Derek up North Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I've been searching here and the Yahoo Group for Toyota Motorhomes with the coach/house battery under the hood. I read a very few references to this that seem to be mainly Sunraders (1 Mini-Mirage and Dolphin mentioned). These are typical comments:- "My 84 Sunrader has the truck battery on the drivers side and the house battery on the passenger side either side of the radiator." "I just purchased 3 LifeLine AGM batteries for my 4x4 Sunrader. I replaced the small group size 24 80AH house battery under the hood ..." All references seem to be '84 and earlier with the following exception:- "I have seen more dual under-the-hood batteries in Sunraders than any other brand -- even as late as 1988." Here's my question: Can anyone confirm having seen a coach/house battery under the hood with a 22R-E (fuel injected)? I also seem to remember seeing a picture of an 'L'-shaped plastic battery box under the hood with room for 2 batteries. It's unfortunately impossible to search effectively the photos either here or on the Yahoo Group. Anyone else remember seeing it? Got a link? I've only tracked down 1 picture with 2 batteries under the hood from the following post:- "The diesel has 2 batteries under the hood but they are both engine batteries hooked in parallel to get the engine spinning. It still has the coach battery under the dinette seat on the passenger side. The one on the passenger side (the 2nd one) sits on a factory battery plate with a factory plastic tray and uses a factory hold down just like the primary one on the driver's side." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I've been searching here and the Yahoo Group for Toyota Motorhomes with the coach/house battery under the hood. I read a very few references to this that seem to be mainly Sunraders (1 Mini-Mirage and Dolphin mentioned). These are typical comments:- "My 84 Sunrader has the truck battery on the drivers side and the house battery on the passenger side either side of the radiator." "I just purchased 3 LifeLine AGM batteries for my 4x4 Sunrader. I replaced the small group size 24 80AH house battery under the hood ..." All references seem to be '84 and earlier with the following exception:- "I have seen more dual under-the-hood batteries in Sunraders than any other brand -- even as late as 1988." Here's my question: Can anyone confirm having seen a coach/house battery under the hood with a 22R-E (fuel injected)? I also seem to remember seeing a picture of an 'L'-shaped plastic battery box under the hood with room for 2 batteries. It's unfortunately impossible to search effectively the photos either here or on the Yahoo Group. Anyone else remember seeing it? Got a link? I've only tracked down 1 picture with 2 batteries under the hood from the following post:- "The diesel has 2 batteries under the hood but they are both engine batteries hooked in parallel to get the engine spinning. It still has the coach battery under the dinette seat on the passenger side. The one on the passenger side (the 2nd one) sits on a factory battery plate with a factory plastic tray and uses a factory hold down just like the primary one on the driver's side." My Chinook came with the "house" battery under the hood. For a modern RV, I can't think of many (if any) good reasons to do it that way. Back 20-30 years ago - DC to AC inverters were not common in RVs because they were huge, heavy, and made very poor square-wave AC power. A few even used vacuum tubes. Now with inverters being efficient, small, light and cheap it's common to find them in RVs. If you have the house batteries in front under the hood - it's near impossible to wire-in an inverter in back. Even if NOT using an inverter - with a 12 volt system there is an enormous voltage drop from front to back. To do so, huge battery cable would be needed for medium to high amp draw in the rear with 12 volts DC. The argument for rear mounted house batteries is much better then for under-hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 So both batteries in 1 box or 1 in each front corner? I don't really know my way around under the hood of the 22R and 22R-E. I think the 22R had the battery on the driver's side but it was moved to the passenger side to make room for the 22R-E's air filter. Or maybe the other way around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I have not seen one. The AFM and air cleaner take up the space where the house battery would go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 my 1986 22re EFI has its battery in the box under the coach bed; where it should be; as close to the converter and fusepanel as possible. I can say that there is PLENTY of room under the hood of the vehicle for a spare battery though... just curious why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 I kind of figured that other than the comment made by 'a respected member' of the Yahoo Group. "I have seen more dual under-the-hood batteries in Sunraders than any other brand -- even as late as 1988." But I have noticed the occasional flub made by the same person. This might be another. I have to be careful what I post there. Wouldn't want to get put on 'Moderation' again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 If I were going to add an additional battery and didnt feel like building a larger vent box as well as having huge cable to run to it; the engine bay would be a logical choice, especially if I were adding solar panels and wanted to keep the weight forward.... it seems logical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 ... just curious why do you ask? Guess I'm just looking for the answer to something I've been wondering. Toyota motorhome owners don't seem to be too interested about what goes under the hood. Not like hot rodders. There aren't too many photos of the engines, though not too surprising because 99% are all the same. Bone stock. One of the few exceptions I've come across:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Having a "house" battery in front makes little sense since the RV appliances are in back. If the batteries are back mounted, wire sizes can be much more reasonable and more amp draw will be available. Not all batteries have to be vented. Sealed AGMS to not need any venting if building a vented box is a problem. All my RVs have rear mounted 2000 or 3000 watt inverters and that would be impossible with a front mounted battery. 