Davidadro Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 This horrific accident was in Merced California, and was a head collision with a Dakota pick-up where the driver of the ToyHome was killed, and others seriously injured. Both were estimated as going only 55 MPH where the pick-up driver had wandered into the ToyHomes lane. Be careful out there, as our homes don’t take accidents too well. Such a tragic event…. http://www.mercedsun...on-highway.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnynshare Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 That's shocking. It's just like running into a brick wall going 55 except for the slight difference in weight between the Dakota and the mh. Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uthorns Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Wow a terrible tragedy. Wasn't anything the driver could do in this case but a reminder to me to drive my "Flo" carefully. It won't hold up to much of an impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Actually, more like running into a brick wall at 110mph (55mph x 2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I guess you don't watch Myth Busters??? Actually, more like running into a brick wall at 110mph (55mph x 2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I have seen a travel trailer in an accident and it also was made to shrapnel. It makes me think about how safe it would be to be in the back cause the whole structure disintigrates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I always thought that it was the 110 mph equivilent also. Mythbusters shows that exact cars have the result of 55 mph crash. Unfortunately. we are driving a lightly built truck that weighs 6000 pounds. We have a lot of moving energy and not much up front metal to absorb the energy in a wreck. It is like driving a stock 1/2 ton toyota pickup being pushed by a 3500 weight into a wall. No matter what the physics, in a wreck, we do not come out on the winning end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidadro Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 My best buddy was in a roll over with a Midas Motorhome, a lot bigger mind you. He was sleeping in the back sofa, and the lady driving fell asleep in Laramie Wyoming. He woke up and was in mid air, seeing the motorhome turning around him, He hit once on the roof, and then again on the floor, and he then said all he saw was open air as the home just disappeared. He walked away with only a 6 inch gash on his calf. Very lucky! The driver had a slight neck injury, and if my buddy had been sleeping in the cab over, we might be telling a different story. All that was left was a damaged cab and flat bed, the rest was in pieces about the countryside. Be careful out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidadro Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 I always thought that it was the 110 mph equivilent also. Mythbusters shows that exact cars have the result of 55 mph crash. Unfortunately. we are driving a lightly built truck that weighs 6000 pounds. We have a lot of moving energy and not much up front metal to absorb the energy in a wreck. It is like driving a stock 1/2 ton toyota pickup being pushed by a 3500 weight into a wall. No matter what the physics, in a wreck, we do not come out on the winning end. Yes, the speed would be 110 MPH equivalents, but the kinetic energy adds the total force of the impact. Joules I believe it is measures heat and energy converted into force by pounds per square feet or inches. For example, say one has a Yugo hitting a wall at 55 MPH, and one has a fully loaded 18 wheeler hitting the wall at 55. The weight and energy created by the 18 wheeler will cause far more destructive force or energy because of the mass and weight behind it. A more relatable example would be that solid objects fall at the same rate, so when one drops a marble vs. a bowling ball on their foot, the difference is quite obvious. Peace all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey4x4 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 So sorry to see that. Really unfortunate. Yep, these are tiny little guys with a lot of weight pushing them around. I would highly recommend looking into an aftermarket bull bar or extra strong bumper for extra protection. I had a heavy duty offroad bumper fabbed up for my Toy home for this exact reason, because I assumed the brakes weren't that great and these little rigs need something to protect you up front. I've attached a picture of the bumper on my rig. There is a company called Badland Bumpers that makes awesome bull bars and prerunner bars. I would highly recommend looking in to getting one for your rig, or at least something more than the flimsy stock front bumper. Timmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Nice looking bumper. Unfortunately, in a 55mph head on collision, I still think your bumper would be the only thing to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I was on that road a few weeks ago in a borrowed Sunrader. It really is a sobering reminder that, well, to be quite honest our toyhouses are pretty much death traps. They really, really really don't do well in accidents, but, then again, neither do many much larger RVs. Yet, we still climb into them and drive them all over the place, with our loved ones in them! Go figure. I suppose the alternative is to sit on the couch at home and be safe. And where's the fun in that? Just keep in mind that you are really not going to like being in a collision and do what you can to avoid one. I have considered buying an old school bus and converting it into an RV. There are a number of websites out there dedicated to those that do and one of the big things they tout is the fact that school buses are absolute tanks. They are built far stronger than any RV. As to the physics question being discussed here, 2 vehicles colliding head on is not the same as 1 vehicle hitting a wall at the combined speeds. If the vehicle weights are the same, it is like hitting the wall at 55 mph. If there is a huge weight disparity, it is more like hitting at the combined speeds, for the unlucky fellow in the light vehicle. It really is just high school physics and a simple matter of very rapid acceleration. And yes, in physics terms, it's all