Flexible solar panel

[stamar]

http://www.sunelec.com/unisolar-laminate-pvl-128t-128-watt-peelnstick-with-mc3-3300vmp-p-1806.html

jd although it says 58c a watt

the price is 125$ for 128 watts.

or around 1$ a watt.

100$ for a 68 watt panel, solar blvd frequently has had them but is out right now.

contact them though.

theres always a significant shipping on something like this at least 20$

like mine was 116 and 25$ shipping that was in december.

Im not really shopping for you at the moment but according to ebay the price hasnt changed much since december although it seems there are fewer sellers out there.

I would do what I did.... in my thread its called taking the solar plunge.

Buy the 116 watt panel for 115

cut it off at 12 feet.

it will still be 12 volts.

hold onto the rest for if you get two.

the one directly in my signature, it says unisolar project free. for 115$

[stamar]

oh wow the seller in my signature has finally sold out.

just happened this week.

in that case

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNISOLAR-128-WATT-SOLAR-PANEL-BRAND-NEW-UNI-SOLAR-PANELS-PVL-128-WATTS-144-136-/221200771503?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338097e9af

Ill put this in my signature.

I didnt buy from this source but its a similar deal. maybe about 10 more bucks and 10 more watts ( or useless scraps depending on how you look at it)

[stamar]

I went ahead and looked up what the adhesive was,

and I was 100% correct, it is butyl tape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_rubber

it says basf on it, in faact basf owns all of unisolar they were their main creditor.

I knew it looked familiar. basf invented butyl tape. it is a bit more plasticky than the stuff I use with direct tv but it has the same properties, of a solid until heated and then its a rubber.

this should help you become less confused about the magic of it.

You wouldnt make it too far epoxying your roof it would tear right off. you need something that melts into the pores.

go to unisolar.com and where do you go? Basf.com they own the name

[stamar]

oh no doubt youd rather have a stick em panel on the roof of your motorhome than a standard panel.

it takes some pretty bad brain malfunction not to. most people its just instant, like for me I looked at the picture sky posted and I said well I have to get that what does it cost?

the only people who dont are confused right? about heat and italian panels being made for boats and whatever.

i think ive said this 4 times in this thread but the only advantage a crystal panel would have is if you wanted to cover the entire roof with them. which would be a pretty bad idea in and of itself, just look at the ridiculous metal cage rattling around on the guys roof.

youd get more watts per square foot.

for a chinnook it might be more relevant. you might actually cover the whole roof with standard panels.

but sure, for an rv you want unisolar panels absolutely. It might take you a minute or it might take you months depending on how you process information I couldnt tell you.

for a cabin or a boat, you might want standard panels. sure.

[stamar]

its quite likely this will be the last year tthey are available for any price, and certainly for this cheap.

I cant even put a window on it. theyve been on the market like this for 6 months.

I have a feeling they will be gone by summer.

[stamar]

for dissolving the adhesive try gasoline.

[stamar]

so for the chinnook you might want a lighter securely fixed solar panel that functions in shade that installs in a minute.....

but for other rvs you might want some heavy panel rattling around in a metal cage that weighs a lot, breaks from rocks and decreases gas mileage....

makes noise.

Just for the chinnook. For a um.... robin hood class C it would work out much better to slap some metal shelving in a grid and drill some holes through the auminum roof to a brace on the other side of the ceiling..... and drive around with a panel making wind noice an inch above the roof....

because..... its already huge?

the reason theres never been a rv with stick em panels standard is first unisolar is out of business, second they made them for the building trade.

If they had been around longer they should have made rv sppecific ones.... maybe more like 32 inches wide and 5 feet long in 12 volts. these are made for roofing and some smart carpenter somewhere along the line threw them on his camper van.

that may be a custom application someone can do if they get good at rewiring them.

[zero]

oh no doubt youd rather have a stick em panel on the roof of your motorhome than a standard panel.

it takes some pretty bad brain malfunction not to.

I guess . . according to you -the engineers are RoadTrek all have what you call "bad brains."

[zero]

so for the chinnook you might want a lighter securely fixed solar panel that functions in shade that installs in a minute.....

but for other rvs you might want some heavy panel rattling around in a metal cage that weighs a lot, breaks from rocks and decreases gas mileage....

