Who has (or has seen) the Coach Battery under the hood?

[Sunrading Arkansas]

Looks like I have some more work to do....

My house battery is on the driver's side...at least I'm pretty sure that's it. And the engine battery is in the opposite corner...or the other way around?

Either way looks like I will be looking for a place to move the house battery closer to the converter and perhaps a new converter (any help here would be greatly appreciated).

....Seems like every time I check in here my to-do list grows!

[5Toyota]

THE OLDER UNIT I HAD 1978 BOTH BATTERIES UNDER THE HOOD. USED TWO GROUP 24 SIZE BATTERIES. THE GROUP 24 DEEP CYCLE IS THE SMALLER SIZE UNDER THE GROUP 27 it STILL DID A GOOD JOB FOR US.

[5Toyota]

WAITER THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN THE GROUP 27 AND 24 IN CASE SIZE IS THE LENGTH. HT AND WTH IS THE SAME. THE POWER RATE IS OF COURSE LOWER.

[83 SunRader]

I have an '83 Sunrader on 1984 Toyota and both my batteries are located in the engine compartment. It does make using my inverter kind of a pain because I'm currently connecting it to the converter in the back of the house via alligator clips on the main incoming battery terminals. So I'm constantly clipping and un-clipping the alligator clips when I want to use the inverter (pretty much everyday). Plus the inverter sits on the floor directly in front of the galley and head (high traffic area) and I'm tripping over the cables running down the aisle. I'm currently investigating where to try and mount the inverter permanently and run the wires directly to the battery. I'm looking at the area near the bucket seats to mount the inverter since that is where I use my computer the most.

[Maineah]

Shopping list time.....insulated pairs of quick disconnect plugs.

NAPA, 50 amp about $12.

[Eve "n" Stephen]

I have an 18 ft, 1984 Sunrader and when I got it, both batteries were under the hood. I moved the coach battery under the seat on the drivers side, just in front of the metal propane tank enclosure. I disconnected it from the generator and converter. It's only hooked to solar panels. We are pretty low power users and have never run the 108 AH battery low. We're occasionally running the heater, have all LED lighting and a 400 watt inverter for the laptop and charging camera batteries. Oh, must NOT forget the coffee grinder too!

Steve

[stamar]

was there such thing as a stock toyhome generator in 1984 and what would it have been?

do you mean you disconnected it from the isolator and the alternator?

[Sunnynshare]

Here is how Sunrader did it in 1987. Kim

http://youtu.be/1R3c2EO4l-Y

[Sunrading Arkansas]

I relocated mine to the rear propane tank compartment on my 83, just ran 4ga copper battery cable from the Isolator down the frame. A size 29 fits PERFECTLY in the compartment...If I could ditch the propane tank (get an undercarriage tank) I could fit 3 size 29s in there.

Added benefit is I now have a battery holder space in the engine bay I can use for something interesting.....hmmm. Thought it might be neat to get a Size 24 "display" battery from an auto parts store (if they'd let me buy one) and use it as a mini tool box up there...or for spare parts for long trips (water pump, thermostat, various gaskets, etc)...or maybe just a spare starting battery so I can run the Stereo while stopped without fear......

[zero]

I relocated mine to the rear propane tank compartment on my 83, just ran 4ga copper battery cable from the Isolator down the frame. A size 29 fits PERFECTLY in the compartment...If I could ditch the propane tank (get an undercarriage tank) I could fit 3 size 29s in there.

I did the same with my Chinook except I relocated the propane tank and installed two "house" batteries. They are hooked to the front via #2 copper to carry 100 amps if needed. Having the batteries in back makes using a large inverter possible.

[zero]

wouldn't three house batteries in the back turn the RV into a lopsided "tail dragger"?

I said two batteries, not three, That being said - side to side balance IS an issue. Tail-dragging isn't with the progressive spring package I put in. I'm working at relocating several items to attempt to keep the weight near equal on both sides. It's not easy since most everything seems to fit best on the driver's side.

[Derek up North]

If I could ditch the propane tank (get an undercarriage tank) I could fit 3 size 29s in there.

[Totem]

you can keep batteries wherever you want its the crazy thick gauge service wires that you will need to avoid the voltage drop that's the problem...

[zero]

Not being familiar with setting up house battery systems...

so Arkansas has relocated his battery to the rear...

but he now has the space in the front where the old battery was located.

