Should i sell my Onan?? getting solar panels....please help..

[stamar]

If you have six deep cycle batteries and you drained them all to 11volts

And you have no way to charge them but the vehicles own alternator and solar panels.....

You will shorten their life span permanently.

Not ruined the first time.

A window ac is way more dangerous than that but it works for a weekend burning man project. I don't know of someone that has done that yet its just academic.

There's just the difference between using a microwave for a special trip which is easy but using a microwave for every day use .

Why don't you get in touch with the fact that you're a babbling idiot who does not even have a toyhome or full time jd? Your advice is often so bad I feel compelled to warn people this is a babbling senile who does not have a toyhome .

It doesn't seem like you have full time experience running any electronics in an rv at all while mine is current, I have a solar powered toyhome right now.

[stamar]

Mario I think some things you'll eliminate like the tv and the pc computerl. If you literally aren't driving and aren't. Plugging in you can't put that much in solar panels on. A toyhome...

The whole calculation you have is ppretty complicated with different hours per day.

I think you have it figure out well and then you'll see what needs tuning when you go.

The panels themselves give you no guarantee. I put mine in in winter and it might do twice as much in summer or more.

I think you have a good set up in mind as good as anyone could get. I don't thinkk there's an rver here with more than 600 watts in panels to ask.

Getting more inverter than you need does waste power that's an easier calculation. Just add the watts you'll be using at once like the tv and the x box, and then multiply that by two.

I can't estimate you'll need more than a 1000 watt inverter I can picture you running the things at the same times.

A good alternative though is to get multiple small inverters for your set up. So have a switch for the tv and xbox, on a 300 watt inverter.

[stamar]

Btw you have mostly rv friendly devices other than an ac and a home pc and have a good plan as opposed to 90 percent of people. There's lots of full time rvers on other forums with solar set ups. I actually chat with trailer owners they are by definition long time no motion rvers. So I got my best advice from the airstream trailer forum.

I have 250 watts and all I power is this,

Cell phone and external chargerm led internal lights furnace laptop and tablet. The cars own stereo.

But I leave my tablet on 24 hours so it counts more than your devices.

I have no idea yet whether I have enough or I need to expand my battery bank like you plan to and that would make the difference.

I just got it this month so I'm going on two weeks experience. My batteries are totally full except when running the furnace all day. If I had three or four batteries I might not have even noticed my load exceeding my intake for a few days..... its possible my panel to usage ratio is almost right....

[stamar]

No one that posted in this thread is iinterested in a battery powered microwave.

When you see a 2000 watt inverter you assume.

Even so battery powered microwave in a tohome is a top 20 question for new owners including me.

My friend had a ford camper van with a single deep cycle and a microwave. No solar no generator no converter box. Needless to say it was less than conveneint to run the v8 engine to cooka tv dinner.

What the term hare brained means is someone who makes a quick decision based on little information. So a battery powered microwave is sort of a hare brained idea.

I came close to buying a small microwave for my rv when it was sitting in the driveway for a few months before I had experience with its electrical system

I think I reviewed everyones experience here and decided it didn't work as a regular thing...and if it doesn't work as a regular thing it doesn't have a good spot in a full tim rvers rig.

I think maineah had the best summary that any big powered electrical thing should have a generator. It is just self evident. Getting to all the reasons might be time consuming but its all the same.

A semi again has a battery powered microwave and it works because he's on the road. In theory same with my friends camper van. So for the minority it works fine.

[zero]

"If you have six deep cycle batteries and you drained them all to 11volts"

Again, it seems you know little about the subject being discussed. When an inverter is hooked to a battery bank to power a high-demand appliance e.g. a microwave - this is what happens. Let's say a pair of 120 amp-hour, 12 volt batteries. The microwave draws 10 amps @ 120 volts AC which results in a 100 amp draw on the 12 volt battery bank. The voltage immediately goes down to 11-11 1/2 volts. After 10-20 seconds the voltage goes down to 10.5 volts and the inverter shuts itself off. As soon as the amp-load is gone, the battery voltage goes back up. Seems you do not understand the relationship between load and volts. The battery bank could be only 20% discharged when the voltage gets low enough to trip the inverter "low voltage" breaker. It would be impossible to run the batteries down to even a safe 50% state of charge with a high-amp demand. You COULD do with a low-amp demand. Same principal applies to the starter motor in the truck. A 12 volt starter motor is designed to crank at 9 volts with a fully charged battery - NOT 12 volts. Demand = drop. Of course with a starter motor, this is NO low-voltage shut-off like an inverter has. Deep cycle batteries, in general, are designed to be safely discharged to 50%

[zero]

Getting more inverter than you need does waste power that's an easier calculation. Just add the watts you'll be using at once like the tv and the x box, and then multiply that by two.

