Marco1503 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 getting solar panels for my rig soon and i was wondering if i should sell my generator.. i was planning on keeping it in case of an emergency like solar panels not working,, im getting a 3500 inverter and six 100 watt solar panels with 6 deep cycle batteries. i should have electric all the time and i think my rv needs over half a tank of gas for the onan to run... im also guessing my gas mileage will be better if i do get rid of the onan since i will be driving the toyota alot. also the space of the onan has value since every bit of space counts in a toyota. guess i could put the batteries there.. any comments concerns tips will be well appreciated.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 The main reason for the generator is to run the Air conditioner. If you don't need it for that yeah sell it. Thats alot of batteries Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 well I guess it matters on what you get for it. Its still useful to charge your 300 pounds of deep cycle batteries. If you are driving the rv a lot get all led lights thats like 10 free amps of charging. then look into a ebay alternator http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOYOTA-4-RUNNER-1992-to-1985-2-4L-eng-REMAN-ALTERNATOR-60-AMP-/160953235599?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1985%7CMake%3AToyota%7CModel%3APickup&hash=item25798f788f&vxp=mtr not the best but definitely the best deal seeing as its cheaper than the regular alternator. to charge those babies back up. Ya well Id try it all out first and then if the generator isnt ever being used I guess I would can it. I dont understand the batteries i think 2 or 3 deep cycles covers most of it why not start there then expand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 oh also as far as spots for batteries I personally think about yanking out the converter and its huge cord. That might seem counter intuitive but in yours and my case the toyhome is never going to plug in again to a landline and if it ever did just get an extension cord. theres space for 3 batteries right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I think I meant this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-4Runner-Pick-up-High-Output-Alternator-95-Amp-22R-85-92-/120863996253?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1985%7CMake%3AToyota%7CModel%3APickup&hash=item1c240e395d&vxp=mtr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 getting solar panels for my rig soon and i was wondering if i should sell my generator.. .. You need a way to keep your batteries above 12.2 volts (50% charge) or you'll shorten their useful lives. Subsequently you need a plan to charge them when needed. I can't speak for where you live - but here in NY there are 6-8 weeks out of the year when the solar panels make nothing. If you had 3-4 days with no solar charging - what is your "backup" to charge the batteries? I guess just running the engine would work in a pinch but that depends on how much power you use. If your 6 batteries were run down low - and you have the OEM 45 or 60 amp alternator, with the engine idling . . it would take a full day to recharge your batteries. You could rev the engine up and cut that time in half - of install a bigger alternator that charges 50 amps at engine idle. The lightest and most fuel efficient way to charge batteries when the solar is not working is to have a small engine-driven DC generator "bulk charger." Many off-grid solar users have them. You couple a small 3-6 horse motor to a 50-100 amp alternator. When you fire it up it runs a full 50-100 amp charge and the engine runs at it's max efficiency speed. Uses much less fuel then using your truck engine or your Onan hooked to a battery charger. The unit will weigh around 70-80 lbs. You can buy a brand new 5 horse engine from Harbor Freight for $100 and an alternator for $25-$50. If you want plans for one, post again. On my Chevy Blazer-Chalet RV I swapped in a 140 amp alternator for the reason of house battery bank charging. It will charge 60 amps at engine idle. Some of the newer higher-tech alternators are pretty light and compact. Not much bigger then the original 45 amp alternator in older Toyotas or the 60 amp alternator in late 80s Toyotas. On a side-note, AC fuel driven gensets are known for not running conventional battery chargers very well. If a lot of charging is invovled and you want to use an AC generator - a higher tech battery charger is usually needed to get rated charge. A DC generator works much better - either with direct "bulk" charging or an inverter-type DC generator running an AC powered battery charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 If you feel it's some thing you need to do you can get big bucks for it lot more people want generators then solar panels. They are excellent generators make very clean power and run forever. Just out of curiosity where are you going to mount 6 100 watt panels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco1503 Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 YA BABY! im gonna put them on the roof they will actually cover the whole roof. and thanks everyone for all your info great tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 how much you want for that onan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 how much you want for that Onan? And is it a Microlite. The older models are just as loud as the Kohlers Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'm interested iin what panels you got as well I'm going to have 2 stick em panels and then one 225 watt crystal ppanel riight in the middle for around 500 watts. I thinkk with the set up you are trying to run a microwave however I'm not... I think if I were I would keeep the generator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'm interested iin what panels you got as well I'm going to have 2 stick em panels and then one 225 watt crystal ppanel riight in the middle for around 500 watts. I thinkk with the set up you are trying to run a microwave however I'm not... I think if I were I would keeep the generator You can run an inverter-microwave on two 115 amp-hour batteries and a 2000 watt sine-wave inverter. The new "inverter" microwaves that Panasonic came out with are pretty amazing. When the heat setting is turned down - they actually use less power unlike conventional microwaves that run fulll power and pulse "on' and "off" to make low heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 ya running and using daily are two different animals with the mindset of a weekend getaway running a microwave on 2 deep cylces works. and when the battery groans stop microwaving and get the rv home and plug it in. for a full timer