Engine making weird rattle sound

[KonCon]

Hey all,

 

I found that the engine in my 1987 Toyota is suddenly making a weird rattle sound. I think it is coming somewhere from the right side but not so clear. I hope you all can hear it in the video here. (first half or so). There is also a weird squeaking sound coming more from the left side. I think it could be the AC compressor. Any idea what I should do to identify what it is or get it fixed? I checked the oil level and that looked good.

Thanks,

Koncon

[WME]

Remove all the fan belts, start the engine. This will tell you if the noise is in the engine or in the stuff bolted on.

The #1 noise from the front of the engine is a timing chain tensioner failure. The cam cover needs to come off to check things out. A faliure will result in the timing carving a hole in the front cover, which has coolant in it. Keep engine running to a minimum until you find the noise. 

[KonCon]

Oh great, this is not what I was hoping to hear.... 

The first noise suddenly started after I came back from my last trip and I was almost home. Any ideas what could have caused that? 

[Toycollector47]

Plastic guides.  They’re wearing items, fairly easy job tho as long as you catch it before it cuts into the cooling jacket!

[KonCon]

Alright. Thank you both so much. Looks like I'm gonna extend my automotive knowledge with this project. With you all helping, I'm confident this is something I can do. Without having done any research: Are there any old posts you'd recommend reading? 

Let's do it!!!!  💪

[extech]

don't get froggy. find the source first

[Toycollector47]

20 minutes ago, extech said:

don't get froggy. find the source first

👆👆👆👍👍

 

this for sure!

 

I have a 22RE in my 1985 4Runner, (and my 87 4Runner)  sadly, the rattle from my 85 is the #1 rod or possibly wrist pin.  Either way that engine has less than 100 miles left in it without major repairs.

 

The chain guides and tensioner (if that’s the problem for you).  Is a pretty easy fix though.

[fred heath]

Without hearing your audio you might want to check the area above your catalytic converter. Many times the factory heat shield will work loose from rust and drop on top of the converter. This also makes a rattling sound. It’s hard to spot because it’s contoured to the converter shape. You might have to reach up to find it. Be sure your engine is COLD before doing this.

 

 

[KonCon]

OK sounds good. Regarding the "removing the belts"... There's nothing that can break if I remove them right? 

Would you suggest for me to fix the tensioner and plastic guides and see if this fixes the #1 sound? 

[KonCon]

OK will do that first 

[WME]

The chain tensioner is a diy doable thing, but it is a major job. Find the noise, don't just throw $$ at it. Removing the fan belts is easy and the engine will be OK for a minute or so

[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, remove belts is a good call, and be advised you can only run it for a minute or so.  If no noise, put belts back on one at a time and see which accessory belt driven item seems the culprit. An excellent old school way to hear the sound, is to use a section of garden hose with one end to your ear and the other end to the suspect area.  I use a wooden dowel as well but don't recommend first timers use it as if you get it caught in a pulley or fan it can kill you.  I also have a set of mechanic stethescopes which are about $15 at most auto parts stores like Harbor Freight.  That's a great option as it's also safe vs a dowel. Keep us apprised and I'm sure we can lead you through it.  The 22R/RE is a very easy engine to work on, so don't be intimidated.

[Toycollector47]

4 hours ago, IdahoDoug said:

Yeah, remove belts is a good call, and be advised you can only run it for a minute or so.  
 

An excellent old school way to hear the sound, is to use a section of garden hose with one end to your ear and the other end to the suspect area.  I use a wooden dowel as well but don't recommend first timers use it as if you get it caught in a pulley or fan it can kill you. 

I’ve used long extensions, (9-12” long 3/8 drive extensions) the same way.

 

But absolutely have to be safe about it!  Especially with long hair like myself!!!!

 

Cheap harbor freight stethoscope isn’t the worst idea…

https://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-63691.html

[KonCon]

Ok guys I finally took a look and I have to say thank you for all your input. I think this is a really stupid one but thank god nothing happened:

 

I followed your advice and removed all the belts, turned on the motor and no weird noise. Everything sounded ok. So I decided to first put back the alternator belt. While I was moving the alternator, I thought it was kind of weird that it was wiggling a little bit so I thought I'd check the lower bolt that holds the alternator in place. Well it turns out, that there is no bolt anymore. I guess that the alternator moving is causing the noise.

Here's what I think happened:

I recently had to replace my alternator. When putting the new one in, I suspect I had the lower bolt loose while tightening the belt via the alternator upper bolt. And I think I never tightened the lower bolt after I was done with the upper bolt. I think I remember during my drive home after my last trip, I heard a weird sound that sounded like something falling out on the bottom or something like that. I'm pretty sure it's this bolt that came loose and fell out.

 

How can I identify the bolt that I need without having to remove the alternator. I would really like to avoid taking it out again as this was quite a pain.