I can't estimate you'll need more than a 1000 watt inverter I can picture you running the things at the same times.

A good alternative though is to get multiple small inverters for your set up. So have a switch for the tv and xbox, on a 300 watt inverter.

Not universally true. In fact, some large inverters have "load sensing" and when in stand by mode, draw less power then many small inverters.

[stamar]

Iif what you are saying is correct then a battery powered microwave only could get the battery bank to 80 percent.

But that makes it even less useful than before and a stupider iidea. You have a microwave now that needs your battery bank to be at 80 percent or higher. Just keep it around for those sunny days..... worse idea than I previously thought. If that's even the case

[zero]

No one that posted in this thread is iinterested in a battery powered microwave.

When you see a 2000 watt inverter you assume.

Even so battery powered microwave in a tohome is a top 20 question for new owners including me.

.

What the term hare brained means is someone who makes a quick decision based on little information. So a battery powered microwave is sort of a hare brained idea.

I came close to buying a small microwave for my rv when it was sitting in the driveway for a few months before I had experience with its electrical system

I think I reviewed everyones experience here and decided it didn't work as a regular thing...and if it doesn't work as a regular thing it doesn't have a good spot in a full tim rvers rig.

Stamar, you are not qualified to fairly review hardly any technical comments made by others here. You have repeatedly demonstrated your lack of knowledge. Not knowing something is no crime but pretending the opposite is childish. I've lived with solar for years - off grid and with grid tie. I own over a dozen inverters and can comment from actual experience and not like you seem to do (reading specs on components you don't own or understand).

[zero]

Iif what you are saying is correct then a battery powered microwave only could get the battery bank to 80 percent.

But that makes it even less useful than before and a stupider iidea. You have a microwave now that needs your battery bank to be at 80 percent or higher. Just keep it around for those sunny days..... worse idea than I previously thought. If that's even the case

Stamar, you are an idiot when it comes to electronics and it seems fruitless to attempt to explain anything remotely technical to you. But on the odd chance anyone else is interested . . . Just about any consumer-level deep cycle battery is intended for no more of a discharge the 50%. Using a high amp draw appliance via an inverter will result in the inverter shutting down before the batteries are dangerously discharged. You regard that as a problem? First you spout off about using a microwave will instantly ruin batteries, and now you complain it won't? Some RV uses like the microwave option of heating food without turning on the gas stove and yanking out pots and pans. Even many small conversion vans have microwaves. I have one in my truck camper and in my Blazer Chalet RV. My wife really likes the option of heating food quickly inside the camper on a real hot day and not make the place inside even warmer from the gas stove.

And about starting the truck's engine for a few minutes while microwaving something? You see that as a problem? Sure beat pulling out the pots and pans and/or having a huge battery bank.

[stamar]

I think of your posts as useless to rvers for the most part.

No personal experience obviously. I don't read them for the most part everyime I have and all the facts I've ever checked have been totally wrong.

if you had something worthwhile to communicate you would have said it. In this 6 battery microwave set up it would shut off at 50 percent like we all assume or 80/ not that id take your word as fact I'm just trying to help you make a point....

I'm not interested in your cabin solar experience I think there's a thread for that do you have toyota motorhome rv set up to share?

In the camper van set up that's personal to you. I know my friend tore it out. I don't have experience with it I'm sure though id use it at first then eventually almost never use it or use it for guests. Everyones rig is different, my rig is for me. If you take a lot of guests camping I can see it as more useful. Its again me repeating this, dependent on you. For the majority I believe it would get canned fast.

[zero]

I think of your posts as useless to rvers for the most part.

No personal experience obviously. I don't read them for the most part everyime I have and all the facts I've ever checked have been totally wrong.