Do you have to keep house batteries side by side? Is there some reason they be located remote from each other?

If you are using multiple house batteries and they are the same voltage, as in 12 volt, do they have to be the same size and type of battery as the other house battery?

Batteries do not have to be near each other or the same size. But - if they if they do not have equal voltage and are hooked together - they will "self-discharge" faster then if the batteries are perfectly matched.

12 volt batteries of different sizes, brands and ages will vary in voltage. If two mismatched batteries are left on a battery maintainer when not in use - it won't matter much.

In regard to distance between two house batteries - it's all about current draw and wire sizes. You can have 12 volt batteries in parallel or 6 volt batteries in series - with any spacing you want IF the cable sizes are correct.

It can get a little complicated though. Say you've got a 100 amp-hour battery in front that is 17 feet from the load in back. And you've got a second 100 amp-hour battery in back that is 15 feet from the first battery and 2 feet from the load. If you wish to have the ability to get full use from both batteries and less then 2% loss - you'd need seventeen feet of #2 gauge copper to the battery in front and two feet of #4 wire to the battery in back. If both were in back next to each other and 2 feet from the load - two feet of #4 copper would be big enough for both batteries.

It gets even more complicated if using a couple of 6 volt batteries in series to make 12 volts unless they are right next to each other. A typical Trojan type T105 6 volt deep cycle batteries - if used as a pair and only two feet apart need #4 copper gauge cable to connect them. If five feet part they need one-ought (#1/0 copper). If seven feet apart they'd need double-ought (00_ copper. Any distance further then that is not practical due to cable-size requirements.

[Totem]

yep, +1 to what he said ^

[zero]

Thanks, I did think it was possible to do it but just wanted to make sure. I know there are online charts and calculators for it. I can't see wasting the space where the current house battery is located if I can still use it for a battery for a multiple house bank.

The big draw-back to having distant batteries is if you want to use a decent sized DC to AC inverter. A 2000 watt inverter can draw 350 amps of current at 12 volts. A 3000 watt can draw 400 amps. It's near impossible to do it with the inverter in back and any of the "house" batteries in front.

[Sunrading Arkansas]

My main reason for relocating the house battery to the rear was so I could use a size 29 (instead of a size 24)...and from what I had read it was not good to run different sizes for the reasons jd expressed...plus it just seemed to complicate the wiring too much for me (current draw vs wire guage vs distance, etc, etc). The Microwave was a secondary reason but it sure is handy, especially in conjunction with our 2qt mini crockpot (http://www.target.com/p/crock-pot-2-qt-slow-cooker-red/-/A-14232098#prodSlot=medium_1_12&term=2qt+crock+pot - draws 100w on high)!

As to the 3 size 29s, only reason I would go to 3 would be if I was boondocking/full-timing and had a solar setup. But as jd has done, two would be handy and not too heavy. I am considering adding air-bags so I can/could off-set the difference. Now with the battery relocated to the rear I at least have the option to do some of these upgrades if I ever want to.

[Maineah]

For the cost and aggravation of using a whole bunch of batteries, and cables (want an eye opener price #1 cables by the foot and connectors) 2000-3000 watt inverters over sized alternators with squealing belts you can buy a nice 2K watt Honda generator that would last until your old and gray and have all power where ever you are and when you want it. Yes it uses gasoline but not very much as little as it would be used. Or you could reduce your needs and live with two stock batteries and the system that is all ready in place.

[zero]

Good point, fortunately I don't anticipate the need for a large capacity inverter but I realize some people do need that much power as they can't live without a microwave

For myself - I'd never install an inverter just to have a micowave. Having an inverter allows me to use an AC refrigerator is wanted. Also any AC powered TV, DVD player, etc. It also makes a "mobil power unit" out of my RV so I can run power tools anywhere I go. I used my RV two summers to power an air compressor, nail gun and saws while building a house. It has nothing to do with my "failing to thrive" without a microwave.

Yes - I've heard all the negatives posted about batteries and inverters. Also heard the many postivies about having a separate generator. Hey . . to each his own. I see complaining about a little extra weight as absurd. An inverter weighs around 6 pounds. A good aux battery weighs around 60 lbs.

