darrel Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Is there anyone out there with any knowledge about flexible solar panel. They glue or tape down with no mounting holes. Darrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Uni-solar. They are out of business. Good deals on e-bay. Large size for watts out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Is there anyone out there with any knowledge about flexible solar panel. They glue or tape down with no mounting holes. Darrel I'm curious to see what you find out. I've been working with solar energy for over 30 years but not with the flexible arrays. Solar panels need cooling and usually require air-flow underneath them or they overheat and fail prematurely. For that reason, I'm wondering how they can work and last when installed directly on a roof of an RV. My guess it that they don't. I see the new Eco Roadtrek RV that just came out with a roof full of factory installed solar and they used solid panels space a few inches off the roof to provide air ventilation under them. I suspect they decided the flexible panels were not suitable on the roof? Just a guess, I do not know for sure. Maybe somehow the flexible panels can endure more heat buildup then the solid-framed panels . . but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 What one chooses to use depends on a number of variable. Where will you be located most of the time. What is the temperature, how much sunshine versus cloud cover. How much roof surface area do you have that is actually suitable for adhering thin film flexible panels. You will have to create a measured map of your roof top and then look at the sizes the standard panels come in. Also figure out if your roof is prone to standing water as that would become an issue too. Note that the adhesive that sticks the panels down has to be very strong for wind resistance and temperature resistance. That means if you ever need to replace a panel that is glued down you are going to have a tough time of it to get it off the roof. Given that fact I would opt for the best quality panels you can afford to buy. I am a bit concerned about the crows and seagulls around here as everyday they bring the clams and mussels up from the beach and drop them from a height to open them. There are some pretty big and sharp shell fragments lying around the parking lot here. I will have to add impact resistance to my list of things to check on when I go to purchase panels. Just about all solar panels come with a 20 year warranty for electrical output. None that I know of come with any warranty for impact damage. Typical framed/solid panels come with impact resistant tempered glass. Flexible panels have no impact barrier. All I've seen - in order to qualify for any warranty - require a steel/zinc backing plate installed under them. I suspect any installs you see of flexible solar glued directly to a roof have no warranty coverage. I.e. "do at your own risk." Unisolar makes the flexible panels that are 16" wide and come in lengths of 9 feet, 16 feet, and 18 feet. The version that comes in 12 volt is # PVL-68. 94 1/8" long by 15 1/2" wide and comes preglued. Sells for around 60 cents per watt from wholesalers. Absolute max high temp rating is 185 degrees F. I suspect there is no way they can be glued directly to a metal roof and stay cool enough. That's why solar is usually installed with an air space underneath. Amazon sells them but with an inflated price . http://www.amazon.com/Uni-Solar-PVL-68-PowerBond-112-Inch-15-5-Inch/dp/B002MWDI44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 This place sells them much cheaper (1/4 to 1/3 the price of Amazon). http://www.sunelec.com/unisolar-laminate-pvl-128t-128-watt-peelnstick-with-mc3-3300vmp-p-1806.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 ebay has the same one i bought for sale still in my signature relisted. Thats who ii bought it from. solar blvd has a 10 foot 12 volt version for 100$ I paid 140 shipped. the length of a 21 foot dolphin roof it 16 feet so everything over that will either be cut off or you can stick it to the cabover bump but it will cover some of the window. I worried about them being permanent too but you can pull them off without breaking them. I dont think at that point you could restick them. but you can recycle them to a differentt motorhome definitely. They stick way better than nuts and bolts would far more securely in the freeway speeds. In fact consider these the worlds only rv ready solar panels. they dont overheat at all lol but then again I installed them in portland in winter. They are three times the size of crystaline panels. I dont believe they get hot or by definition ever need some sort of clearance. They are made for standard steel roof housing they cover acres of department store roofs. they mount directly to steel roofs, thats all they do ever. hundreds of miles of these things are in use right now none overheating. They stick to aluminum corrugated roofs like mine and to fiberglass roofs like warriors. Nobody with a sunrader has one yet that I know of but in the email string theres about 5 people with at least one and I have two and nothing but perfect reviews. Considering you cant really save money with crystalline panels I cant think of why youd want one on your rvs roof. If you are at the point where you literally run on out of space for unisolar panels on the roof you should be at like 600 watts.you could even put them on your hood. and on the sides That being said, my third solar panel will be a rectangular 125 watt crystaling panel near the front between the two unisolar strips. It just fits right, theres no more room on the roof because of the vents. If they made unisolars in squares and not long strips i wouldnt think about using anything else but they are long skinny strips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 btw those solbian flex panels are exactly the same as unisolar. unisolar went bankrupt, now their being remarketed by creditors under a different name. So the pannels wont actually disapear, they will just be resold at retail. the unisolar branded ones are the ones were getting for cheap. those are made in america unisolar panels make no mistake. 