Stamar - I bet you cannot post even one "fact" I've posted that can be shown to be factually incorrect. You act like a ignorant moron. Hey . . maybe it is not an act? I don't like name calling but in your case - I make an exception since you've attempted to make this personal. Seems you cannot stand something when somebody knows something and you do not.

By the way - if you like I can post (repost) many statements you have posted that are easily proven to be nonsense. A "microwave ruining a battery bank", a "port injected diesel", "many small inverters using less power then one large inverters", etc., &c.

[zero]

great thanks. i'm considering keeping the genny..

and not too sure about six batteries maybe 4 or 5 tops.

just to have a big battery bank in case there's a few days cloudy days

about the roof a/c guess i could look into getting one of those walmart ones.

or some small 12v fans and see how that works.

and about the house ac guess i could get a small heater and run it off the batteries if i have too..

not sure if its possible though i have to look into it

Marco - I suggest you read up from some websites of companies that specialize in off-grid living. It's the same regardless if in an RV or a cabin. Backwoodssolar is one of the best information sources around for this subject. They use, sell and install the stuff and offer a lot of free technical information.

http://www.backwoodssolar.com/

New England solar is another great place owned and run by electric engineers that live off grid.

http://www.newenglandsolar.com/

[stamar]

I suppose that a microwave that works only at 80 percent charge is even less useful than one that works to 50 percent charge yes...

But it is unable to ruin deep cycles. I was mistaken if that is the case jd thanks.

But the microwave is even more useless for a long time rver. Entertaining for a weekend getaway.... there we have it anything I skipped? I'm not working on a battery powered microwave but I can at least bring it up for the next person who wants one.

For the right person its not a bad idea. My project is a full time rv project so I give my opinion, fully researched too more than anyone else would, on things suitable for full time rving. If its not working for that I don't research it. I started on my full time toyhomr in august so the amount of research I've done is comprehensive and it shows.

[waiter]

I've don't have any information to offer on this topic, as it was related to full time off grid, and seemed to be solar oriented. But I do enjoy reading the posts as I find them educational, and often entertaining. :-)

My "off grid" experience is part time, i.e. one night stands while traveling, occasional (rare) 2-5 days at a remote campsite. (Love the Silver Strand - San Diego stays)

FYI - My microwave (700 watt) will run 10-15 minutes on a fully charged standard ole house battery before I start getting a low voltage alarm. If my house battery runs low, I run the truck engine at a high idle for 15 minutes to re-charge, maybe once or twice a day.

I have a fairly standard off the shelf Toyhouse with energy efficiency mods, LED lights, 12 volt LCD TV, 1500 watt inverter (for the microwave, morning coffee, and recharging the laptop and cell phones)

In my usage, I would bet a small 40 -100 watt solar would probably take care of my needs.

I have a 12 volt "master" switch to turn off the house 12 volt supply to the TV, radio, antenna amplifier, and my blue tooth GPS receiver. These devices will draw a small amount of current, even when turned off, so the Master switch completely removes 12 volts from these devices.

ALSO - The Inverter draws a small amount of current when turned off (maybe 1/4 amp), so if I'm really trying to stretch my amps, I'll physically disconnect the inverter (I need to install one of those high current disconnect switches to make this job a little easier)

If your looking at TVs, I would recommend to look carefully for one that will operate straight off 12 volts, rather than go 110 thru an inverter. Some TVs will say that they operate of 12 volts or 110. However, if it doesn't, look at photos of the TV, look specifically at the power plug, Many TVs use a small power supply that plugs into the wall, then have a power cable that plugs into the TV. If you look at this, sometimes you'll see that the power supply plug is 12-14 volts. if so, you are in luck as you can usually power this device direct from 12 volts rather than use the power supply.

NOTE - the small 13 inch TV I got from Walmart is exactly like this, it had a small 110 volt power supply that supplied 12 volts, and I could see the "12 VDC" on the TV power jack. One nice thing, it doesn't loose its channel memory when I kill the 12 volts with the master switch

Gud Luck.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[stamar]

There is someone that posts here with a fully electric toyhome.

Now I say fully electriic looslely as they use a generator and burn gas.

I can't remember who it is. But they have their act together and when they are full timing they driive a lot.

Theyy cook with their microwave. Fully contradict what I say but they also sleep in campsites with hookups you see and recharge the thing.

Iin fact they post here a lot but could care less about this part of the forum... they burn gas.