 

Thank you so much!!!

 

Nico

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by KonCon

[fred heath]

My 20R had the same thing happen while on a cross country trip. A 3/8” carriage bolt either 5 1/2 or 6” long with a nylon lock nut should do the trick (short term). You can also use a section of 3/8 drill rod cut to fit with nuts on each end.

 

It’s important to install the correct grade 8 factory bolt and nut as soon as possible.

 

Also check the pulley on the alternator. Mine was bent slightly due to no support on the lower side. Either way, you might want to change the alternator, just to be safe.

[KonCon]

Thank you very much. How do I identify the correct grade 8 factory bolt? I don't plan on moving the vehicle until this is fixed.

 

Would this one work???

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by KonCon

[KonCon]

Found this drawing at partsouq.com when entering my VIN.

 

I would order all the parts below in red. Any concerns about that?

[fred heath]

If that’s what the factory is calling for then it should work.

 

Places like Autozone would probably also be able to get it for you.

[IdahoDoug]

Agree - a moderately talented parts guy could tell you the bolt and may even have them.  Glad it was nothing serious.

[MaineJed]

Any hardware store will have something that works as well. 

[KonCon]

Ended up getting it overpriced at the local Toyota dealer. That way I'll get it today and can install it before the rain sets in tmrw and I don't have to worry about anything not being the right fit. 

The two items 90201-10005, do they go in the alternator side of the bracket or the bolt/nut side? I suspect the alternator side.... 

[extech]

one against the bolt head and one against the nut

[KonCon]

3 minutes ago, extech said:

one against the bolt head and one against the nut

👍

 

The one against the nut would be against the washer, according to the drawing, right? 

Edited November 29, 2023 by KonCon

[extech]

washer on bolt. put bolt thru alt and mount. put on washer then nut

[KonCon]

Of course the Toyota guys ordered two nuts instead of two washers. Grabbed another m10 washer at Ace hardware. I saw that the ace one is slightly thicker. Any reason not to use the one on the left? 

 

[extech]

it'll be fine

 

[KonCon]

OK cool. Everything is back and motor sounds good. The only weird sound is coming from the ac unit  (my ac has been broken for a while). I confirmed it's the ac unit by running the motor when only the ac belt was disconnected and no weird sounds then. Should I just leave it and accept the weird sound or remove the ac belt completely? 

It would be great to get ac back and running but I don't know anything about it. I haven't done any service on it in the past 3 years. 

 

[extech]

clutch hub bearing is going bad . if the belt doesn't turn anything else i would remove it. one less thing to cause a problem

[IdahoDoug]

Definitely remove it.  That compressor will eventually seize one day and it could cause a fire with the friction on the stopped pulley, and when the belt breaks it could slap a hole in your radiator, or cause the other belt to come off or break -leaving you stranded.  If it's an old belt, save yourself some trouble and simply cut it with a knife.

[KonCon]

Awesome. Thank you guys. 

 

Last question. My motor has never lost oil until my last oil change. They used synthetic 5W30EURO. I don't know anything about oil but a friend of mine who knows more said he thinks this has a way too low viscosity and he thinks this would fix itself by just using a motor oil with higher viscosity. What type of oil would you recommend. Need to do an oil change soon. 

 

[extech]

i don't think toyota recommended synthetic oil for the 22r.  5w30 is more in line for newer engines with tighter tolerances

[WME]

IMHO , 10/40, 20-50 dino oil. Toyota never made a motor home, their recommendations are for a "heavily" loaded pickup with 250 lbs in the back. They have no idea about the loads involved dragging a house around at 60 mph in 100 degree temps.

[extech]

here here

[IdahoDoug]

Actually Toyota knows (and knew) plenty about heavy loads and industrial engines. Before they grew to Americanesque dimensions, the Toyota pickup was the world standard for a workhorse - hauling huge loads on abysmal roads in Africa, South America and other harsh markets.  When I worked at Toyota, we used to regularly get pictures from around the world of LandCruisers and Hiluxs with truly comical loads driving effortlessly on deeply rutted muddy roads.  Heh - great stuff.

 

So, KonCon - what do you mean by "lost" oil?  PS - you say "they" changed the oil.  So part of that question is are you 100% certain the oil was filled all the way to the full line, or are you assuming it was.  Plenty of stories of people who do not change their own oil, finding it low and having concerns caused simply by a grease monkey letting go of the trigger a fraction of a second early......

Edited November 30, 2023 by IdahoDoug

[KonCon]

Wet spots below the vehicle. Used to be only the power steering fluid. This stopped after I fixed it. Since the last oil change, I also get some drip spots from motor oil. It's just very minor and I only see it when the vehicle is standing for a longer time. Oil level is still good. I'm thinking this might stop when I make an oil change and put in some 10w40. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by KonCon