16 inches wide. 2 panels per width, 4 panels per square. all connected on the edges via foil tape. thats what they are the squares are taped together, then covered with a resin. the only reason mine dont look exactly like the ones the aussie is showing is the covering is off. when i look at mine closely through the opaque, thats exactly what I see. As far as getting up to date to new technology.... whaat? these things are at least five years old. youre so far out of date they actually already sold millions of them, the biggest us solar panel maker in the world, and they already went out of business. never marketed to rvers though too expensive and normally sold in contractor size lots until they went bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 ya actually the only solar panels i know of that would absorb a seagul dropping a rock on them would be unisolar panels. Or I guess a cryastaline panel covered with gorilla glass. yyou could actually shoot them with a machine gun and blow holes in them and they would still work. They are the only panels in the world with that technology, other flexible panels do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 It seems to be they are something different. They apear very similar but described are something different on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 What one chooses to use depends on a number of variables. Where will you be located most of the time. What is the temperature, how much sunshine versus cloud cover. How much roof surface area do you have that is actually suitable for adhering thin film flexible panels. You will have to create a measured map of your roof top and then look at the sizes the standard panels come in. Also figure out if your roof is prone to standing water as that would become an issue too. Note that the adhesive that sticks the panels down has to be very strong for wind resistance and temperature resistance. That means if you ever need to replace a panel that is glued down you are going to have a tough time of it to get it off the roof. Given that fact I would opt for the best quality panels you can afford to buy. I am a bit concerned about the crows and seagulls around here as everyday they bring the clams and mussels up from the beach and drop them from a height to open them. There are some pretty big and sharp shell fragments lying around the parking lot here. I will have to add impact resistance to my list of things to check on when I go to purchase panels. you know speaking of bonehead misinformation karin I was wondering what sort of solar panels you use depending on how much sunlight you have. Do you use different solar panels in seattle from denver? or dependent on the temperature? Which ones did your research come up with to use when its hot or cold? and if its hard to get the panel off the roof why do you want the most expensive panels wouldnt you want the cheapest if you cant take them with you to your next rv? Its weird I put two of the only flexible solar panels that are available realistically on my roof and i didnt need a diagram of the shape... because theres only one shape they come in. Do you not even have any solar panels karin? Have you never had any? I never would have guessed. never seen one, or the adhesive. Never measured the power. Never really even shopped for some. and that being the case what possessed you to free flow that crazy advice? Theres no different solar panels you buy based on where you are or the temperature. You might mean that if youre in a less sunny place you might need more to generate the same power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I think if someone is shopping for unisolar panels Id consider actually buying an 18 foot one and cutting it in half, making two 68 watt 12 volt panels. the nine foot size is going to fit on the roof a few places. theres picture diagrams but what you would have to do with the back half is actually solder 4 wires to the end both top and bottom. just based on what they are going for that seems the cheapest per watt. and an 18 foot unisolar panel doesnt fit anywhere on a toyhome really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 not that it couldnt happen, somehow filling your 18 to 21 foot rv roof with solar panels..... But hey lets find someone with a toyhome that has 300 watts of solar panels first. I dont think there is anyone. I think you can fit like 700 watts of panels before you have to pull out the protractor and look up the cotangent angles I think 250 watts is the most anyone has. The most ive even heard of on a mobile living device is 1200 watts of panels on a boat. start with one. As soon as your roof is filled with solar panels come back and lets redo the plan. lol I want to see a picture of a toyhome roof with more than two solar panels on it. I dont think there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve "n" Stephen Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Possibly the best price, $.70 a watt, on solar is a crystaline cell. Solar Blvd. has MX Solar 220W 24V for $154.00 These are made in the USA (I don't know if this is good or not). There are a couple downsides though, they weigh 48 pounds and have to have an air space between them and the roof. Also, the shipping is pretty high, around $75 by truck, although it goes down per unit a lot if several are ordered. I'm hoping to get a couple of these soon. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 How about 11 panels Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 there you go. it looks like 11 50 watt panels or so. apx 500 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 ya im not interested in making a metal concraption like that to hold solar panels off the roof rattling around. I guess Im spoiled. Steph thanks for the update that really doesnt do it for me yet. thats still actually more expensive that 220 watts in unisolar panels. you can literally cover every inch of your roof with unisolar panels if you cut them up and run your own wires around the vents. I dont plan on ever doing anything like that but id like to see someone do it. I can see me getting enough scraps to try and cover up my hood with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 those might be 125 watt panels actually im not pulling out the protractor. that could be 5 125 watt panels and I guess .... 6 small ones i dont see somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The weight of conventional solar panels is an issue. A member of the toyota campers group Jeff is in the solar business and had 1000 watts of panels on his roof but it was too top heavy. He removed half of them and now just goes with 500 watts. I found these on ebay. Shipped from china but light weight and not too large for the amount of watts. Not a lot of room on top of a shorty Sunrader. I'm thinking about adding some solar cause I'm off in the boonies most of the time camping http://www.ebay.com/itm/200Watt-2x100W-Semi-Flexible-solar-panels-for-car-boat-RV-2pc-100W-solar-moduls-/400420797163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3af07aeb Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 linda thats actually a bid. the price they sell one 100 watt panel is actually $240. way too expensive to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 linda thats actually a bid. the price they sell one 100 watt panel is actually $240. way too expensive to me It's a bid on 2 of those panels. Click on the same link tomorrow and see what they actually sold for. Bet it's 350 or less Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 It is time you updated your knowledge of the flexible solar panels and the installation options. That market is changing rapidly. Yes you can mount the panels directly to the roof, they even have panels you can walk on. Check out this video... http://youtu.be/BD4AxqkPwhE No, things haven't changed all that much. Anybody can install any way they want. My point is what the company that makes the panels advises and allows under warranty. And yeah, not everyone cares about warranty including me at times. I'm seen many flexible panels fastened directy to fiberglass and steel roofs and many were violating warranty mandates. So far, all the flexible panels I have specs on have an absolute maximum high temperature rating of 185 degrees F. NOW - if you are saying my info is incorrect - show me the specs on a panel with a higher rating please. Please don' t cite some company who is installing their own way that is not backed by the company making the panels. I admit, with flexilble panels, I have only worked with the 15" side Unisolars and with them - they all require a thin zinc-plated metal plate underneath for the panel to be glued to. Again - if you have "new" info to the contrary, from the company making the panels - please post a link to the PDF datasheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 The weight of conventional solar panels is an issue. A member of the toyota campers group Jeff is in the solar business and had 1000 watts of panels on his roof but it was too top heavy. He removed half of them and now just goes with 500 watts. I found these on ebay. Shipped from china but light weight and not too large for the amount of watts. Not a lot of room on top of a shorty Sunrader. I'm thinking about adding some solar cause I'm off in the boonies most of the time camping http://www.ebay.com/itm/200Watt-2x100W-Semi-Flexible-solar-panels-for-car-boat-RV-2pc-100W-solar-moduls-/400420797163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3af07aeb Linda S The conventional panels have more weight due to the tempered glass and aluminum frame BUT also put out a lot more watts per square inch. The flexible panels tend to make 1 watt for every 25 square inches. The solid panels make 1 watt for every 12 square inches - i.e. twice the power per space used with the solid panels. 68 watts of flexible panel weighs 8.7 lbs. by itself and if installed according to warranty -with the thin backing plate - in total near 20 lbs. 120 watts of a solid panel with aluminum frame and tempered glass weighs 16 lbs. for the panel plus what ever extra is added if a mounting frame is used. Usually 2-4 additional pounds. So, the flexible panel if installed by Unisolar specs - weighs 1/4 pound per watt. A rigid panel with added mounted weights 1/6 of a pound per watt. It's all kind of a toss-up to me. NO huge advantage to flexible panels. They are inefficient and if glued directly to your roof - probably in violation of warranty also - they become a permanent part of the RV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Here are a few cheap enough to merit taking a chance and direct gluing to an RV roof. I'd want a few screws in them too for a vehicle that might be travelling 60-70 MPH. I suspect though on a metal roof in hot sunny areas - they'd heat up to that max of 185 F with no air space underneath. Again, cheap enough to take a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Well the panels I posted were slightly flexible not like the unisolar ones and quite small, 42x33 for 100 watts. My friend installed the unisolar on his Sunrader. Not too likely that fiberglass roof is ever getting to 180. I can sit on mine on the hottest day. It is also never coming off at any speed. You have to be very careful to have them lined up exactly cause that is the strongest glue I can imagine. As solid on that roof as can be Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 No the unisolar panels are not permanent you can peel them right off again with one hand.... My friend has some of those too only that friend is me. Well the unisolar may weigh more per watt but its much lighter per square inch of roof. That's some weird weight data. The reason unisolars