acceleration. Just in different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Nice looking bumper. Unfortunately, in a 55mph head on collision, I still think your bumper would be the only thing to survive. What Derek said. A stout bumper will help a good deal in fender benders. It will do more or less nothing, other than add a percent or two in the all important battle of inertias. It would do more if it was mounted on some very well designed shock absorbers and it stuck 2 feet out in front of the grill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidadro Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I agree, the force of hitting head on will cause the abrupt stopping of the solid cab and chassis, and allow the mounted home part to no doubt detach from its connection points, and along with its mass want to continue forward into a destructive ripping apart event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ok so here is the question...after being criticized for not bolting down my seats and putting the seat belts back in for the barrel chairs and having a big trip coming up I decided to bite my lip and bolt the chairs down again drilling into my perfect bowling alley tiger bamboo floor. The holes are small (3/8) and I figured I can always dowel or putty them later... but my question is this; is it maybe better to not be strapped in back there during an accident? i can't see anything left of the motor-home in this article and there is not enough detail in the survivors last known whereabouts in the cabin prior to impact. So, group, thoughts on this? would it be better to be thrown clear or have all that shrapnel pass you by while you are strapped in>? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 well it would almost always be better to be bolted than thrown However in this case the seatbelts are not going to keep anything with the cab theyre going to break off and lauch with everything else. So I agree with you seatbelts attached to a wood floor will not do anything positive in a crash. I believe they are more there for keeping you in during turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I dont know if there have ever been crash tests based on any rvs. however the C class of RV? All death traps. Its made of wood and aluminum? held together in a way to completely disintigrate in a 10 mph accident. All these fiberglass things are able to get around safety crashes for some reason, so they dont even care, at all Safest seeming ones? B class. Its a large van its within its weight capacity made of steel. Like the new sprinters or even older treks or chinooks. Making an rv from those shuttle buss type things is real strong too. Or from a short bus or school bus. Rv makers dont seem to have to follow the rules that people transporters do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ugh my beautiful floors... ruined., oh well at least they can keep a kid hostage if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 What ^^^^ said. C Class as well as many of the big boy A Class RVs will pretty much disintegrate at anything more than parking lot speeds. The higher end A Classes that are based on "greyhound" type buses would do better. School bus conversions are without a doubt the best. They have to meet very stringent standards. I once saw a picture posted on skoolie.net which was quite a testament to school bus structural integrity. It was an overhead shot from a plane of the aftermath of a train vs school bus altercation. The train a little scratched up. The frame/drivetrain of the bus was sitting off to the side maybe 50 ft or so. The rest of the bus was sitting maybe 100 ft away, not terribly dented up completely intact. It looked as though with a little bit of dent pulling, you could bolt it back down to the frame. Had it been an RV train encounter, the RV would have been nothing more than kindling. Sure as hell hope I never have a close encounter with a school bus while in my toyhouse. So, of all the toyhouses, which one do you suspect would be the least horrible in a wreck? The "stick and staple" vinyl/aluminum sided are IMO, the worst. I suspect a sunrader type would fair a little better as there are fewer pieces for it to break into and fiberglass is some fairly tough stuff. And the though of the top half of the sunrader clamshell getting shucked is a little troublesome if you are in it at the time. I think the steel/aluminum framed rigs might fair best. The bottom line is, drive defensively. Drive as if you are invisible is the strategy I use while on my motorcycle. realize that even if you pay attention, others out there won't. And not being at fault won't make you any less dead in the case of an accident. So, pay attention, pay attention, pay attention. There is a chance that the poor soul in that dolphin may have been able to avoid her collision if she had noticed the erratic behavior of the pickup. And don't forget to keep your life insurance paid up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Having been in a honda accord that went off a small cliff in PA in 1993 and rolled 25 times, I can attest to a car and seatbelt combo being a lifesaver. Our homes only have the "lap belt" though and as mentioned become deathtraps in a crunch. I second the sentiment that the belts do help in a hard brake situation of which I have recently had two of; one a deer and one a wise guy drunk/ID10T off of 94 in Chicago cut me off then slammed brakes. Sent me wife and kids flying a bit. hopefully that helps with that sort of thing. So let me ask you guys this then; my other reasoning for lag bolting again was possible encounters with law as we are crossing several states. I know in cars they must be belted but I have heard in RVs no such requirement. Is this true in all 50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 As a motorcyclist, I ride like everyone is trying to kill me. I carry that driving mentality with me no matter what I am driving. The best way to live through a wreck is to be somewhere else. I may be driving a little slower but I try to stay out of the way so that people don't do stupid things to get around me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 some states do require seatbelts in rv's. google it and you will find the list that requires it. i know california