Generally speaking, the flexible panels do not work any better in shaded areas then conventional panels as long as both have many blocking-diodes wired in. It is the blocking diodes that allow better use in partial shade.

In regard to a solid panel rattling as you go down the road? Maybe if YOU installed it.

The Chinook has a pop-up roof that i don't want to add much weight too. Also , it is not flat. So far it's a toss-up which would work better (in my opinion). Flexible panels offer less wind-resistance but also tend to have less output per square inch then conventional panels. I'm considering using conventional panels with air holes drilled through the frames so they can be direct mounted to the roof. Haven't decided yet. I already added more weight to the roof that what was designed for by Chinook. The Chinook boys - in the manual state that NO additional weigth is to ge added.

My Hallmark RV has a pair of 120 watt conventional panels on the roof. No rattling a 75 MPH. They are however, on mounts raised an inch higher then the roof and make some wind noise.

[zero]

http://www.sunelec.com/unisolar-laminate-pvl-128t-128-watt-peelnstick-with-mc3-3300vmp-p-1806.html

jd although it says 58c a watt

the price is 125$ for 128 watts.

When Sun Elec shows a low price like 58 cents per watt . . it means you have to call their sales office and ask how many panels you need to buy to get the lowest price. I've done it many times. There is a minimum quantity required to buy in order to get the lowest prices.

[Derek up North]

.... as Popeye would say, I am who I am.

Misquote!

Just goes to show, once something's on the net, it's on the net forever!

[zero]

Not sure what solar panels I will be installing on my rig as I won't be taking on that project until next winter as I have too many other higher priorities for needed upgrades.

Much depends on what you want them to do. I haven't heard much discussed about that.

If you mount solar panels flat on the roof, you lose around 30% as compared to what you COULD get if pointed at the best angle, all the time.

In my case, all I want is 10 amps @ 14 volts potential in full sun. A pair of 120 watt panels mounted flat will do that. That can keep an RV going all day with electric fans, computer and TV intermittently, and an electric refrigerator going. Also keep the batteries all charged when parked IF not hidden in sheltered car-port with a roof.

You look good to me by the way, but I guess saying so makes me a dirty old man.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Karin,

That's quite a career you've had. Makes me envious. Have you ever built a homebuilt airplane?

John

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Karin,

I'd like to install a couple of solar panels but right now the money is tight so I'm limited to what I can do by constantly being on the lookout for good used materials of all kinds. I just scored a good 11 foot awning here locally for $250 and someday I'll probably find a solar panel or two as well.

I'm familiar with the Arlington Fly In as I used to live in Bellingham. My wife also has a place on Lummi Island that is rented out right now. We both spent quite a bit of time in the Seattle-Bellingham area as we both worked on the Schooner Zodiac as crew. I was chief mate and relief captain on there for five years and my wife was their cook for over 17 years! We got around the Puget Sound area and well up into Canada on our trips on the schooner. It was quite a life but when time came for me to renew my coast guard captain's license for the third time, we both figured we'd rather leave the ocean to the younger up-and-comers and retreat to the woods of rural Montana. It was a good choice and I get to pursue my original trade of wooden boat building. It continues to surprise me how much boat building and repair goes on in the Flathead Valley (Kalispell). Plus, its a LOT quieter!

John

[zero]

Karin,

I'd like to install a couple of solar panels but right now the money is tight so I'm limited to what I can do by constantly being on the lookout for good used materials of all kinds. I just scored a good 11 foot awning here locally for $250 and someday I'll probably find a solar panel or two as well.

If you have an eye out for conventional solar panels - the shipping charges are often what kills the deal. Many solar sellers are refusing to ship via FEDEX or UPS and will only use truck-freight. That is expensive unless you are buying a large quantity. Last year, after Evergreen of Massachusetts went bankrupt - the market was flooded with their solar panels. Oddly, the panles weren't even in the USA anymore. An outfit in Florida bought over $1,000,000 worth and was reselling from Miami at 30 cents per watt. These were 120 or 140 watt, 12 volt panels. I tried to buy 4 and shippng would of been $350. I also could of bought an entire pallet of them, delivered to NY for the same $350. I finally talked a friend of mine who lives in the Gulf Coast to drive over to Miami and pick up a dozen panels. I took half and he took half - all at 30 cents per watt. I mention this because I've seen a few companies from Texas selling large panels on Ebay with free shipping. That counts for a lot when figuring total cost.

