Issues removing axel shaft

[Bryanmay10]

I’m working on changing out the differential on my RV. It has the 1-ton full-float axel. I’ve been able to remove the nuts, washers, and cone washers, however, the axel shaft won’t budge when I try to pry it out. I’ve seen others remove the shafts without much work and I’m wondering if I’m missing something. It looks like there might be some sort of sealant or gasket around it. In the photos you can sort of see some of what looks and feels like caulking around the bolts and the back of the flange and what peeled off of the back of the flange. Any suggestions on how to get this removed would be helpful. Thanks. 

[extech]

there are 2 threaded holes in the axle flange. find bolts that fit, and screw them in to pull the axle from the hub.  might be 12x1.00

[Bryanmay10]

Okay, thanks. I was worried that would be the only solution. No one anywhere around me sells metric bolts, only standard for some reason, so just going to have to order some online. 

[fred heath]

Common thread pitch for most Toyota is 1.25.

Try a local hardware store or even places like autozone sell metric bolts and nuts.

 

 

[WME]

There is a thin paper gasket between the axle flange and the hub. Easy to make from gasket paper.

Ace Hardware has metric bolts as do most auto parts stores. 

I think the bolts to pull the axle are a LOT smaller than 12mm

[extech]

should be any bolt with 14mm head. check under the hood for some you can borrow. if they're too big -ones with 12 mm heads

[Bryanmay10]

So the bolt size is 8mm with a 1.25 pitch.  Ace did have them. The last time I was looking for something metric the person working there told me they had zero metric bolts and nuts. I didn’t get long enough bolts to get it full removed, but I got it out about an inch and it looked like there was gear oil that drained out. I’m pretty sure this means there is a bad seal of some sort in the axel then correct?

[extech]

yes, you can pull the axle out. look inside and you should see a seal with a id of the axle shaft.  may have been left out by the po

[fred heath]

33 minutes ago, Bryanmay10 said:

So the bolt size is 8mm with a 1.25 pitch.  Ace did have them. The last time I was looking for something metric the person working there told me they had zero metric bolts and nuts. I didn’t get long enough bolts to get it full removed, but I got it out about an inch and it looked like there was gear oil that drained out. I’m pretty sure this means there is a bad seal of some sort in the axel then correct?

Never worked on a Toyota ff axle. You should be able to grab the plate and pull straight out. Axle shafts are heavy, you really need to pull hard.

 

Some lubricant will spill out because most ff axles use “splash” method to lubricate the bearings. GM axles have no seals on the shafts themselves. The paper gasket WME mentioned is what keeps the oil from leaking out. 

[WME]

The "factory" setup uses 2 bearings and 2 seals. The bearings are handpacked. the same as frontwheel bearings. Who knows what a "I know more than the factory" PO has done

[Bryanmay10]

Yeah, I’m not sure. I managed to get the axels out and the differential installed. There weren’t any gaskets between the flange and the hub, but there was a sealant of some sort used. So just going to have to do a bit of research and figure out what I need to get to replace the seals. 

[IdahoDoug]

So from the factory there was a paper gasket where you found the sealant.  Best to use that if you can have the vehicle down long enough to get gaskets.  They're cheap. The oil leaking always happens when you pull the axle out as there's a seal holding the gear oil in the axle, and keeping that from contaminating the grease in the wheel bearings.  So, two separate areas of lubrication with different requirements.

 

On my Toyota LandCruiser's FF 1 ton rear axle there is a unique wheel bearing torque arrangement requiring a three pin tool - curious if that's what was on yours?  When you reinstall the axle, you should have a new axle seal that you tap into the axle tube.  This seals off the gear oil - keeping it in the differential/axle tube.  Then you clean and repack the wheel bearings, install them and re-install the axle shaft. When you install the axle shaft, lubricate it with a small amount of grease so it will slide through the new axle seal.  They're notoriously easy to displace spring, or damage the lip by sliding a dry axle against one spot for the length of the shaft.  You'll also want to support the axle shaft to avoid pressure on the seal, and some models if you use a flashlight and look in, you'll see a metal ring designed to rest the axle shaft on it to aid support of it and specifically keep weight and pressure of the new rubber seal.  Put grease on the seal's surface in the last few inches of insertion so the shaft/seal will be lubricated vs running dry until it gets splashed.  Takes only a short time to overheat those delicate seal lips if they're completely dry.