1987 Toyota with EFI 2.4 and cranking battery goes on the passenger side. 1978 Toyota Chinook camper with two batteries under hood. "House" battery setup on driver's side. Not an ideal place for a "house" battery. 1993 Winnebago Warrior Toyota with cranking battery under the hood and "house" battery in the RV body. My 1986 diesel 4WD Blazer-Hallmark pop-up roof RV. Similar to my Chinook-build Chalet. With gas engine has the "house" battery in front under the hood. Now has dual cranking batteries in front due to the diesel engine and dual deep cycle batteries all the way in back as "house" power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Now THAT is cool... rear mounted underneath... nothing above to burn because its the bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 I was looking at the very nice Winnebago wiring diagrams last night and find it a little surprising they didn't include one for the generator option. Would have been useful for last night's discussion about which battery starts the generator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 my 1978 minimax 20 r had the same setup as the CHINOOK . i will say i owen two 22re an 87 dolphon and a 88 4wd i havent seen much room under the hood for a second battery on those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 OK I found it.This is the picture I remember seeing on the toyota-campers site but it wasn't Mike's it was Norma's. 1988 Sunrader with a big box under the hood with 2 batterys. One is her truck and the other is the coach http://groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-campers/photos/album/1432968488/pic/1117508465/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Good find. That might be the one I remember seeing. Now, is that a standard battery box found in all '88s that has had 2 batteries squeezed into? I've also got to wonder how big (small, actually) each of those batteries are. Funny, FWIW, I was looking through Albums earlier and actually looking through Norma's when I got to the Yorkie pictures just before this one when I gave up! If I had HS internet I probably would have continued! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Good find. That might be the one I remember seeing. Now, is that a standard battery box found in all '88s that has had 2 batteries squeezed into? I've also got to wonder how big (small, actually) each of those batteries are. Funny, FWIW, I was looking through Albums earlier and actually looking through Norma's when I got to the Yorkie pictures just before this one when I gave up! If I had HS internet I probably would have continued! I don't think it's very common. I think she posted it cause she needed that washer fluid bottle in there and couldn't find anything that thin. Don't know what she ended up with. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Following some breadcrumbs (as I often do), I came across this. Supposedly an '87 4x4 Turbo in Portland Oregon. http://gottheshot.smugmug.com/Other/87-turbo-4x4/17181865_7Zzrhp#!i=1302707066&k=cKqWWPb&lb=1&s=A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 My 79 20r dolphin had the battery under the hood as welll as an 80 dolpphin I looked at. They use an aftermarket kit that's very common to relocate the overflow bottle. It looks awkkward still being square but its in the middle. My 79 had three batteries one in the coach also Batteries in bothe corners. Friends 81 sunrader with read bed room has the battery in the coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Having a "house" battery under the hood makes no sense to me. Here are the copper wire sizes needed to keep voltage loss at 3% or less (standard for good wiring). If the length for wire from house battery to load is 15 feet . . 10 amps - 10 AWG, 15 amp - 8 AWG, 20 amp - 6 AWG, 30 amp - 4AWG, 50 amp - 2 AWG, 100 amp - 0 AWG If the length for wire from house battery to load is 10 feet . . . 10 amps - 12 AWG, 15 amp - 10 AWG, 20 amp - 8 AWG, 30 amp - 6 AWG, 50 amp - 4 AWG, 100 amp - 2 AWG, 150 amp - 0 AWG, 200 amp - 00 AWG If the length for wire from house battery to load is only 5 feet . . . 10 amps - 14 AWG, 15 amp - 12 AWG, 20 amp - 10 AWG, 30 amp - 10 AWG, 50 amp - 8 AWG, 100 amp - 4 AWG, 200 amp - 2 AWG, 400 amp - 00 AWG Having the house battery 5 feet from the load allows a 4000 watt inverter to be wired in for AC power. Make wiring for eveything much easier. A 3-way fridge on 12 volts DC draws 8 - 10 amps, a DC compressor fridge draws 4-6 amps, a propane furnace 6-10 amps, a 19" LCD TV and DVD player draws 7 amps, fan 6-14 amps, etc. Much easier to have the house battery in back near the loads and have just one big wire from front to back for house battery charging. #6 is usally all that it needed with a Toyota (Nippo Denso/Hitachi) 45-60 amp alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 All this assumes the builders followed a 'standard for good wiring'. Many manufacturers didn't seem too shy about cutting some corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I agree JD, but what if they want an additional battery in parallel? this isnt too bad then. the nearer battery is still there at the correct place. just addes extra capacity with the weight forward. I see nothing wrong with it with proper wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Did a bit more 'looking' this AM. Sunrader (not too surprisingly) makes no mention of a generator on their generic wiring diagram. Winnebago very clearly show the generator hooked to the coach battery in their 319RB wiring diagram. On the Winnebago drawing, I've got to wonder what the difference is between a 'power vent' and a 'ceiling fan'? Ceiling fan? OUCH!! Sunrader Wiring Diagram.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 No sign of a generator here (321RB - 321RL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Did Sunraders come standard with generators? Mine doesn't have one. It has the compartment though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanthogar Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 My 1983 Dolphin has the corner batteries in front wish I could run batteries in series but there's no room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorbob Posted February 3, 2013 Share Posted February 3, 2013 I have both batteries under the hood. 1987 Sunrader on a 1986 Toyota. They sit in a fiberglass box together, on the passenger side behind the headlight. The box also houses the window washer fluid tank. I was out shopping for Batteries today. Finding a match for the 1986 Toyota pick up was no problem at Walmart. 