Leaking transmission fluid - power steering

[KonCon]

Hi everyone. 

New day new issue. Transmission fluid has been leaking ever since I have the rig. I just fill it up before I leave for a trip and that lasts throughout the trip. I just took a little bit of a closer look and I'm pretty sure it has to do with the power steering unit. I saw that there was an O ring in a position that does not make sense. See picture attached. Any idea where this o ring is coming from and what the leak could be? 

Thanks!!! 

[WME]

Well thats an interesting place for an O-ring. About the only place it could come from is where the shaft goes into the steering box. Although I would have thought that the shaft would have a seal instead of an O-ring.

If you can remove the steering box, people make a rebuild seal kit for them. A rebuilt box seems to be in the $300-700 range 

Edited August 24, 2023 by WME

[extech]

you say trans fluid leaking. are you filling at the auto trans dipstick tube? there is no connection between power steering and auto trans.  that o ring is left over from someone working on your rig. it didn't pop out of the gearbox

[KonCon]

Yes, filling it in the little dipstick container. I cleaned the area around the connection from the power steering to the steering wheel connection from all fluid, turned the car on, turned the wheel left to right all the way and back and checked and found the pink fluid on the bottom of that connection. 

[AtlantaCamper]

1 hour ago, WME said:

A rebuilt box seems to be in the $300-700 range

I had a similar issue with my steering box. I had a very difficult time getting the correct steering box when I ordered a 'remanufactured' one.  There are like two companies that do pretty much all the remans and both companies have the same messed up database with regards to my particular box in a '87.  If you go the route of buying a rebuilt box just make sure you are getting the right one..    I can't remember all the details but likley I cold dig up some info if necessary.  I believe it's the 1-ton vs not 1-ton that is the problem.  

 

Note that one 'rebuild' I ordered that turned out to be the wrong one had worse play than the one I wanted to replace.  When talking to a person at one of these companies he said that wasn't uncommon - they have pretty loose tolerances for the rebuild and some are just plain lousy but with good seals.  This is a reason to go with having your unit rebuilt instead of getting a reman from an auto parts place.  He also thought that my issue with not being able to get the right box for a 87 1-ton was because neither of these 2 reman companies have a rebuild protocol for that specific unit.  Just beware of this issue - it cost me a lot of time and trouble...

 

I decided to have my box rebuild instead of getting a remaned unit.  I paid $300 to Marty at powersteering.com, shipped it to him, and he got my steering box tightened up really well (plus the seals, etc).    (edit:  just noticed his price now is $339 plus shipping, but still a great deal IMHO)  These heavy rigs put a lot of stress on the steering gears and it's very noticeable having a newly rebuilt one.  Much less sway from heavy cross winds for example.  I'm very pleased with the work Marty did.

 

My suggestion would be to asses the wear of your box and if it has any significant play in it then consider the Marty rebuild.  Whatever you do, do NOT give anyone your box until you are 100% certain that you are all set.  

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by AtlantaCamper

[KonCon]

Now that the alternator is fixed, I want to look more into this one as I believe the leaking got worse. I'm trying to figure out what part of this job I can do and what not. I found this video and it really doesn't look that difficult. My current plan would be me removing the box, follow @AtlantaCamper advice and send it to powersteering.com to get it tightened up and once back, put it back in myself. I suspect the putting it back in to be more tricky than I'm currently thinking.

Trying to get all you're experts opinion if this is something you think is feasible or if you would recommend a different process. 

 

@extech I'm a little confused. Are you saying that it can't be the gearbox because there is no connection to the transmission fluid? The fluid is all around the box and I'm pretty sure it is leaking from the area below the Oring.

 

[extech]

i think you are seeing power steering fluid, not trans fluid. sometimes they are used interchangeably

[extech]

doable, but you also have the 2 fluid lines. going back together isn't much trouble. you will need to bleed the system afterwords, but no biggy

[KonCon]

27 minutes ago, extech said:

i think you are seeing power steering fluid, not trans fluid. sometimes they are used interchangeably

 

Could be. I'm pouring it into the little dipstick container and the liquid I'm filling in says ATF (and some other stuff). It's definitely for the power steering because when empty, the sound when steering is as painful as running a nail over a chalkboard.

