Moving my deep cycle battery

[nomad family]

So I purchased the harbor freight solar kit. Wasn't going to but it was accidentally put on clearance by a careless employee. I just bought my dolphin and the bathroom has been turned to a closet. I had an idea of moving my deep cycle battery from the box all the way in the back to the "closet" in the front. This will make my power setup more accessible and easier for location of the solar. Any objections or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

[linda s]

batteries vent toxic gasses. Must be sealed from inside and have vent to outside. I'm sure you could build something but can't just dump it in there

LS

So I purchased the harbor freight solar kit. Wasn't going to but it was accidentally put on clearance by a careless employee. I just bought my dolphin and the bathroom has been turned to a closet. I had an idea of moving my deep cycle battery from the box all the way in the back to the "closet" in the front. This will make my power setup more accessible and easier for location of the solar. Any objections or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

[waiter]

As Linda says, you really want to make sure your battery is vented to the outside. They produce Hydrogen gas, flammable and with defective batteries / cells or external ignition source, they will explode. My battery is in a small compartment that is vented to the outside.

I would think it would be easy to wire the solar panels, or anything else for that matter to the converter / 12 volt distribution panel.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[5Toyota]

I will second that i had a battery blow up under my hood years ago. hit the key there was a terrific explosion people herd it half a bloc away. seems there an internal short in the battery that caused a large build up of hyd rogen gas . rember this is the same gas used in the HINDINBURG ZEPPLON

[MAXXFabrication]

What about a sealed gel type battery? they dont vent any gas at all and are totally sealed- optima, and other types

[waiter]

I had one explode about 30 years ago, sounded like a gunshot. These are very rare occurrences, but they do happen.

A sealed battery reduces out-gassing, not sure what the price / capability of a sealed deep cycle is compared to a standard lead acid deep cycle.

I would ask, why are we moving the battery from its current location. Battery location shouldn't have any impact with the solar installation. The Solar panel is nothing more than a trickle charger thats probably supplying 2-3 amp charge rate. 2 - 3 amps can be handled by 16 - 18 guage wire with no problem.

If the existing battery compartment is like mine with an exterior vented door, I would leave it.

If I were adding additional batteries, i.e. need larger battery compartment, I would probably look at building a larger compartment at the existing location, simply because I already have an exterior vented door, and there is room to do it. depending on battery size, I might even make it so I can get to the batteries from inside the coach, i.e. the new battery box that I build would have a removable top cover, but the cover could close down and be reasonable sealed so any venting would occur through the exterior door, and not into the coach.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Maineah]

VRLA batteries can out gas at a high charge rate even AGM's They are safer but they still need to be vented to the outside of a living space and away from open flame (gas fridge, water heater) just to be on the safe side.

[Totem]

someones dolphin Battery exploded literally at the Midwest rally last year...can't remember whos though it was 8 AM in morning ish and not pleasant to wake up to. Also remember someones rear wheel had exploded en-route to the rally last year decimating her black tank.

two things I immediately took away from seeing those things:

1.) Tires will explode violently under lots of weight

2.) batteries will explode louder than an M1a discharge without earmuffs on.

[stamar]

my 79 doesnt seem to have an external battery.

where would an external battery be?

[Boots]

my 79 doesnt seem to have an external battery.

where would an external battery be?

Most, if not all RV's are designed to operate with two batteries. Each battery is designed to do a specific job and is used for different purposes. The obvious job of the engine battery is to provide instanteous power for starting the engine, maintaining a near constant voltage to all of the vehicles primary electical parts and accepts a fairly high amperage charge rate to the battery (quick recovery to fully charged state) all doing this automatically. This battery almost always is in the engine compartment, located quite close to the front of the engine and very near to the alternator.

The other battery, is often called the coach battery, is there to provide all other electrical devices such as the lights, controls, safety devices, power to run refrigeration, power to run the furnace, and other miscellaneous electrical appliances with 12 volt power. It almost always is located outside of the coach, usually in a well ventilated fiberglass box, slung off of the frame or attached to the coach by anchors. This battery is designed differently, it's primary role is a big resevior of power to be drawn steadily in small accumulative loads for longer periods of time. The vehicle battery, can provide hugh amount of current for shorter periods of time, say during starting) then a smaller amount from a few minutes to many hours; the coach battery will be called upon to provide a steady amount of current for a few moment to perhaps as much as eight to twelve hours.