Don't have much solar either and they have real agm batteries. Going by my memory which is. Excellent but not perfect.

Their set up is not for me and were both full timing part of the year. It takes some real personal questions to figure out what's best for me and what's for you.

That's where good adviice can go bad. Waiter gives his weekend trip advice and a microwave works on one deep cycle....

I tell you even two deep cycles and 300 watts solar can't do it

Jd rambles about expensive stuff for cabins or whatever who knows.

You've got to really get into how much driving how much sun etc.

I think I put the links to the power improvements that are most universal in my signature.

[zero]

NOTE - the small 13 inch TV I got from Walmart is exactly like this, it had a small 110 volt power supply that supplied 12 volts, and I could see the "12 VDC" on the TV power jack. One nice thing, it doesn't loose its channel memory when I kill the 12 volts with the master switch

Gud Luck.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

I've got two Sceptre LCD TVs that also work that way. 19" and a 32". Both run 12 volt DC and come with an AC power supply to use on 120 VAC. For the few years, Sceptre has had the best deals I've seen on prices. I've gotten from Walmart (on-line) and New Egg.com

[zero]

Jd rambles about expensive stuff for cabins or whatever who knows.

Stamar - how about you stop behaving like a little child with emotional "ad hominem" attacks and just stick to subject matter relevant to RVs? You are the last person here qualified to insult of others when it comes to "correctitude." If you actually come up with something useful to say - it will stand on its own merit and you won't need to bash others.

I've mentioned Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverters (very cheap). I've mentioned using Walmart type 27 and 29 batteries (one of the cheapest on the market). I've mentioned using AIMs mod-wave inverters - also cheap. I've mentioned using Sun or Evergreen solar panels - also cheap. I've mentioned using cheap Walmart AC refrigerators, etc. Not exactly "expensive stuff" as you claim. And yes, I've also mentioned some higher end equipment. That because I've actually owned and used the stuff, unlike you that only reads about it and guesses.

[Totem]

I am big fan of owner based wisdom. If you own one you know....if you own a vehicle you know it, and learn how to drive it and it should be not so impressive that you can get 47 MPG out of a tdi, or an AC fridge keep beer cold or a toyhome with Solar or a semi automatic armed guard to prevent kids from being killed. All you members are cool people, with some quirks. I know I am "gun nut" and a fan of the constitution. We are all on the same team, we all like toyota motorhomes and are Americans... well all but one of us.. heheheh love ya Derek.

[zero]

I am big fan of owner based wisdom. If you own one you know....if you own a vehicle you know it, and learn how to drive it and it should be not so impressive that you can get 47 MPG out of a tdi, or an AC fridge keep beer cold or a toyhome with Solar or a semi automatic armed guard to prevent kids from being killed. All you members are cool people, with some quirks. I know I am "gun nut" and a fan of the constitution. We are all on the same team, we all like toyota motorhomes and are Americans... well all but one of us.. heheheh love ya Derek.

Be glad you don't live in New York. I think our governor is trying to out-do Obama and wacky gun laws. Just passed a new set of laws last night (I think). I have not read it all yet but as I understand it - my Ruger mini-14 Ranch Rifles are now "assault weapons." Also no guns with magazines allowed that hold more then 7 rounds. Note they are saying "magazines" and not clips. My little .22 lever action Marlin and Henry rifles hold more then 20 rounds each . I'm wondering now if they are deemed illegal and will need magazine plugs? Most sling shots are already banned in NY unless registered as firearms. I'm seriously thinking of finally moving to Michigan full-time.

[stamar]

I think marcos goals and usage are most closely related to mine.

I'm trying to run a laptop and cellular internet for 24 hours a day.

I have led lights and 116 watts in ppanels installed.

I estimate that ill need 500 watts in solar and three deep cycles and a 100 amp alternator.

That's not that different than your guesstimate.
I don't really have a feel for what six batteries improves from this logic, once you leave the grid if you're a loser you're going to lose. But I haven't writtej out an equation or asked a real full time rver yet.

but ignoring that and getting back to th orignal question... if I had an onan generator I wouldnt sell it for 600 watts in solar panels and 6 deep cycles.

thats going from the penthouse to the outhouse. Solar panels is optimism. A generator is certainty.

And in the event Im not qualified to answer those questions for you youre really screwed marcos because Im the only regular here fulltiming with a toyhome and solar panels.