thats going to kill batterys fast as theres no way to recharge 3 deep cycles brought to 50% boiling coffee. For a full timer you might need 6 deep cycles just to keep them alive and then wait a few days for solar panels to recharge them. When its all written out, carrying 6 deep cycles to use the microwave every three days is actually stupid. It can be done its just dumb I have definitely seen the inverter ones work better and im waiting for both the price to lower, and they release a small version of the inverter model. I think that might finally be an rv friendly microwave that makes a little more sense for a full timer. For the weekend getaway working is a different level of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 . When its all written out, carrying 6 deep cycles to use the microwave every three days is actually stupid. It can be done its just dumb I have definitely seen the inverter ones work better and im waiting for both the price to lower, and they release a small version of the inverter model. I think that might finally be an rv friendly microwave that makes a little more sense for a full timer. For the weekend getaway working is a different level of success. I've got the SD372S Panasonic Inverter microwave. .8 of a cubic foot and 925 watts max. I was skeptical and ran several tests on it and I'm now impressed. At lower settings it has 1/3 to 1/2 the amp draw of a conventional small 700 watt microwave. It can run on a steady 4 amps @ 120 VAC when on low. A conventional 700 watt unit at the low heat setting draws 13 amps, pulsing on and off. In regard to someone installing six batteries JUST to run a microwave - yeah that would seem a little silly. But who has mentioned doing such a thing? If somebody already has the battery power for multiple reasons - then yes - the inverter microwave makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 What else would that kind of battery set up be for? It could be for coffee makers or whatever... household equipment or tools would be sommething. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I'm making an estimate with the wrong person But if a 900 watt inverter microwave uses half the power but more importantly half the ppeak power of a 700 watt ppower waster model Then a t500 watt inverter model can use one quarter the power and now were talking toyhomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 There's actually another technology with the inverter that I'm not looking up but its the inverter convection oven. That's what I thought you meant. I will look it up again but its the new rv thing and uses both the heated air and microwave. Definitely a in between of the two and uses much less power than a microwave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 There's actually another technology with the inverter that I'm not looking up but its the inverter convection oven. That's what I thought you meant. I will look it up again but its the new rv thing and uses both the heated air and microwave. Definitely a in between of the two and uses much less power than a microwave. A conventional microwave oven runs at full amp rating regardless of how the heat setting is put at. A small 700 watt microwave might be rated at 13 amps at 120 VAC. Run it at the lowest heat setting and it still draws 13 amps - but cycles on and off to keep heat low. An inverter microwave uses "pulse width modulation" to provide steady heat and steady amp-draw. If you set it on "low' it runs on "low" constantly. The problem with running a microwave off of batteries and an inverter is those high amp surges at 13 amps. Even dual batteries rated 120 amp-hours each will suffer from a voltage drop below 10-11 volts and the DC to AC inverter used to power the microwave will shut off. I tested a new pair of Trojan T-105s hooked in series. They can handle up to a 10 amp @ 120 VAC (on the inverter output) before DC voltage drops low enough to shut the inverter off. That comes to around a 120 amp draw at 11-12 volts DC on the batteries. I found that just by starting the engine and getting an extra 30 amps of charge current to the batteries from the alternator is enough to let the microwave run at 12 - 13 amps. To sum it up - two batteries run the 950 watt inverter microwave fine up to around the 3/4 highest heat setting. For the highest heat - the engine has to be started. Very few battery companies give voltage drop specs per amp draw. So it is not always easy to figure; Outback DOES give those specs for their big AGM batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Marco, If the genny is already installed and operating. Why not leave it until you figure out how you'll use it. Same with the Solar install. Yes, the pickup for the genny is high in the gas tank so it will not run your tank to empty. I doubt you'd be able to document any change in fuel mileage by getting rid of the genny. In our toyhouse, mileage is driven more by by air resistance and speed than by weight. (6,000 lbs vs 6,300 lbs isn't going to make a measurable difference) By the way, what are you running with the 3500 watt inverter? John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 If you have six batteries, and even if yyour solar set up works great an accident might discharge your batteries and you need a recharge to pprevent them being damaged. Your alternator can't recharge six batteries in one whole day And if you had the converter I have it would take weeks even plugged in. So id keep it around for a while and then sell it if I didn't use it for a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 That's the thing too is accidents in this semi hair brained battery operated microwave idea Is even with 1000 watts in solar, the first time you hit 40 minutes instead of four for popcorn you just destroyed six deep cycle batteries. I don't believe there's any rv out there that intended to run microwaves off batteries that's for a generator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 ... the first time you hit 40 minutes instead of four for popcorn you just destroyed six deep cycle batteries. Nobody would be stupid enough to do that! You'd also destroy the popcorn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I had a microwave that just randomly did that, just decided to go for thirty minutes no matter what you typed in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco1503 Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 well i was just thinking six batteries so that i could have more power if..say i don't have good sunlight for a week.. and someone just assumed i'll be using a microwave.. i'm gonna be full time rv camping and i will use the heater and a/c BUT I DON'T EVEN HAVE A MICROWAVE IN MY RIG AND I WONT BE BUYING ONE ANYTIME SOON. I'M COOKING ALL MY MEALS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Ok gotcha. You can't run the standard roof ac on batteries or solar you need the generator. And with that in mind you're not using a miicrowave so you don't need the batteries either. 