Charging the coach battery, happens in usually in one of two ways, first the car can provide power to the coach battery through a special device called an isolator, and when the coach battery is fully charged the isolator can taper off or shut off the charge to the coach battery. Alternatively (or in concert with the car charge) an on board charger, specially designed to provide a charge to the coach battery, can keep the battery fully charged. Variations on this include, using a solar panel, a gas or propane generator that is wired to the on board charger.

If you don't have a coach battery, likely most , if not all of your 12 volt devices are powered by the car battery. The only danger of this is you may drain the battery down to a point where you cannot start the engine and if you are in an isolated located, this means you would be stuck for some time.

If you look for the coach battery, and find one, have it examined and tested, if doesn't meet the batterie's specification for performance, it means it is too old, worn out, has been poorly maintained, or not properly charged. Modern batteries, require more sophiscated battery chargers, so it may be wise to invest in one of these.

Brian

Edited May 12, 2012 by Boots

[5Toyota]

most of the Dolphions have a door on the outside on a battery compment. some of the 197879 dont know about dolphions of that year mounted both batterys under the hood the rv battery on the driver side

[5Toyota]

STAMAR YOU NEED TO LOOK AT THIS SITE NATIONAL RV ARCHIVES THE ORIGINAL ADDS SPECS 1979 dolphion model500

[stamar]

it doesnt seem to list a 2nd battery.

what are the things that run off the 2nd battery?

are there lights, and the roof air?

i cant seem to get those started.

Where would it be in the cabin? Its not in any of the many outer opening things.

National RV 1979 Dolphin 500.pdf

[stamar]

I found the coach battery.

was in a cabinet, not vented outside.

Theres currently no sign of electricity in the coach from anything, any light or anything so there must be a fuse.

I doubt the battery is alive but ill pull it out tommorow.

in that cabinet theres something labeled inverter. no sign of either a generator or a solar panel.

probably time to go to costco and get a deep cycle battery.

Edited May 13, 2012 by stamar

[90toydolphin]

not vented not good. at least for regular lead acid type. maybe something out there that doesn't let out fumes.

air conditioner needs 120 volts, not 12.

inverter converts 12 volt to 120 volt, but wouldn't create enough to run an air conditioner. the output of the inverter should be marked with out put.

sounds like someone added the battery with inverter, maybe to run a tv or something not needing much electricity. may not be tied to your altenator to recharge, maybe they just hooked up a charger on occasion for use. if it's tied to your altenator there should be pretty heavy wires coming to the batter from somewhere other than the inverter.

the lights could be 12 volt or 120 volt if someone added them.

[stamar]

what does run the roof air conditioner then?

I will have to analyze the wiring to this battery later.

in theory then isnt this inverter connected to the main battery? is that what runs the lights?

you can see around the cab theres a variety of lights none of them come on.

Edited May 19, 2012 by bajadulce
Please refrain from racial remarks on this forum

[5Toyota]

is there any sighn of a second battery mount under the hood . and if you read that old spec add i will read agin to be shure i thought it said the power converator and the second battery was a option seems hard to bleve that i willcheck but yours has the option 4 burner stove listed on page 2 the orginal transformer known as a converator supplys the lights water pump and charged the battery when pluged in to 120 volts do you have a long power cord on it somwhere IT says optional eqpt dual battery in the options and standred equp converator and 25 feet of cord ac runs when pluged inonly

[stamar]

no it says 2nd battery.

there is a 2nd battery and a inverter. in the same cabinet is some kind of air hose. might be vented out but its also vented in...

there is no sign of a 2nd battery mount under the hood.

Edited May 13, 2012 by stamar

[5Toyota]

well let us all know we will try to help i have owend 7 toyotas 2 motrhomes wish i was born with a computer in my hand like the young i am pre computor and pre color tv

[stamar]

so correct me if I am wrong, the roof air is only usable from ac...

Or a large bank of batteries? (how many) I was thinking of taking this to burning man someday, and I wanted roof ac. Do they onyl run on generators?

And if I wanted a generator, what kind should i get? wheres a good source for a used one?