 

21 minutes ago, extech said:

doable, but you also have the 2 fluid lines. going back together isn't much trouble. you will need to bleed the system afterwords, but no biggy

 

Puh, this makes it sound a little more complicated  - So there are two fluid lines going into the box or one in and one out? Is there a drain plug to empty it prior to taking the box out? When you say bleed the system, do you mean bleed the power steering system? And this is done after the rebuild box goes in?

 

Sorry for all the questions. With each answer, I have 5 questions. 🤔

[extech]

yes 2 lines  one high pressure (in) 1 low pressure (out).    no drain plug.   have something available to plug the low pressure hose to keep most fluid in the pump.  hose with clamp is low pressure

  yes bleed steering after rebuild

[KonCon]

OK that makes sense so far. Thank you so much. How do I bleed the system? 

[KonCon]

OK here's my plan for this weekend. 

 

1. Spray all screws and bolts with WD40 and hope one or two treatments is ebough

2. Disconnect the lines and plug the low pressure out line 

3. Remove gear box by following the steps in the video I posted earlier

4. Send box to powersteering.com as suggested @AtlantaCamper

 

Oh I also probably should make sure the tires are pointing straight forward. 

 

Let me know if I miss anything. 

 

Thanks y'all. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by KonCon

[fred heath]

47 minutes ago, KonCon said:

Oh I also probably should make sure the tires are pointing straight forward. 

Your pitman arm will have index marks on it. The steering shaft will also have an index mark across it. When you reinstall the pitman arm onto the steering box all the index marks MUST align. Failure to do this will result in an uneven lock to lock on the steering. Limiting your turning radius in one direction.

[KonCon]

Good to know. Thanks @fred heath

 

Couple of questions right off the start. 

 

To disconnect the lines, I assume I take out the screws that connect the lines to the box. Do I do this for the in and out line or do I just disconnect the hose for the outline (and the screw for the in line)? (picture 1)

 

There is this bracket fixing the in line on top of the box. I assume I remove it by losing the one screw holding the bracket to the box right? (picture 2)

 

Thanks everyone. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by KonCon

[fred heath]

I can’t comment on your setup as I’ve never worked on a Toyota power steering setup. My vehicle is older and has manual steering.

 

Based on your pictures, the “screws” I think you’ve referring to are actually “flare fittings “ and should be removed using a flare wrench or flare crows foot socket. This will prevent the fittings from getting rounded over by trying to use a standard open end wrench. Shoot them up good with rust buster and let them sit for a day.

 

The steering box itself is usually attached by nuts and bolts to the frame rail. Again, your setup might be slightly different. 
 

On my setup I couldn’t get a puller over the pitman arm until I loosened up the bolts holding the box in place.

 

Take your time. If you have a Haynes manual or Chiltons manual, that will be a big help.

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-metric-crowfoot-flare-nut-wrench-set-7-piece-68999.html

Edited September 9, 2023 by fred heath

[extech]

yes, remove the bolt holding the line bracket. as stated take the line nuts loose from the box. mine is also manual, and i forgot about the hose clamps and line nuts

[KonCon]

Alright making some progress. First screw is out, pitman arm is loose and all other nuts/bolts are at least loose. The line nuts are really tight so need to use more wd40 and get those flare crows foot sockets later that @fred heathrecommended. Overall good progress so far.

 

I suspect once I have those line nuts out, the toughest part will be separating the box from the steering shaft. In the video, the guy is using a crow bar but doesn't show how he does it. 

Any recommendations for that? 

 

As always, thank you all. You guys are incredible!!!! 

 

Oh one more thing. Do you recommend keeping this thing holding the hose on the fitting or is it ok to use a more modern, Standard clamp with a screw like I see on all the other hoses? Reason I ask is that it looked like there was also some leaking happening on this hose. 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by KonCon

[fred heath]

7 minutes ago, KonCon said:

Alright making some progress. First screw is out, pitman arm is loose and all other nuts/bolts are at least loose. The line nuts are really tight so need to use more wd40 and get those flare crows foot sockets later that @fred heathrecommended. Overall good progress so far.