 

If in the future you are just opening one side, you can jack the affected end up just a few inches and it will keep diff oil from spilling out while you tend to things.  If you have further questions, let me know - done these many a time.

[linda s]

Here's your outer axle gasket

43422-35010 - Toyota Parts Deal

And here is the inner seal

90311-62001 - Toyota Parts Deal

Both reasonable and original Toyota parts

Linda S

[IdahoDoug]

I'm 100% certain that inner seal is incorrect for the seal that separates the diff's gear oil from the wheel bearing's grease.  And 50% certain it's also incorrect for the rear wheel bearing's inner seal. That looks correct for the front FF 1 ton axle. I'm out of town for a week, but know at least my Toyota 1 ton LandCruiser rear axle uses a rear wheel bearing inner seal with a funny extra lip on it.  I'll see if I can find a picture online.  Pretty rare Linda misses one, so I'd better back that up (!!), and I mean that truly kindly, Linda.

 

Also on my above instructions - another tip worth passing along I thought of while we were just out on a hike.  Those six nuts and the tapered washers that hold the axle flange in/on.  Turn the slits in the axle so they face straight out from the center (like spokes radiating from the hub).  This way when you later can't get one off, the slit is easy to get penetrating oil directly into the cone washer.  Even more importantly, those six nuts have a very low torque rating and are super easy to snap off.  It's something very low and MAY be published in "inch-lbs" so beware.  I also find it better to use a beam style torque wrench on them as you can watch the torque come up to the correct figure.  They are so skinny, there is no clear stopping point and a click style beam may let you keep tightening them again on subsequent passes until they snap.  The torque comes up weirdly slow and you'll feel like you're stripping them so long is the ramp up.  But once there on with the pointer on an old style beam torque wrench (the beam flexes and a long pointer indicates torque).  Use NO lubricant on them and it's wise to spray both the nut and the stud with brake cleaner before torquing them up.

 

I've got a few minutes and I'll see if I can find a pic of the rear inner wheel bearing on my axle.  I have some on my shelf at home.

[linda s]

I made no mistake. Look at the vehicles it fit. Do you see the WT? That means the dually axle and only the dually axle.

I'm also quite certain this is a job I have done and you have not. 

Linda S

[IdahoDoug]

Linda,

 

No worries, and you're accurate I have not done a WT dually axle yet, which it sounds like it is/may be a different setup from the full floater Cruiser setups I'm used to.  The description of the seal you linked says "front axle" - perhaps that's a typo on the website.    Here's the best picture I could get of the 1 ton rear full floater Toyota axle I've serviced many times.  The paper gaskets are what goes in place of the sealant the OP found under his.  The seals that keep the gear oil out of the wheel bearings are the smallest pair at the bottom of the picture and go in the tips of the axle tubes.  And the unusual rear wheel bearing inner seals are the large rubber lipped seals midway down the page.  If you zoom in on the seal on the right, you'll see the odd black rubber lip sticking up at the camera that's perhaps 1/16" tall.  These only go on the rears, and the front FF axle has a conventional looking inner wheel bearing seal like the one you linked.  

 

Pics from the OP would be great to see what seals he took out for comparison.

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by IdahoDoug

[linda s]

Front axle on a 4x4. Rear on a dually.  You need to realize I am searching on a Toyota website and input all necessary info on the vehicle before I do my search. If I get it wrong it's because Toyota screwed up.

Linda S

[IdahoDoug]

Yep, copy that. So Bryan - have pics around of what the seals you removed look like, perchance?  I will be a few months behind you in this work n it would br great to see!

[Bryanmay10]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:15 PM, IdahoDoug said:

Yep, copy that. So Bryan - have pics around of what the seals you removed look like, perchance?  I will be a few months behind you in this work n it would br great to see!

I don’t have any photos, but there weren’t any seals there to remove on mine. Looks like someone removed it before and just sealed up the whole thing. But otherwise, it’s a fairly straight forward job. My RV is a 1985 model, so the axel was added later after the recall, so no idea who installed it or when. 

[linda s]

You did put seals in when you put back together, right? Especially the axle shaft seal. That one is a must.

Linda S

[Bryanmay10]

No, I’m waiting on parts to finish. I have it back together at the moment and might drive a total of 5 miles before it’s fixed, but figure it needs to get sealed up. But I figure it’s been unsealed for at least the 20k miles I’ve drove on it so far, so should be okay for a week.