Towing a Miata with a Toyhome

[stamar]

I just got a 92 miata, it weighs around 2000 pounds. Not the lightest car ever made but the lightest good car ever made. ( it actually is still heavier than the 1st gen rx7)

very popular as a dinghy vehicle. ( I still have a bmw too one has to be sold)

and I am preparing to be a full time rver

Now I now my toyota cannot tow my miata, other than perhaps up to 30 mph.

I assume what is lacking is largely the horsepower.

my motorhome has a r20, would a r22 upgrade help?

what all horsepower and torque would be needed to tow a miata with a dolphin 500 up to 50- mph

what other upgrades are necessary?

[Derek up North]

Installing a 22RE would give you about the same HP as your Miata (116). So it would be a toss-up as to which should be used as the toad.

[stamar]

ya the 20r at least has like 120 lb ft tq.

overall it is still more powerful. but not by much I agree and it gets significantly worse gas mileage.

Even the tiny little 1.6 in the miata has a decade or so of engine technology above a 20r so its getting there. it has dis, dohc mpfi two of the biggies.

Nothing quite like the 03 vetec civic I just sold though 1.7 that would actually out do a 22r in most every way.

Anyhow it doesnt matter the frame on the miata could not tow even 2000 lbs much less 6000. the miata would actually be a decent towing vehcile among vehicles its size, like compared to a del sol or a smart car or whatever.

the miata actually might be capable of towing a miata...... but not a motorhome.

[5Toyota]

THE 20R GETS MUCH BETTER MILAGE WHEN USED IN A CAR NOT A HEAVY MOTER HOME >MY 1977 toyota 20R CORONA WAGEN GOT 25 miles to a gallon and with the 5 speed would do 80 across the flat desert of southern WHYOMING WITH WIFE AND THREE KIDS AND LOADS OF STUFF. THEY WERE RATED 96 HP.

[stamar]

yes it definitely does.

But it wouldnt get the 32 that the 1.6 miata gets....

Turn that number around, and the 17 mpg my 20r motorhome gets is 22 with a more modern miata engine.

The 1.6 miata isnt a good fit, but the 1.8 liter, 130 hp one thats made in 95 would be.

its just older and its a 2.2, it uses more gas to reach 96 hp. 125 tq.

ok so heres tech that all brings about more power per displacement.

4 valves per cylinder first. DIS. EFI ( throttle body like the 22re is minor, mpfi is the real thing) Dual overhead cam, and then eventually variable intake, variable valve timing both together.

Finally direct injection for more modern cars. All of those little steps add up, and the modern day version of your little corona not only gets 40 mpg it has 115 hp.

a miata is right in the middle as far as the timeline but there were bigger steps in the 80s than in the recent decades. a modern car is truly from around 96 on so this 92 miata is just a step behind modern.

[Maineah]

Way too much weight for the MH you all so will need to stop it once you get it going. Toyota and the coach makers say no towing take that with a grain of salt regardless your in for a good bit of welding just to be able to tow a moped. I have a 4 liter 4 cam VVT 230 HP Tacoma 6spd and towing 3000# you know it's back there and it has no house on it's back.

[86rader]

What maineah said. Toyhouses stop about as well as they accelerate. Adding another ton won't help matters.

If you are going to fulltime in a Toyhouse and would like a toad, I suggest you consider a light dual purpose motorcycle such as a KLR 250/650 or DRZ400. One of these with a very light utility trailer will weigh under 500 lbs. Anymore weight than that will seriously tax the frame of the RV, even if the powertrain/brakes were up to it.

[stamar]

wellI believe I could get a light motorcycle or scooter into the house.

brakes are easy and cheap to upgrade for me I have done that before.

but if its never been done I will conceed sometihng about it is impossible.

[Maineah]

wellI believe I could get a light motorcycle or scooter into the house.

brakes are easy and cheap to upgrade for me I have done that before.

but if its never been done I will conceed sometihng about it is impossible.

The only thing that will help all ready over taxed breaks is twice the sweep area.

[Gulfstream Greg]

I just got a 92 miata, it weighs around 2000 pounds.

Now I now my toyota cannot tow my miata, other than perhaps up to 30 mph.

First: sorry to be so blunt.

Frame in rear is way too weak.

I assume what is lacking is largely the horsepower.

my motorhome has a r20, would a r22 upgrade help?

what all horsepower and torque would be needed to tow a miata with a dolphin 500 up to 50- mph

Even a v6 engine is too small. Drop a big block chevy in!

what other upgrades are necessary?