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Stamar,

You'll only be able to run your roof top AC unit with a generator or with 120 volt shore power. There isn't enough room for enough batteries to run your AC unit through an inverter. You can run your AC with a generator but the size of the generator depends on the size of the AC unit on your roof. You can get a generator that's built in to the motorhome that will handle the load of AC but they're pretty noisy and not cheap. Honda makes what most people think is the best portable generator but, again, the size of the generator is dependent on the size of the AC unit you want to run. Many Toyhomes have a 13,500 btu AC unit on the roof and Honda's 2,000 watt, extra quiet generator won't reliably run an AC unit that big. Coleman makes a 7,5000btu roof top AC unit that the 2,000 watt Honda will run and your "engineering" term is not suited for this best used elsewhere, not on this forum.

John

Edited May 19, 2012 by bajadulce

[Ssdyle]

Dolphinte,thank you for setting him straight on the "engeerining" statement.nothing more offensive than a dumbass.Sonny

Edited May 19, 2012 by bajadulce
Agree! But please refrain from racial remarks/slurs on this forum

[5Toyota]

could not agree more use the good old term jury rigged

[stamar]

I got to look at an 82 dolphin with the cab battery up front.

Then I looked at mine, and i recognize the wires. Cut before the isolater. its possibler that is the battery in the back now?

I dont have a tray for a cab battery up front, im going to figure that out

get a deep cycle, and put it up front like its supposed to be

I need wires from the other battery now, and an isolater.

[stamar]

strangely enough.... during a 300 mile trip all my cab electric lights started working. Soon as i turn the key off they turn off again though.

I dont know what that means. They seem to only work when the car is running. It seems I have a battery isolater, and just one battery to me.

theres some sort of electric heater fan. and many lights.

[stamar]

hehe well I learned the answer to this with my 85 dolphin

the problem with the 79 was just that the deep cycle cell was dead.

these toy homes dont really have a battery isolater so to say, just a 1 way switch.

In my mind I always though that the ignition battery would run the lights until it got low, and then the isolater would kick in.

Not true at all what we call an isolator is just a switch that only allows charging voltage past it. soon as the car turns off, it doesnt let the voltage from the front reach the back.

In my 79 dolphin I bought a brand new battery and it confused me that the isolator wouldnt let it power the lights.

This is just what should be called a resistor switch. You can buy an actual isolator and put it in the same place greatly increasing battery capacity. but probably lowering the starting batteries lifespan.

[Derek up North]

I've no problem with the term 'isolator' because that's exactly what it does. It 'isolates' the coach 12v from the cab 12v except when the engine's running.

To me, a "resistor switch" is what controls the fan speed in the cab.

[stamar]

this isnt a real isolator though.

A real isolater allows the voltage from the starter battery through until it reaches a certain level, and then isolates it so it can still start the car.

common in a boat or a motorhome or a campervan.

a real isolater is at least 50$ more like 80$. what this is is a resistor switch that only lets the alternator current out. ( although at that point it lets the cabin battery back in. this is why youll notice perhaps 1 crank going slow and then BROOM the starter flys. As soon as the switch is open you have like 1500 cranking amps)

[Derek up North]

... common in a boat or a motorhome or a campervan.

Maybe in boats (not my domain other than sailing dinghies). Can't say I've ever noticed this setup in a MH, trailer. Would make sense in a Class B if you only had 1 battery on board.

[stamar]

http://www.amazon.co...attery isolator

Im just the opposite I had never seen this resistor switch type of thing til I saw old 79 and 85 motorhomes.

a real isolator has heat fins

my first dual battery rv though was an 89 dodge campervan. so it was just a step more modern than this toyota.

oh duh, warn. most common in trucks with winches.

Im not saying it doesnt do the job but to me using the same word for two different things confused me.

a real isolator lets you use all the power available up to enough for starting the car

.

Common also in heavy duty car stereo set ups.

[Maineah]

There are isolators that have diodes (no resistors) they are the ones with fins and there are isolators that have a relay ( solenoid) and then there are combiners. The first two are usually found on MH's combiners more so on modern boats all though they work great on MH's too. Combiners are smart relays that sense battery voltage in both batteries before reacting the other two just block voltage flow between the batteries in an off state.

[stamar]

we have a relay type which doesnt let the front engine power anything unless the alternator is on.

Not to say that doesnt work

the third type you describe is a battery controller that is like the 2nd one but seperating all the batteries in a bank ( meaning taking one out at a time) but it is also smart.