600 watts i n solar doesn't hurt though for minor electronics. Batteries I'm not sure. I guess it doesn't hurt. For a battery powered ac project id try one of those cheap walmart window acs. That said there is no battery solar powered full time rv ac in the world that I kknow of. It iis a frequent forum topic with an unhappy ending. The smaller roof acs are good battery powered for a day or two... still couldn't solar power them. They're for a quick stop off with a trailer. Your roof ac was made for a gas powered generator the rest is just a dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 600 watts in solar panels and six deep cycles with an inverter would not power the roof ac full time or get close. I can remembe r trying to figure out how long it would go in burning man to the pperson I sold my last dolphin to and it was a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco1503 Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 great thanks. i'm considering keeping the genny.. and not too sure about six batteries maybe 4 or 5 tops. just to have a big battery bank in case there's a few days cloudy days about the roof a/c guess i could look into getting one of those walmart ones. or some small 12v fans and see how that works. and about the house ac guess i could get a small heater and run it off the batteries if i have too.. not sure if its possible though i have to look into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 there is a 12 volt roof mount vent hole swamp cooler dont rember the name of it . my freind had one on a winnibago. draws a little water from your water tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 There are a lot of swamp coolers. The ones just for rvs are too expensive new to be worth it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 That's the thing too is accidents in this semi hair brained battery operated microwave idea Is even with 1000 watts in solar, the first time you hit 40 minutes instead of four for popcorn you just destroyed six deep cycle batteries. I don't believe there's any rv out there that intended to run microwaves off batteries that's for a generator Nonsense. If someone hit the "40 minute" button on their microwave - as soon as the battery voltage spiked down to 10.5 volts even for a fraction of a second - the inverter would turn itself off. That happens long before the batteries are really discharged to 10.5 volts. There are many RVs and smaller conversion vans that come equipped with 700 watt conventional microwaves that can be used without a stand-alone generator. Same with many sleeper caps in over-the-road trucks. The ones I've seen in conversion vans require the engine to be running when using the microwave. The 30-40 amps from the alternator along with the power from the house battery is all that is needed for short term use. E.g heating a plate of food, cup of coffee, etc. Stamar - having your own ideas - good or bad is fine with me. But when you start calling other people's ideas "hair brained" you expose yourself as an ingrate and an idiot. You obviously know little about electronics as they apply to RVs. Attempting to disparage other's comments does nothing to elevate the quality of your's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 well i was just thinking six batteries so that i could have more power if..say i don't have good sunlight for a week.. and someone just assumed i'll be using a microwave.. i'm gonna be full time rv camping and i will use the heater and a/c BUT I DON'T EVEN HAVE A MICROWAVE IN MY RIG AND I WON'T BE BUYING ONE ANYTIME SOON. I'M COOKING ALL MY MEALS. I think I'm the one who first mentioned a microwave in this thread. I did so just to mention what could be done and never assumed anything about you wanting one or not. When you start talking about multiple batteries and large inverters I assume you've got some high-amp draw in mind. The most common high-amp-draw appliances in RVs are microwaves and air conditioners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm wondering how someone who doesn't think using a small microwave for a few minutes is possible would think it remotely possible to operate even the smallest window A/C on batteries. "For a battery powered ac project id try one of those cheap walmart window acs." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 It's all about wants and needs. What do you really need? Or do you want to put together an elaborate system to be able to use a microwave. To me if you insist on running high current devices keep the generator skip the solar. You'll have less to maintain and no added expense. I camp a week or more at a time with two batteries (160 amps) I have gone to great pains to reduce my power consumption I run my LED's a low current draw exhaust fan, water pump 100 watt ham radio and even watch a little TV without having to charge my two batteries. My needs do not include a microwave or A/C my propane stuff heats my water and cooks my food. There is a lot of merit to the k.i.s.s principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I think I'm the one who first mentioned a microwave in this thread. Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco1503 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 Alright so i just want to be safe when it comes to having power in my rig. I dont wanna be out somewhere with no power all the time. Heres what ill be running you guys can tell me what i need. - LED lights all through out 4-6 hrs a day - 2 cell phone chargers 3-5 hrs a day - laptop charger 5 hrs a day - verizon mifi will be plugged in 4-6 hrs a day - house computer will be set up as well with one of those plug in adaptors that hold a charge in case of power outtage while im working on the pc. 2-4 hrs a day - xbox 360 2-5 hrs a day - lcd 35 inch tv 2-5 hrs a day - small fans during summer 3-5 hrs a day -might of forgetten something but thats basically most things il be running. No a/c No heater (maybe a miniature one from walmart) No microwave (as i mentioned before i dont mind cooking my meals) If somebody could help me calculate just about how many batteries i need.how much solar wattage and what size inverter. i would really appreciate it. And another question.. if im using say 500 watts of power..would a 1,000watt inverter and a 1,500 watt inverter pull the same amount being only the 500 watts. or would the 1500 pull more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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