None

My guess is finances are at work here in restricting you to going in another direction. My suggestion (God no lightning bolts please) is to ditch the dolphin and look for a coach built on a 1999 to 2003 Ford E350 or E450 chassis with a 7.3 liter turbo diesel. It will tow the miata like it isn't there. MPG will be in the 10's with or without the miata. Maybe something with a slideout and a queen size bed. Bigger holding tanks.

[Derek up North]

I'm wondering if a Blue Ox Brake Buddy on a flat towed vehicle would eliminate the potential braking problem? Also, Toyota rated the SRW 1-Ton with a 8500lb CVWR, so they felt the brakes on the SRW was up to the task of stopping (safely) 8500lb. I'll assume that the DRW 1-Ton has brakes at least as good. Also, our motorhomes have the aerodynamic efficiency of an air brake to help at high speeds.

[90toydolphin]

interesting, referring to toyota motor home and high speed in same sentence, trying to get my head around it )

[Derek up North]

Well, I did forget to mention that you'll have to swap in a Lexus V8 to reach them!

[stamar]

Ya the vg v6 is not really very powerful either.

nobody came back with a figure but lets assumer 200 hp 200 tq. That would more than cover it my old dodge van had that.

You could feel when it was towing but it could handle towing a car. of course, it used an ohv design based on something made in 1973 and it got under 10. actually like the previous poster just said, it got 10 in town on the freeway towing or not it just got 10 mpg.

for toyotas thats I think a 3.4 or 3.8 v6 from the mid 90s on.

maybe upgrading the motorhome requires finding wrecked t100, for the engine transmission and the rear axle and the brakes.

that still does not change the frame. Im going to crawl under my motorhome and look at it before I comment because the frame is already an extension on top of the truck frame.

[stamar]

ya it cant be done economically intelligently. Really as dumb as this sounds, it would be easier to sell this motorhome as its value is inflated compared to what it is

take the 3k and get a t100, then find a wrecked or dead sunrader and put it on that. all for the budget of 0$ as opposed to... well at least a 1000 for a wrecked t100

and the labor involved of avtually cutting off a motorhome body and gluing it back on compared to changing engines and transmissions is like 10% of the time at most.

you would also get a frame that would have no problem covering it and big wheels that dont need duallies.

[Maineah]

T100 used the same engines as the smaller trucks the biggest was a 3.4@ 190HP in "95" the 3L and the 2.7L both were 150 HP. It was a 1/2 ton truck with a semi floating rear, tires won't gain you much load rating it still only has one axle bearing. I agree with Greg you need a bigger MH.

[stamar]

ya actually truck tires give you a much higher load rating. higher than the 2 passenger tires on the truck right now.

the t100 has the 3.8.

[Bunneys]

brakes are easy and cheap to upgrade for me I have done that before.

Remember you have 14" rims... Not much will fit in there...

I have a 89 with the V6. I'm setting it up to pull a small car, around 1700 LBS.

I'm thinking the only way to safely do it is to use a tow dolly with electric brakes.

I also added support to the rear frame. and am going to install the 3.4L 5VZ-FE engine to help pull the thing. Also contemplating switching the rear end gearing from 4.10 to 4.56...

A.

[stamar]

ya if it needs bigger discs you get bigger wheels? I dont understand that block personally. whatever braking upgrade it needs is simple and dirt cheap.

the brakes from 2005 tacomas directly fit on 74 toyota trucks...

without upgrading anything in the brake cylinder mind you.... just unhook them and hook them up...

i towed my geo metro which is 1700 lbs on all 4s, bungee up the steering wheel, with no extra brakes at all.

its jsut barely over 1500 lbs which is what they recomend having its own brakes.

a tow dolly with brakes would be easier definitely. but full timing a tow dolly would sort of ruin one of your vehicles in a way.

that is a big part of why they choose geos as dinghy vehicles, suzuki samarai being a big one. miata.

all below 2000 lbs which is often going to be fine without trailer brakes in flat terrain.

[Totem]

Get a fold-able 1000 Watt electric racing scooter as a toad. 65-75 lbs will go right on the back bumper and street legal in almost all states. 35 MPH, charge off alternator/inverter while driving. I have two. love em.

[Derek up North]

A quick Google search shows the '92 Miata @ 2214lb. That's 50% over the 1500lb limit you quote.