As I see it . . a Toyota already has an engine and a generator as part of the original truck design. That engine-mounted belt-driven generator is 630 watts on old Toyotas and late 80s models have 840 watt generators (AKA alternators). Even it someone sticks with just one RV battery and uses an inverter - the 840 watts from the alternator can deliver 70 amps at 14 volts. If the engine is run and the addition of just one 110 AH battery is used - that makes 190 amps of DC current available @ 12 volts. That is over 2000 watts of AC power capability right there and NO Honda genset needed.

I like just having one engine to deal with since I rarely need the extra power anyway. If I had to run a roof-top AC all day or night - then I'd prefer a separate generator. But if that WAS the case - I'd quit camping in areas that hot.

I'll also comment that contrary to what others claim - Honda generators also have problems at times. I've had many come here for repairs over the years. Are they one of the best? Yes. Do they ever fail? Yes again.

In a nutshell - an RV with just one aux battery and one 2000 watt inverter can make 1200 watts of AC power. If used with the Toyota engine running - it can make 2000 watts if wired correctly. NO extra weight worth mentioning. Add a second aux battery and an inverter and 2400 watts of AC power is available. Start the engine with the two batteries and 3400 watts of AC power can be made. Not full-time off course. If full time continuous high amp power is needed then a separate generator is the answer.

Note that when I camp in a rural area -even if there is just one other camper nearby - I'd never run my truck engine OR any genset. When I go somewhere rural and hear some idiot fire up their generator and run it all day or night - I'd like to go over and smash the thing. It's just plain rude. If someone has a battery-inverter setup - AC power can be made for a night of camping with no noise at all. I don't care what claims are made about how quiet Hondas are. They make noise and it makes camping in a rural setting kind of surreal and aggravating - in my opinion. Especially when you get to a so-called "rural" campground and 20 RVs have their gensets running.

When camping - we used to search out only campgrounds with no electricity because they were the most rural and quiet. Now things are often backwards. Often the campsites with AC power are the most quiet and ones without AC have people running gensets.

[zero]

For the cost and aggravation of using a whole bunch of batteries, and cables (want an eye opener price #1 cables by the foot and connectors) 2000-3000 watt inverters over sized alternators with squealing belts you can buy a nice 2K watt Honda generator that would last until your old and gray and have all power where ever you are and when you want it. Yes it uses gasoline but not very much as little as it would be used. Or you could reduce your needs and live with two stock batteries and the system that is all ready in place.

I just bought some copper battery cable last month. $2.70 per foot for #2 gauge and $3.24 per foot for #1 gauge. A toyota RV needs around 15-17 feet of cable to connect front to back. For #2 copper we're talking a one-time cost of $40-$50. You call that a problem and an expensive Honda generator is not? Can't say I agree with that reasoning. Connectors are a little over one dollar each. You call that an "eye opener?"

I'm also wondering what exactly is more aggravating? Batteries and inverter the require near zero maintainance and flip on with a switch?

Or a fuel powered generator that must run to work (sometimes they do not) and takes up more room then the forementioned.

My Chinook costs:

15 feet of #2 copper cable - $40.50

Ring-connectors for #2 cable - $1.09 each.

Inverter - 2000 watt/4000 watt surge - $139

120-140 amp alternator if wanted (GM CS144) $120-$150 if bought new and not rebuilt

[Maineah]

Still if it ain't broke don't fix it. One can spend hours finding the best buy on wire or drive across town to fetch it then they have to know what they are doing, lay under the MH for hours, swedge the cable ends oops another tool go buy batteries that will last maybe 5 years carry the extra weight install an alternator that was not made for a Toyota again not having a clue what they are doing or pay some one to do it. find isolators to carry the load. Learn carpentry to build a place for the batteries make sure they are vented pour water in them once in awhile so they can make it 5 years. Using a 130 HP engine and a big alternator to charge the battery bank sitting still seems a bit over the top unless you have a 3 hour drive any way. This is why I suggested the Honda they start. Any one can get them running from a child to some one in their 90's it weights less then two 105's well actually less then one and about the same size as one requires minutes of maintenance at the most once a year. It is a complex operation though you have to plug in the MH power cord once it's running. A little generator can also be used to power your home furnace and some light when it's 10 degrees out and the ice storm just took down the power lines. I guess my point is if you start from scratch with $300+ for 2 105's a quality inverter 200 to 500 dollars, isolators in the 200 amp range $50 big alternator $150, cables, fuses etc. add your time or pay some one you have the price of a brand new Honda or Yamaha plug and play 2K generator and then some.