When I installed 5400 watts of solar at my house and farm - they all were truck shipped from Arizona. Panels never seem to be close by when cheap.

[zero]

Paying a woman a gentlemanly compliment never makes a man dirty and old

I know I'm WAY off topic here - but can't resist making a reply. You are a breath of fresh air in a society that has, in many ways, gone nuts. Some behavior on this forum shows that clearly.

It can be problematic now-adays for a guy to compliment a woman. Good Lord!. Even the converse might be true. The mildest comment with the most innocent intention can be spun out of control.

I remember one day I was with my dad, leaving a store in the late 1960s maybe? He was the sort of guy that alway held doors open for women, or if he saw a lady struggling with carrying groceries - he'd run over and offer to help. This particular day, a woman's bag of groceries (actually, it was liquor) fell apart and much fell crashing to the ground. My dad ran over and tried to help her and she turned around screaming and cursing at him. As a punk teenager, even I was shocked - but as an adult from the "old generation", my dad was REAL shocked. I'm not sure he ever got over how society changed at that time. He died mabye 10 years later and perhaps it's a good thing. He would not believe what things are like today.

[Maineah]

To me the first thing to do is reduce the electrical demand. Leave home what you don't need take what you do need, need trumps want. Install LED's, use expansion tanks on the water system install efficient low amp exhaust fans get rid of the stupid little fans that don't move air and suck up power find another way of heating without a giant blower motor. Leave the inverter home unless you go nuts without TV or a computer take an iPod or a tablet instead they charge quickly require only a 5 volt charge from a lighter socket adaptor and last a long time. Two group 24's last me 7 days without a recharge even with occasional use of my 100 watt ham radio transmitter. There is a solar panel in my feature it will be ridged something 50-100 watts ground mounted with direction and azimuth staked to the ground to be stored inside the camper when not in use (excluding night time). Have no use for a generator been around running engines my entire life don’t need to go away to hear another one the last generator I had to deal with had 16 cylinders and made 1.5 million KVA at 480 volts. That’s my take others may need to bring the kitchen sink.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Maineah,

I like the way you think and I've been moving in the direction of the "KISS" principle almost from the day I got my Dolphin. The next big step in my re-do of the Dolphin will be LED lights for the interior since I can more easily afford the change over. A solar panel (or two) is well down the road unless one falls in my lap or I win Powerball. The idea of getting another heat source intrigues me and I may go for a Mr. Buddy or something similiar in the future. Right now, I only use the motorhome from about mid May to about mid October so my heat use is usually limited to a warm-up in the morning. I removed the roof top AC unit from my rig to help with roof sag and since in the 17 years I've had the Dolphin, I've only been in one RV park to plug in for the night, I really didn't use the AC. I don't care for TV much and the last thing I'd want to do while on a trip would be to stare at a television while I'm surrounded with the quiet natural beauty available here in the Northwest.

Although I'm not in your league with the 16 cylinder unit, I spent more than enough time around noisy generators while working on two government research ships on the west coast and Alaska. Even the 160 foot sailing schooner I worked on had a small 20KW unit running all the time. I like to think of the RV as a sort of escape pod that allows me to camp out with friends, drink a little good bourbon and play bluegrass music well into the night.

John

[stamar]

i once used a solar powered computer set up every single day

I worked for tomra pacific in corona california doing inventory.

Tomra is a norweigan company its the worlds largest recycling company. They received a grant to be a totally solar powered company.

That means that every single office equipment we had had its own solar panel. every single one was on a cart to bring outside

my particular set of equipment was a printer and a palm pilot type of thing and a small solar battery.

if I were to set the solar panel flat on the ground, the only time it would even register ANYTHING as far as a positive charge, much less 30% less, would be between 11 and 1 pm. and sometimes I would lay it flat if I didnt have time to turn it around at noon( a la at noon if its pointed the wrong way its now getting nothing unless its flat.)

it needed a 45 degree angle and to follow the sun, meaning at 12 turn it around, to even get through the day. this was with a standard 100 watt polycrystaline panel.

the panel I have on my roof is outperforming the one i used in the past, but its acually rated almost exactly the same capacity. its much larger being like 14 feet long as opposed to sometihng like 4 feet.

so 30% less to me sounds like a dreamy number. id count on way less than that from a permanently horizontal panel.