If any of these other regulars were I bet they would have spoken up in the last 4 months.

I wish there was a source for these questions here I ended up lookin elsewhere and came back to share.

[Marco1503]

THANKS EVERYBODY GREAT TIPS AND IDEAS.

[zero]

Im the only regular here fulltiming with a toyhome and solar panels.

If any of these other regulars were I bet they would have spoken up in the last 4 months.

I wish there was a source for these questions here I ended up lookin elsewhere and came back to share.

How do you suppose living full-time off-grid in a motorhome differs from living full-time off-grid in a cabin or small home? Not much difference is the answer and there are plenty of people around with years of experience to share who have done it and are still doing it. The main variables are recent changes in technology and/or price drops that have made some things more affordable. A battery bank, inverter, solar panels, etc. work the same regardless if hooked to a stationary RV, house trailer, boat, cabin, etc.

[Derek up North]

Does living for a few weeks with enough solar power to light a few LEDs and a tablet qualify as 'Full Time'? Sounds like 'vacation' so far.

[stamar]

ive been full timing for 3 months but the solar panel is new. the leds have been here for months.

I did take like 3 weeks off from officially full time rving recently Derek I dont know what that does to my status.

I have 250 watts in solar panels ordered though, whenever those are live that puts me as the most solar paneled regular here.

which is not saying too much. But 500 watts will be a lot for a full time rver Im not actually building on anyones experience here. I mean Im building on their experience but not their direct experience

my personal experience with my solar panel I havent even started yet I wouldnt bother writing it down yet. so youre right a few weeks experience gave me no insight yet

I started out with just running the furnace and it didnnt keep pace. But then again there was no sun.

I can give rave rave rave reviews to all the led lights I used. I literally leave my lights on 24/7 at times at least one and it never runs the battery down reliably.

Pre and post solar panel those lights are miraculous. All data points to way better than advertised.

[zero]

IIm the only regular here fulltiming with a toyhome and solar panels.

If any of these other regulars were I bet they would have spoken up in the last 4 months.

My wife, me, kid and dog have been living 3-4 months every year since 2005 in a parked RV. I don't see how it has much to do with using an RV AS an RV that moves around but done it just the same. I've got a heck of a lot more experience doing it then you.

Here is it when we began. We cleared some woods we own in the NY Adirondacks and parked a 21 foot RV Jayco camper-trailer there. Then started building a two story cabin around it.

This photo from 2005 . .

I slowly built the cabin around the camper as we lived in it. All power tools ran off of a battery bank and solar panels. Started out with a pair of type 27 Walmart batteries and one Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverter along with a propane refrigerator.

As things progressed, I installed more solar panels, two inverters, and six 6-volt deep cycle batteries. Ran our air compressor for a nail framing gun, ran power saws, etc. One inverter is the cheap Harbor Freight 2000 watt full time (4000 watt surge) and a Xantrex 2400 watt inverter with “auto-load-sensing.” Hard-wired the solar and installed an Outback MX80 solar controller.

Got rid of the propane refrigerator and put in a new Sundanzer 12 volt chest refrigerator (and love it).

Got the exterior of the cabin done in 2010 and have to move the camper out which was not easy (things were tight).

Moved the camper 75 feet away next to our hand-pump water well.

[stamar]

im not interested in a whole lot from that project.

Except for one thing. what is the angle of the prop holding the panels?

the first two panels i use they are flat and obviously panels on top of a moving rv arent able to be at an angle

but i want to put one panel on something that ether is at an angle, but still below the vent level, or on something that cranks.

I do not believe theres anyone here with panels at a good angle on their roof.

Ive got the greatest idea of putting a panel on top of my escape hatch whichh is just a large vent near the front of the cabover.. that way i can crank it up to go at an angle. I think its such a great idea it might be worth selling a kit. Dont have it ready yet.

[stamar]

Actually the main difference between a solar powered toyhome and a cabin is everthing.

None of the equipment is the same for something that needs to be driven daily on the freeway and uses a cars 12 volt syste, etc.

I am not interested in solar other than for my. Toyhome honestly and if I were it would be simple to find where to go and read about it all.

None of the panels will be the same. Wiring. Few iif any will be at an angle. If I. Remember right you don't even have solar on your camper truck you have a panel you pull out. But you have some data on a bigger alternator that is related. That is an rv.