11" long, 7" wide and 8" high. MAXX 24N. Now I need a coach battery. The space for it is 9" long, 7" wide and 8" high. The dimensions and post location seem pretty easy to find, I just don't know if there is a "special" battery for the coach? Or will any old battery fitting the space will do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 3, 2013 Author Share Posted February 3, 2013 You'll definitely want a deep cycle battery. But selection (and storage capacity) is going to be very limited. I'm guessing that's why it's so rare to find the coach/house battery installed under the hood. I'd consider finding another location for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 I have both batteries under the hood. 1987 Sunrader on a 1986 Toyota. They sit in a fiberglass box together, on the passenger side behind the headlight. The box also houses the window washer fluid tank. I was out shopping for Batteries today. Finding a match for the 1986 Toyota pick up was no problem at Walmart. 11" long, 7" wide and 8" high. MAXX 24N. Now I need a coach battery. The space for it is 9" long, 7" wide and 8" high. The dimensions and post location seem pretty easy to find, I just don't know if there is a "special" battery for the coach? Or will any old battery fitting the space will do? The only deep-cylce battery I know of that will fit in that small space is a BCI type # 22. It measures 9" X 5 1/2" X 8 1/16" tall. Trojan sells one as # 22-AGM. Rated at 50 amp-hours and weighs 40 lbs. It is a 1000 cycle battery. That means it is designed to be discharged to 50%, 1000 times before it's worn out. They also come as type 22NF and are totally sealed AGMs (no venting needed). Often used in electric wheelchairs. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000W6Z2X2/ref=asc_df_B000W6Z2X22181952?smid=A2PVHCCZU2W0WR&tag=NXTGID&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B000W6Z2X2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorbob Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Here is my wiring diagram. My Power Converter/ DC distribution panel has a battery charger built-in. Is a wheel chair battery still what I need? Why do I have to have the truck running to turn on the interior camper lights, bath fan and door handle light? Sunrader wiring diagram20130204_06000380.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Heres a chart that gives you an idea of battery size and group designation.Group Size ChartFrom the dimensions you gave, it looks like you have a group 22, I think most of us have a group 27 mounted in the coach.Take the old battery to Walmart and see what they have The photo is to small and I can't see what you have. Preferably you want a deep cycle, but the world won't end if your forced to get a regular.Look around and see if you can mount a battery somewhere in the coach. keep in mind you need to have it vented to the outside world as the battery produces hydrogen gas, remember the Hindenburg :-( Again, the world isn't going to end if you can't move the batteryIf your considering other batteries, I use this battery in my airplane. It can be mounted in any position (even upside down). These can be placed in an enclosed area, but should still have a vent to the outside world as they do produce a small amount of hydrogen. I'm not recommending this battery for you, they are about 4 times the cost of a conventional lead acid, but this could give you some ideas.Odyssey BatteryJohn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorbob Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 What you are seeing is the new Walmart truck battery and the space for the coach battery. I'm going to leave the batteries were they are. All of the wiring is in place and this was how Sunrader intended it to be. I have a built-in generator too. I think I need to take it to someone who understands this better than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 4, 2013 Share Posted February 4, 2013 Here is my wiring diagram. My Power Converter/ DC distribution panel has a battery charger built-in. Is a wheel chair battery still what I need? Why do I have to have the truck running to turn on the interior camper lights, bath fan and door handle light? The DC powered lights, fixtures, appliances, etc. all should work regardless if the engine is running or not. That is what the aux battery is for. On most RVs, the converter box has a selector switch. It must be in "bat" or 12 volt DC " position for things to work when not hooked to an outside AC source. There is an isolator that prevents the DC stuff in back from working off the starting battery. If your aux battery is dead or missing - things in back won't work when the engine is "off" but might when the engine is "on." That depends on what sort of isolator you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorbob Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Okay, for starters I learned that the Deep Cycle Battery goes in the Larger part of the battery box and the engine battery in the smaller part. Took battery back To Wal-Mart and exchanged for same size deep cycle and purchased new smaller size engine battery. (All of a sudden the wires all reach there correct post.) The next challange is to figure out what wires go to what battery! The only thing I know for sure is what positive and negative cables start the engine. My wiring diagram does not show the generator. Edited February 5, 2013 by Gatorbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 This sounds like its making sense now...If you can post a large photo of the battery area, this might help in identifying what wires go where.John Mc 88 Dolphin $ Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorbob Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Just posted photos on #32 Now that I know how to compress photos, I'll post a few more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I see to many terminals on wires. Do you have higher resolution photos?John Mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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