I will sometime closer to summer do a charge per hour experiment. I honestly expect to be getting positive solar charge around 4-6 hours a day mostly between 10 and 2 and nothing the other hours. not very little i mean literally nothing.

I have months of personal experimentation with this that few people have. a flat standard panel literally gets no juice most of the day. part of my roadmap is to actually put two unisolars panels on the side literally facing 90 degrees. this is based on a design i read about randomly on the internet based on an entirely solar powered car where the majority of the panels are literally on the side facing out of a very tall thin vehicle.

[stamar]

at this point there are no sources for 1$ a watt panels on ebay with the adhesive on ebay.

as soon as I find one Im buying another one.

everyone else whos wondering whether its a good idea or not still should probably just forget about it.

[stamar]

right now im in the market for jds florida unisolar source

of 128$ for 125 watts plustr 40$ shipping to oregon.

all of the ebay ones for 1$ right now have no adhesive. and Im not about to epoxy them to my roof personally.

if anyone finds other sources please share them. my cheap ebay sources dried up completely this week.

[stamar]

I could care less about what you look like karin.

Im not interested in you at all really. you have nothing to add and a long history of wasting other peoples time with nothing that makes sense at all. You wont ever have solar panels on your rig or do anything actually. Im interested in telling you to stop messaging me I dont have time for you.

But if for some reason you are making fun of the way I look you need an optometrist visit is all I would say. I missed whats funny about the way I look actually.

you are what you are.

[stamar]

if you can get a lot of unisolar panels for 58c

buy them all. I think thats safe to say. sell them for 2$ a watt this summer.

Safeest investment Ive seen lately.

[stamar]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flexible-SOLAR-Panel-Cells-50-Unisolar-Panels-365W-Total-Watts-Fast-Low-Ship-/130872540877?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e789c7ecd

Im definitely thinking of pulling the trigger on this.

mostly because I can get all the butyl tape I want already.cover the whole rectangle area between the two panels I have

[stamar]

But most especially never screw anything into the roof of your motorhome that moves at 60 mph.

Screws are for wood. The luggage rack on a toyhome is screwed into wood placed there espially for thhose screws between the roof and the ceiling. And I wouldn't even put derrick of the norths luggage on it as it uses galvanized screws through aluminum and by now everyones should have rusted off.

If you were to screw anything thhroough fiberglass or aluminum you would need to have a board on the other side of the roof to take the screws.

A screw through fiberglass or aluminum will not even hold soomething that weighs one pound onto your roof.

articularly aluminum you need a board on both sides.

Do not be screwing solat panels to the roof of your motorhome.

This is from someone who screws things into roofs all day. You cannot screw into a fiberglass or aluminum roof. At all.

You will need to create a frame below the ceiling to clamp the roof from both sides.

When I wired my solar panels I didn't even screw tack the wires. A screw will not even hold down a wire to an aluminum roof that moves at 60 mph.

[stamar]

the luggage rack for my dolphin is screwed into wood.

Itself is ppossibly fine to use for a solar panel mount.

Overall it is just about sturdy enough to keep itself from flying off the roof, up until the point where someday it flys off the roof.

Don't screw things into your fiberglass roof regardless of what you think a screw will not hold anything on your roof.

[Derek up North]

Thanks for being so concerned for the wellbeing of my luggage. I'm surprised that you go on to say you would install your solar panels up there. At least in one sentence. Of course you change your mind by the next sentence.

Of course most of us haven't had several minutes of intensive training on the proper use of lag bolts.

[zero]

Most people, including JD know to screw on through the fiberglass or aluminum skin and on into the framing. They might not state that is what they are doing because they would rightly assume that no one would be so stupid as to do what you are thinking they are doing.