does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidadro Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I agree that the seatbelts in the back would be a must to keep one from being a projectile and for flying around during sudden stops. One must remember I believe that to insure the effectiveness of any restraint, it must be attached to the frame of the vehicle or unibody strong point. Otherwise, it will just rip out of the wood just like everything else does during a collision. So, if one is going to mount a seating area in the back where passengers sit during driving, I think maybe one could drill through the floor and mount bolts onto or through the frame if possible? Maybe attach a metal plate underneath the thick floor and then drill and bolt the seat through the wood onto the plate? I just don’t think that screwing the seat to the wood will maintain the strength needed to hold a body, but any precaution is truly a prudent one. As stated, most Class C style homes are a disaster if in an accident or roll over. Unless you have one built upon a full freightliner truck cab and frame, most makes and especially our Toys are not going to fare well in anything abrupt over 35 to 40 miles an hour. All we can really do is to insure we don’t drive too fast, and always keep alert, especially out in the middle of nowhere, as that is where we tend to daydream, and where that solo vehicle may be daydreaming themselves coming directly at us. Keep your loads even, as just a couple hundred pounds side to side can cause unstable lean, and pressure on tires. Don’t overload as it will lose stability if heavy in back, like a fulcrum, it will cause front tires to not have good contact with road. Never take a ramp over the posted safe speed and maybe less by 5 MPH if the speed is posted 30MPH and under, meaning it is a very sharp curve. Don't drive in unstable stormy and wind conditions, as we know, it doesn’t take much of a cross wind to blow us into other lanes easily. With our low seating position, sometimes it can be hard to see far down the road in heavy rains and fog. Check tires and fluids every stop, especially the brake fluid. Always add at least a couple car lengths to following distance, as no matter how new our brakes are, they are dangerously undersized for emergency braking situations. I can’t imagine having to go through something like these poor people did, or having to discover that one of our members here came to this kind of tragedy. Be well all, peace, and happy travels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 national rv attached 2 seatbelts to the actual chairs in my rv, which are bolted to the front bed shelf( they are over the gas and water fillers So in an accident they will hold you to the chair excellent the chair itself will actually shoot off. I want too answer the orignal question better though. Having a seatbelt can be helpfull in a low mph crash, and it would NOT be bad in a big collision. Dont take them out because you think it will be safer to launch out better in a collision. Its about the same. Seatbelts are good but dont get your hopes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Seatbelts undoubtedly help in a regular passenger car. I think they help in fairly minor accidents where they would likely keep you from flying forward into something hard. In a very serious acident such as this one, I really doubt they matter a bit. If they do go to the frame they will likely keep you from flying forward, but, the trouble with that is, everything around and behind you is flying forward, so this might not be a good thing. i am a stickler for seatbelt use in my cars, but, not in the RV, for a few reasons. Primarily, staying belted in the rear of the RV is a PITA. The advantage of a MH over a TT (travel trailer) is the freedom to move about while underway. In a car, you ain't going anywhere. May as well be belted in. Secondarily is the already mentioned opinion that in a bad accident, it probably don't matter much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidadro Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yeah, Im thinking that seatbelts in back of the home would be like those in an airplane, more as safety precaution. Except in the Motorhome, it would be for sudden stops or rough roads, unruly kids, etc. Like the plane crash, when the TOY gets hit or crashes into something, it wouldent make much difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yeah, Im thinking that seatbelts in back of the home would be like those in an airplane, more as safety precaution. Except in the Motorhome, it would be for sudden stops or rough roads, unruly kids, etc. Like the plane crash, when the TOY gets hit or crashes into something, it wouldent make much difference. The passengers in the motorhome survived. Only the driver died. She was a teacher from Soquel near Santa Cruz ,Ca Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 i would go with the seat belt i would not be on here now with out it i would be gone surived a four to five loop roolover at 55 son roled our 1977 toyota corona station wagon five of us walked away 17 stiches in the head for me lost an aunt in a head on. my hart goes out to those people all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 A head on is one of the worst i have been in three totals rear ended in my datsun b210 by a full size dump truck and backhoe on a trailer. . while stoped shoved 40 feet down the street into the back of a van also stoped. belt kept me from going through the windshield. 7 months before the rool over. three years after that dead stoped in trafic in my 1987 toyota 4wd xtra cab owend for a year and a half with a huge load of wood on back. a kid looking at who knows what drove a honda civic at 40 mph right into me tor that honda all too pices fell back ten feet after he hit that wood busted the kids face some. truck totaled but could drive it bed all tore up broke my driver seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidadro Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 The passengers in the motorhome survived. Only the driver died. She was a teacher from Soquel near Santa Cruz ,Ca Linda S I used to live around there, in Capitola. Did you know her name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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