any oil ( 3- 5000)

Another problem with 5w - Its very thin and used on low tolerance engines, If its used on high tolerances engines, it can find its way down the valve stems where it will burn and coke up the valve stem. When this happens, the valve can start sticking.

Unfortunately for us, the worst thing you can do to an engine is store it for several months at a time, especially in damp climates, then run it. In worst case , you can actually start developing a layer of rust on the cylinder walls which then slowly eats away the rings when we re-start.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[ShaggyRV]

My Saturn I mentioned before was using a qt every 300-500 miles and after the piston soak and running seafoam in the engine oil for a bit it slowed to 1500 miles for a qt to burn. The combination of the thicker 15w-40 and engine cleaning helped out alot!!

[mini-wini-dan]

Thanks for all of the info. I checked the pcv valve and it is rattling freely. I pulled the plugs today and replaced them with new NGK plugs. I noticed some problems when looking at the plugs some crusting and white residue on plug # 1. I used Pennsoil 10w 30 on the recent oil change and will start using 15/40 shell rotella to see if this helps. I will have a compression check soon to see what that tells me.

Is rebuilding a feasible thought? I've heard that this can be difficult if not impossible for good results

[waiter]

Clean the PCV anyway, even it it is rattling. Crusty white on the plugs is actually a good sign. Do you have any oil on the bottom of the truck any sign of leaks???

ALSO Take the oil fill cap off and look inside the cap, does it have a white foamy look inside the cap.

pop the radiator cap, any sign of oil in the radiator. Try the 15w or even 20w

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[5Toyota]

I have owened toyota 22 or the older 20 r sinse 1983 tell now i agree with WAITER at higer miles and high temps in summer i have run 20 w 50 in my toyotas all these years. my 4wd truck is hitting 200000 now. as for my moter home i dont let it set all winter i start it and move it a little every week all winter.

[Maineah]

Carefully check the front crank seal they are famous for oil leaks and not often very visible when they first start to leak. The engine oil pump is behind the front seal and is sealed by an "O" ring type gasket it is easier to remove the pump to replace the seal and it's a good idea to replace the gasket any way.

[mini-wini-dan]

Thanks again for all of the suggestions. I have checked for oil in water -none and foamy white oil in oil cap area-none. I will crawl under to check out crankcase seal area for leaks soon. I have noticed according to heat gauge that when driving the engine appears to run at good temp. In other words the engine is not running hot and is running good with decent power and great gas mileage at nearly 16mpg on last trip. I will do a 600 mile trip soon and it will be mostly flat and straight away highway driving so I'll be curious to see if the gas mileage can improve more. When I have to add or change oil next it will be 15/40 or 20/50.

Do all agree that trying sea foam product is worth a try? Maybe put in just before the next oil change?

[waiter]

Sea Foam won't hurt anything..

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Derek up North]

Sea Foam seems to be one of the better snake oils. I've no personal experience, but probably the one I'd try.

[powdrhound]

Looks like I need to try the SeaFoam.

I consistently add a quart of 10-40 nearly every fillup.

It is not leaking anywhere. I had the head re-worked when I had one of the stripped exhaust studs helicoiled (Should have had a couple more coiled. Will do that when I pull the manifold to replace the stripped flange studs.). I have great compression. Engine only runs hot when pushing it on a Summer day while on the freeway, with the A/C on. I avoid freeways.

I expected my next step to be the ring job. I will try the SeaFoam this week.

ps. I just turned the 99,000 mile mark.

[Derek up North]

I consistently add a quart of 10-40 nearly every fillup.

I'd be pouring 20w50 in.

[waiter]

Powdrhound, Very bad, that's a quart every couple hundred miles.

Rings, valve guide seals. You might want to use straight 30w when you know the wx is hot

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[5Toyota]

i have seen high mile engines where a head job was done but then raises compression so much the old rings will not take it and start using a lot of oil until you over haul the bottom end anybody on here ever use that thick bardalls no smoke goop and mix with 20w50 can somtimes cut oil consumtion. might be too thick in winter. Ps dont forget to check those RUBBER CAM PLUGS GET OLD AND HARD THEY are prone to LEAK.

[Maineah]

The ideal behind Sea Foam is to clean carbon not to seat rings or fix a worn out engine and frankly if you think you have carbon build up plain old tap water will do exactly the same thing.