Yes. There is also a marvelous invention called a "bolt and a nut." Sometimes an innovative person might actually drill a hole in roof, stick a bolt into it, and then put a big washer and nut on the inside. Amazing but true! Or a bolt fastened to an expanding blind nut inside. Or a block of wood added to the inside.

I found a solar panel on the roof of my Chinook that I had not even known was there. Looks like a 20 amp panel. Not normally visable unless you are in a helicopter. Held on with aluminum channels with 1/4"bolts going through the top, and 1 1/2"diameter washers and nuts on the inside. I wish the installer had used stainless-steel hardware though instead of gavanlized steel.

By the way, one unamed poster stated that "screws are for wood." Just to set the record straight, there are many other types. Self-tapping screws for steel, sheet metal screws for - duh - sheet metal, screws for concrete, etc. Pretty much anything with advancing threads can be called a "screw." Even a "twin screw supercharger" on a diesel engine or "twin screw" propellors on a boat.

Back to flexible solar panels. I got reading users comments on them in Europe where they are more common. I noticed a very high failure rate for flexible panels mounted directly to RV roofs with no air-cooling underneath. Many users claimed the panels failed within 2 years. No details given though about what sort of failures, what sort of air temps, etc.

[WME]

Just to complicate things I'll throw out "Well Nut". A couple of fender washers and a well nut do wonders attaching things to fiberglass.

[zero]

It would be an interesting experiment at the next Toy-In from this forum to park a fiberglass roofed Toy Home in direct sun next to a metal roofed one and see what the temperature readings are on the two different surfaces.

I cannot cite actual temps but I've put a lot of new roofs on houses. I put a red steel roof on an house last summer that originally had white asphalt shingles. Mid summer, nothern Michigan. Full sun each day around 80-85 degrees air temps. I could easily walk the asphalt roof wearing sneakers. When I started walking on new steel my feet got so hot I could not walk it. I had to lay a sheet of insulation over the steel on any spot I stayed very long. I also had to start wearing workboots that handled the heat better. That's northern Michigan not exactly known for hot sun. I imagine if in the southwest or Florida, that roof would of been hotter.

Conventional solar panels - if one wants to follow mandates from the people that make them - require air space underneath so convective air-flow will take place.

[stamar]

yes obivously you put bolts and washers not screws.

for an aluminum roof you need a frame undeerneath the ceiling to mount sometihng on the roof like a carrier.

Theres only one person here who talked about screwing something to their roof. maybe two dont screew things to your roof.

[stamar]

ive never installed non stickem solar panels on a roof however I read enough about it from people that did.

why would I waste my time like that? Im working 60 hour weeks.

Theres another picture here of actually recessing the roof to put solar panels in that eliminates some ceiling space to take the panels out of the wind.

If someone wants to do that to their toyhome they can. makes sense in some ways not in others. If you cant get stick em panels and youre retired it sounds fun.

if I were going to install a standard solar panel the quickest short cut would be the luggage railing because its already got the sup frame beneath it. nothing else to build literally use steel wire to the frame of the panels. this skips a project that no one wants to do which is to mount a heavy panel to the roof. unfortunately it puts permanent shade on the panel. but you can see the pictures of the " solar industry professional" who put two on his luggage rack and they must be working.

the next best spot? the vents. All the vents have a frame below the ceiling.

other than that you are screwing bolts to a frame you make. I believe hiring someone to do it costs hundreds of dollars. I may even start advertising it lol.

I doubt anyone is intersted in taking that project on, other than people who are actually bored and want to take projects on.

I think in here theres an example of someone attaching two 100 watt panels to the luggage frame. so its definitely done. on the other hand, its 30 year old screws in 30 year old kindling wood so

sometime in the summer Im going to install a standard solar panel on the escape hatch vent I have in the front of my dolphin.

I dont think most toy homes have one like that, its just a double vent but its more likely to handle the weight of a 100 watt or so panel. not throughing screws in.

The only purpose to putting screws into a fibrerglass motorhome is...... none. to crack it or to put something in it when its not moving. even something that weighs 5 pounds will pull a screw out of a fiberglass hole on the freeway.

[Derek up North]

I hear from an unreliable source that the secret is to read it 3 times.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Karin,

I saw somewhere on here that you live on a boat. What do you have and where do you keep it?

John