Different batteries controllers output of solar power.

Most importantly this is the toyota motorhome forum. Nobody wants to read about or see pictures of a set up that's not in a toyota motorhome.

I don't at least. Some ideas I used come from just solar rv and boat users but I don't want to come here and see pictures of boats. I don't want to hear experiences with boats. The only thing I care about is the best thing to buy for a toyota motorhome, and the vast majority feel the same way, if it doesn't have a direct link to something to buy for a toyhome its a waste of space.

[Derek up North]

... the vast majority feel the same way, ...

I don't recall reading a Poll on this. Direct link, please.

[zero]

Actually the main difference between a solar powered toyhome and a cabin is everthing.

None of the equipment is the same for something that needs to be driven daily on the freeway and uses a cars 12 volt syste, etc.

Most importantly this is the toyota motorhome forum. Nobody wants to read about or see pictures of a set up that's not in a toyota motorhome.

Last I checked you are not the leader of the word police here. If not interested - simply ignore. Why comment on things you know next to nothing about? I was fooling with RVs and solar power many years before you were born. You are a "tyro", i.e. a novice at best. I try not to make things personal but with you it is hard to ignore. Your statements are so rude and moronic and childish - it's hard to reply in a kind way.

For anyone who cares - a 12 volt rated solar panel works the same on a mobile RV, cabin, parked RV, etc. Same with a solar controller. Same with an inverter, etc.

I don't claim to know everything. But what I do know from specs and/or first-hand experience I post when it seems relevant. I have solar for two of my RVs, my farm runs on 100% solar, and I have a cabin on solar. Been doing it for many years. I've used (or installed for others) over two dozen types of controllers, inverters, etc. That gives me a bit of hands-on experience I am qualified to comment on.

[linda s]

Nice Cabin build.

Linda S

[zero]

Nice Cabin build.

Linda S

Thanks. It was an "unintended" project. We used to camp in that area and decided to buy some land to just store camping equipment. Building regs said I could build a 120 square foot building with no permit. So I got some poles in the ground when the inspector came around and told me the local law had changed and I was "now" in violation. So, I decided NOT to remove, and instead -if I had to get a permit anyway - build a real cabin we could live in. The property is 3 hours drive from our home and with no grid power - it was an on-going learning project trying to figure what the best ways were to make power to run tools, run an RV, etc. Living in the RV was the easy part compared to making enough power to run power saws and an air compressor often all day and every day I was there - just on solar. Also - about RVs. If the code-inspector sees an RV that has the appearance of being parked more then 60 days and not mobile - it gets classified as a permanent building. Gets taxed, must meet code, etc. Turns into a mess. We've had an RV on that land for years but had to put air in the tires, put license plates on it, etc. whenever the inspector was due to come around.

[waiter]

JD, HOPEFULLY you removed the trailer before you closed in the wall :-)

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Marco1503]

JD: I gotta say that is an awesome cabin you guys built, a job well done it looks like from the pictures, THUMBS UP!

i plan on buying property this year and im considering doing something like that.

how much would a lot like that cost somewhere in california, also in the woods.

[zero]

JD: I gotta say that is an awesome cabin you guys built, a job well done it looks like from the pictures, THUMBS UP!

i plan on buying property this year and im considering doing something like that.

how much would a lot like that cost somewhere in california, also in the woods.

My wife and I paid $56,000 for 8 acres in the NY Adirondacks that is attached to 1000s of a acres of state forest in the Adirondacks. That is the highest price we have ever paid for wooded property. Got it around 2004 and it's worth considerably more now. All wooded with white cedar, white pine, and balsam fir.

Where we live in central NY we have around 80 acres of mature hardwoods with pretty nice mountain views. The lowest priced parcels were $400 per acre and the highest were $1200 per acre. I just bought another 18 acre wood lot with mature hemlocks and red oaks and a nice trout stream and paid $7800 total for it. That was an unusually low price though.

We also own some rural lands in northern Michigan. We bought 20 acres of woods last summer in Presque Isle County for $24,000. It was logged 12 years ago and is all new growth.

[Marco1503]

Thats awesome my wife and I are looking to get something for around $10,000.

and do something very similar towich you did.

sounds like you know what your doing both rv and property.