[ShaggyRV]

Seafoam can be used in the intake for carbon etc. It can also be added directly to the crankcase oil for internal engine cleaning. If there is a buildup of burnt gummed up oil around the rings it can help to clean that. give it a try. Can't hurt a thing!!

[Derek up North]

... if you think you have carbon build up plain old tap water will do exactly the same thing.

I think it might be a good idea to explain your procedure before you have readers pouring tap water in their crankcase or gas tank!

[waiter]

I think it might be a good idea to explain your procedure before you have readers pouring tap water in their crankcase or gas tank!

My brother did this once - total mechanical neophyte Filled the crankcase up with water (he was trying to fill the radiator) Fortunately, the hydraulic lock created wouldn't allow the engine to turn over. We drained the oil/water from the crankcase, refilled with oil and we were good. Note to self - Don't allow brother to open hood.

I don't think the tap water trick is possible with the 22RE. (Rev the engine up and slowly pour tap water into the intake, The Tap water does and explosive steam shock wave that can knock carbon build up loose from inside the cylinders)

You can't disconnect any air hoses between the MAC (Mass Air Sensor) and the Intake or the engine stalls. Might be able to squirt water in via one of the vacuum ports. I do this with Carb Cleaner to clean the ports and the intake (need to rev the engine or it will stall)

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Davidadro]

One can purchase a number of good brand engine tune-up/carbon cleaner applications from the auto parts store. Drain your oil, pour in some cheap oil with the cleaner and run it for about 20 minutes, drain it out, then put in your new heavy grade oil. I think pouring water straight into the cylinders or crankcase is, well you don't wanna know what I think...Good luck!

[Derek up North]

I think if you read the MSDS for most of the 'cleaners', the main component is little more than kerosene.

[Davidadro]

I think if you read the MSDS for most of the 'cleaners', the main component is little more than kerosene.

I think your right. unlike water, it's conbustable, but with a higher heat production which burns off the carbon build-up, and why one needs to follow the directions so they dont heat damage their motor and burn up the valves.

[stamar]

both of the people have an oil leak.

if you are leaking a quart every few hundred miles.... that is a fountain. That is major leak like, you dont have enough oil pressure anymore really.

that is not blow by on the rings, the engine would be coated with tar and caughing up blue smoke and your spark plugs would be.... oily of course. and shortly not firing.

This leak for both of you, seeing as its not sitting in a puddle over night...

valve seal, valve lifter.

can even be the back of the valve cover just spitting out the back. replace the whole valve cover gasket thing

You have an oil leak....

spray the whole engine down with degreaser, cause right now its covered with inches of it, and then let it run idling for 20 minutes youll see where its leaking from.

The normal oil consumption might be a quart ever 3000 miles.

Not really. These engines are famous for the opposite, basically consuming no oil at all.

I had a nissan truck with 215k miles, similar era 89 and it consumed no oil maybe a half a quart ever 5k miles. My sr22e doesnt seem to comsume any oil.

[WME]

Most auto part stores have a dye to put in the oil. Clean engine use dye, drive for a half hour and then at night use a black light to look for tell tale green.

[5Toyota]

just had a thought i seem to recall that the PCV valve is different for the carb 22r and the 22re efi the efi operates with much higher crankcase pressure you need to make shure you have the right one. when i bought one of my trucks it had the wrong one in it.

[Totem]

well, Just got back from the Rally.

averaged 1 quart per 1500 miles still on way there and back.

While there had a couple fellows check out engine.

we all observed the following

• engine Bay exceptionally clean and no signs of leaks... anywhere
  
• no smoke during running at all; no sweet smelling exhaust
  
• smooth running
  
• some heavier soot inside tailpipe
  
• no signs of coolant in oil at all.
  
• pcv valve had a 90 degree elbow (shouldnt it be straight up?)
  
• negative hose going back to motor from EFI seemed a bit worn (could see some woven metal comming through where a hose clamp was placed on it.
  

So now my thoughts moving forward:

1.) replace PCV valve (already ordered one from Nappa is on way)

2.) replace return hose

3.) check oil pan for signs of oil paste (from hiiden pan leak)

4.) compression test (2 years ago was perfect)

[stamar]

the 22re pcv valve has a right angle, the 22r is straight.

I have an extra 22r pcv valve actually.