stick to your roof is because they are so much lighter. Your roof does not care about the watts a roof operates on pounds per inch Who cares what the watts are that's not what enters into mounting them on your roof. The poly panels are so much heavier you need metal braces. You could cover your roof with unisolar panels no problem. It should increase insulation. You can see the pictures of the metal braces made to put 11 100 watt panels cover your roof it weighs a lot more. Basically its a bad idea lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I swore off doing rv projects for a few months. But what I was close to pulling the trigger on was getting two more unisolar panels, and then putting a camo vent cover over the vent in the middle and putting the panels over the vent cover. Just leaving it there like that. I'm not positive if its a good idea or not but I already have the vent cover. That center vent really breaks up a lot. I thought about a project of returning it to roof... Space for two more ten footers. So four on the roof. But then I also though about wiring three 4 foot panels just on the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unisolar panels are made for commericial buildings that would get much hotter than any rv ever would. They are made for steel roofs. The largest purchaser was wal mart there are hundreds of miles of these things on wal mart roofs. The adhesive is related to butyl tape and would seal more when hot actually. You could actually drill screws through them and they would still work. But hundreds of rvers have had them and they have never moved an inch whereas non adhesive solar panels fly off all the time. Don't do any suposing just ask the owners. Rver have had these things for years. Smart ones at least. They were just never cheap before last year. I have no idea how much longer they will even be for sale. I'm almost selling myself on getting one more and holding onto it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Unisolar panels are made for commericial buildings that would get much hotter than any rv ever would. They are made for steel roofs. The largest purchaser was wal mart there are hundreds of miles of these things on wal mart roofs. The adhesive is related to butyl tape and would seal more when hot actually. You could actually drill screws through them and they would still work. But hundreds of rvers have had them and they have never moved an inch whereas non adhesive solar panels fly off all the time. Don't do any suposing just ask the owners. Rver have had these things for years. Smart ones at least. They were just never cheap before last year. I have no idea how much longer they will even be for sale. I'm almost selling myself on getting one more and holding onto it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Its not the right panel if you want say 1000 watts on your roof. But on the counter side nothing is. 1000 watts of solar power on a toyota motorhome is a bad idea what you need is a generator. Put a few panels up and a few deep cycle batteries. The real lesson in rving is how to stop using electricity. You're never going to make it if you dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I don't know of anyone that put them in a heavy tray lol we all put them directly on the roof. Whereas that means it weighs in reality a small fraction. That's a really hard bs to get by, something that weighs a fraction could be heavier..... hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I don't believe there is such a thing as a warranty at all. There's no unisolar. If a vender gives you a warranty its whatever they want. Usually it would be a rip off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 It was a prettyy idiotic post we all just ignored it as what ot was, kind of weird nonsense. Take your weird insulting nonsense somewhere else. Keep up to date on the medication and you'll be ok. I'm not here to take your bat shit crazy abuse. And particularly stop giving advice on things you obviously know diddly about. The erson asked does anyone know about stick em panels. Your answer was that it depends on where you are located and a diagram of the panel shapes? What? Two words, shut up. That defeats the purpose of the forum, I. Feel compelled to let everyone know you don't know what you're talking about please don't listen. Then in conversation about your useless link to panels that are not for sale and don't really matter you do a crazy paragraph of how your offended. Be offended in fact go away. I don't have time for that childish behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Go away Crazy free flow and then weird drama aren't helpful to the goal which is the correct listing of facts for everyone to draw on to make their decisions. That's why everyone reads all of my posts actually, other than waiter I spent the most time actually contributing to the correct facts and picturing my projects, Your contributions are much more in fact id rather you didn't post in solar again you have less than nothing to contribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Jd Of the hundreds of rvers using stick em solar panels, none thought it was a good idea to put a zinc tray meant for steel roofs. They just stuck them on that's the point. You could be the first. Now in general its a terriblle idea but it occurred to me that part of the purpose of the tray was to keep the panel at a 3 degree angle. So a stick em panel in a tray probably produced more juice. Next exppand the idea to eliminate metal or anything that weighs anything but a long wedge that is at 3 degrees, platic wood whatever and you have something that could be a good idea if its secure. It could bring some wind resistance but bring out more juice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 My friend has some of those too only that friend is me. That explains a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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