[stamar]

ya they go from 2000 to 2200

the miata as it was introduced was 2000 even that was one of its design goals

I actually ended up getting the 96 miata which is the 1.8 and closer to the 2200 mark.

an auto probably weighs more.

[stamar]

Get a fold-able 1000 Watt electric racing scooter as a toad. 65-75 lbs will go right on the back bumper and street legal in almost all states. 35 MPH, charge off alternator/inverter while driving. I have two. love em.

ill look into that. I think at that point a human powered bicylce works too.

[Maineah]

No 3.8L T100's 74 calipers were single piston floating calipers 05 4 piston fixed 05 rotor is twice as thick and larger diameter hope your good at making parts. D rated tires will carry more weight the semi floating rear will not it is only a 1/2 ton rear under the T100 no matter what tires you put on it. Toyota MH's went to a full floating 1 ton rear because the 1/2 ton axles broke not because they wanted to. Put the whole mess on a Tundra then you would have some thing capable of towing the Miata or just buy and old dual wheel Chevy V8 MH would be a lot cheaper and easier.

[stamar]

ya ive abandoned the whole idea.

lol. when I full time I might at first try with 2 vehicles, but I am sure Im going to have to go down to just the motorhome.

[Dank]

If you're the type who likes to 'set up camp' with awning, external power & sewer, etc., it's a pain to take off to the store or to sightsee when you don't have another vehicle. Like most others on here, I wrestled with the 'gas mileage versus towing ability' debate. I figured it wouldn't matter how much it would tow if gas prices keep me from using it! I ended up buying a little 150cc Chinese scooter, beefing up & extending the frame on my toyhome, built a heavy-duty 2" receiver, and bought a lightweight motorcycle carrier that plugs into the receiver. I have around $1300 in the whole setup, but so far it's been perfect for our needs. It might not be much good during a cold winter or a rainy day, but most of the time it fits the bill.

[Derek up North]

It might not be much good during a cold winter or a rainy day, ...

"There's no such thing as 'bad weather', just bad clothes."

[stamar]

I flirted with trading the yota for a 96 shuttle bus with 460 engine.

after a month with the miata I was definitely done with it anyway.

Overall even though it is reasonably light, like 2200 lbs, whereas a civic or corrola is normally 2500 lbs ( my older e30 bmw is 2600 lbs)

For its space its actually incredibly heavy. It has seats that are permanently at 90 degrees with no drop off for your legs. a tiny trunk. overall its not even a good toad its just good for driving on the track and along high way one. For a house living person, who has another car.

If its your transpo car, it sure doesnt bring a lot of groceries back to the rv. Youd be driving your rv to pick stuff up too and your miata is just for well..... drivining, thats all it does.

I owned it for a month, I sold it for 800$ profit with no investment. Its gone I got it out of my system I dont miss it. This whole idea is totally moot to me. but thanks for everyones thought.

I never want another NA miata they are just not practical. I actually went one a few 300 miles trips with a passenger, and I was reminded of a motorcycle really, witha sidecar. How is a miata any more useful? you dont need a leather suit but it really doesnt hold any more, its actually much slower only gets 30 mpg

now an nb miata miight do it, 99 and newer. Whenever those get affordable ill rethink my scene.

[ILIA]

There was as specific year geo made a metro that weighed 1600. Mine pulled one from Florida to Colorado with the previous owner on numerous occasions. As for wear and tear, I'm at 138,xxx miles and wouldn't hesitate to drive anywhere. My rig is solid and has plenty of power. Trust me, I just had a chance to drive someone elses. When properly maintained you can't bust these 22re engines.

Warining: I would retorque those headbolts and check valve clearances before attempting.

[ILIA]

He said mpg went down to 10 on the highway when hauling. I get 12-16 depending on the terrain not hauling.

[stamar]

i also towed a 94 geo metro, with a dodge van. it weighed 1700 lbs and didnt need any kind of trailer brakes.

it was a sketchy operation best only for straight lines.

there was a 1 or 2 year model of the metro that was lighter, it was made to go above 50 mpg. basically a metro, lightly modified with a more advanced ignition ( just a 3 cylinder dis)

It took premium though.

it is much less reliable than the regular metro and just barely lighter. I have a feeling theyre valuable now I dont know though.

I dont consider the metro a useful enough vehicle either but it does out do the miata.. I think, look at the pros, what do they have? Samarais, trackers etc. I think that is the smallest useful vehicle made.

what do commuters have? Civics, fits.