[Maineah]

For myself the decision between better house battery power with an inverter versus a generator will come down to weight. Not as in how much a battery weighs but in lifting and moving a generator around.

2K Honda full of oil and gas just about 50#.

[Maineah]

Bummer.I don't think any one has made a 20# 2K generator yet! Bet they would sell. Any threat you'll be able to lift more in the future?

[Totem]

Oversized alternator made for Toyota; $530, delete cat converter or jegs stainless high flow,$60. Inverter $120. Done for $710. Still cheaper than a Honda; but Honda + capacitor = air conditioning. I am more and more sold on the Honda each day.

[zero]

Oversized alternator made for Toyota; $530, delete cat converter or jegs stainless high flow,$60. Inverter $120. Done for $710. Still cheaper than a Honda; but Honda + capacitor = air conditioning. I am more and more sold on the Honda each day.

Who in their right mind is going to pay $530 for an alternator upgrade on a Toyota truck? That is unless wasting money is of no concern. A decent upgrade can be done for $150 or less. A Delco CS130 fits nicely and a Delco CS144 will also fit with a little fabrication. $120-$150 new - not rebuilt - if a person shops around. Half that for used alternators.

I'm not sure what you mean by "made for Toyota." Some later vehicles DO have alternators that rely on the OEM onboard computers to regulate them. Not on any 70s-90s Toyota trucks I've aware of. The OEM Hitachis or Densos have integral voltage regulators just like the Delco CS130s and CS144s do. That is except for some of the Toyotas that use external but stand-alone regulators. The principal of operation is the same for all.

If the alternator is single V-belt drive - anything over 80-90 amps of charge will start the belt slipping and burning. The "big" 120 or 140 amp alternators are often used NOT to make 120-140 amps. It's to make 50-60 amps when the engine is at idle speed. The smaller OEM 45 and 60 amp alternators can only make around 25-30 amps at engine idle. The Delco CS-144 is well known for it's low-speed high-charge capability. So is the smaller CS-130 to a lesser degree. Very common in junkyards off of early 90s S10 pickups.

For someone who does not do their own fabrication,there are also kits with all the pre-made brackets to fit the older Delco 12SI alternators into Toyotas. They are one of the cheapest alternators on the market. Used in 80s cars, trucks, farm tractors,etc. Not as efficient or compact as the Delco CS series that took the place of the SI, but good enough for a low-budget upgrade. $25 at many junkyards and often $75 brand new (just the alternator). A 12 SI can charge around 35 amps at engine idle speed depending on the pulley ratio.

If somebody really did want 140 amps from a belt driven alternator - it would take twin groove V-pulleys or a flat-ribbed type belt drive. That is pretty hard to do on an older Toyota.

That all being said - an OEM 60 amp alternator on a mid-80s Toyota truck will charge plenty if revved up a bit.

[zero]

Not a chance...I had two disc removed from my lower back in 1985 and my upper back is a mess too. But I do what I can and get help with what I can't do on my own. Projects take me a lot longer to get done as I do short work sessions with resting my back between. I can move almost as fast as a toyhome going up a steep hill ;-)

Didn't they put anything back in after removing your discs? I had four taken out. Lower back and neck. Every time - they cut off a piece of my hip bone and jammed it into the gaps in the vertebrae where the discs have been. After each operation it was light lifting for a year and then - back to doing what I normally do. And that - I'm sure is not great for my long-term health. Not sure it's bad either. I've know plenty people who had discs removed and spinal fusion fusion . . . who never lifted anything after that. Many of them fell part faster then I have. It's kind of a toss of the dice since we are all built different. My first fusion was done 28 years ago. Still holding as far as I can tell. The steel rod and plates in my leg bothers me more then any of the fusions.

[cjac]

My 84 mrv Savannah has two batteries under the hood. Coach battery on drivers side. Truck is on the passenger side

[sweetleon]

Hi,

Apologies for joining this discussion so late. I've recently acquired an 18' Sunrader (yay) that needs a lot of interior renovation. 

As you can see in the photo, my new rig has 3 batteries under the hood. From what I can tell, the one on the driver side is for the engine, and the two on the passenger side are for the house. The battery near the radiator is recharged by the alternator and the one near the cab is recharged by a solar panel. Apparently, I'll need to switch the cables that hookup to the house/cabin manually between these two batteries.

Is this setup reasonable? Is there anything I should do with it or about it?

Thanks!