 

I suspect once I have those line nuts out, the toughest part will be separating the box from the steering shaft. In the video, the guy is using a crow bar but doesn't show how he does it. 

Any recommendations for that? 

 

As always, thank you all. You guys are incredible!!!! 

 

Oh one more thing. Do you recommend keeping this thing holding the hose on the fitting or is it ok to use a more modern, Standard clamp with a screw like I see on all the other hoses? Reason I ask is that it looked like there was also some leaking happening on this hose. 

 

They also make flare wrenches. A wrench might give you more leverage than the crows foot. If you got the available space to manipulate a wrench, that’s the way to go.

[extech]

also a sudden rap as opposed to just pushing or pulling on the flair nut (line) wrench

[extech]

that hose needs replacing, and yes you can use the other type of clamp.

   the crow bar was to pry the ragjoint from the box.    where the o ring is.   my steering box has a o ring in the same place

[extech]

just realized you have taken the hoses off the tubes, so you can use a box end wrench to loosen the flair nuts. 6 point would be best

[KonCon]

Only for the out line right? For the in line I need an open end because it's a metal line that I can't take off. 

[extech]

correct

[KonCon]

Yeah so these are currently not coming off. I'll keep spraying them with wd40 and hope that they will come lose at some point. Worst case I will have to take loosen the pipe at the power steering pump and get it out this way. 

[WME]

Not an open wrench, but a flair nut wrench

[fred heath]

12 hours ago, KonCon said:

Yeah so these are currently not coming off. I'll keep spraying them with wd40 and hope that they will come lose at some point. Worst case I will have to take loosen the pipe at the power steering pump and get it out this way. 

If you have a small bernzomatic torch you can try heating up the fitting. The expansion many times will help with the removal of frozen threads. You must be careful not to melt any of your rubber hoses.

 

I’ve seen people use a bernzomatic grill lighter to get into tight spaces. I’m not talking about the ones that look like a candle. I’m talking about the ones that look like a mini torch.

 

You can buy them at places like Walmart. Here’s an example from Amazon.

 

Butane Lighter Torch Long Lighter Jet Flame Windproof Lighter with Visual Fuel Window for Fireplace Kitchen Grill BBQ Camping, Black (No Butane Included) https://a.co/d/iLDZFBo

Edited September 10, 2023 by fred heath

[KonCon]

Thanks @fred heath. I used to have one like this laying around. I'll go on a scavenger hunt. It has to be somewhere. 

[fred heath]

Leave the flame on as long as you can.  You want the metal to almost glow. Then immediately use your wrench.

Best method is to loosen….tighten…..loosen…tighten, back and forth until you feel the fitting start to move. Then you should be able to just unscrew it.  Good luck.

[KonCon]

Little worried about the fluid igniting. Is that an issue? 

[KonCon]

Just heated it up and no issue. One question I have of there is a key size between a 16 and 17 metic? The 17 one just has too much play so it "jumps" when putting a lot of force on it 

[fred heath]

Trans fluid has a high flash point. Technically, it could get hot enough to burn. I’ve never had it happen to me.

wipe the area down really well. You’re directing the heat onto a specific area.

keep an extinguisher handy just in case. If you’re uncomfortable using heat, let the WD 40 soak for a few days.

[fred heath]

1 minute ago, KonCon said:

Just heated it up and no issue. One question I have of there is a key size between a 16 and 17 metic? The 17 one just has too much play so it "jumps" when putting a lot of force on it 

Are you using a flare wrench? A regular open end wrench will round the fitting over. 6 pt is what you want.

Worst case, try a small set of vice grips and see if you can loosen it that way.

[fred heath]

7 minutes ago, KonCon said:

Just heated it up and no issue. One question I have of there is a key size between a 16 and 17 metic? The 17 one just has too much play so it "jumps" when putting a lot of force on it 

You could try a 5/8” SAE wrench. It sounds like the fitting has been rounded over. Vice grips might be needed.

[KonCon]

Yes, I bought a set of flare wrench yesterday. Maybe the craftsman Label is just cheap junk. I'll try the 5/8 and if that doesn't work I'll go with thw vice grips 

[fred heath]

Try flipping the wrench over. Sometimes you can get a better grab with the handle pointed down.