1988dolphin Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Coming into Sacramento I lost the alternator/water pump belt. I pulled over but not quick enough. After cooling off I replaced the belt and the engine starts and runs but with a miss and constant goosing to keep the It from stalling out. There is no water in the oil, no smoky exhaust, but the cooling system is over pressureized. I have not put a cylinder pressure gauge on it yet but I am sure that I will find a low reading on at least one cylinder which is causing the over pressure of the cooling system. Most shops are hesitant to hestiant to provide a quote. Most just want to swap in a new/rebuilt long block because of concerns over cylinder wall scoring or a cracked block. My original thought was to purchase a head, gasket kits and double row timing belt kit from 22RE Performance. I figured with some research and somewith paid assistance I could handle this job. With the concerns expressed about the condition of the block does it make more sense to put in a long block? I can pull the head off and do a visual inspection but would a visual inspection of cylinder wall tell me enough? Any assistance would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The 22re is a ridiculously easy engine to build. When you get it out of the truck clean it up and find a reputable race/ machine shop in your area and have them check it over for cracks or damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALLYRURAL Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I had my engine overheat a year ago on 95 in mass. Minus twenty on December 21 3 am in the morning. I had been fighting weird swings in temperature since I have owned the rig. Installed many new radiators/ defective changed everything that can be changed. New head from ebay (220 bucks what a bargain). I have been fighting the temp swing for six years. Anyway I overheated my engine beyond anything I would expect it to survive. It was blowing coolant out of the exhaust. Pour and coolant in it flows out of the exhaust. I was planning on installing a new engine so I did not mind blowing it up and maybe finishing it off. I had it towed to a friends yard and started looking for a new engine. A buddy challenged me to pull the head and see what went wrong. Always up for a challenge I pulled the head and threw a straight edge on it. Then took it to my friends shop and laid it on the surface plate. It was as close to flat as they come. So I took a look a the cylinders and they looked fine. So I called an Oriellys in Salem Mass and fortunately the guy who answered the phone was a Toyota Guru. He asked for my VIN number and for 90 bucks had everything I needed to put the head back on. A real parts guy can get you anything you need with your VIN So I went looking for why it overheated , Turns out the thermostat had stopped functioning . I had six thermostats that have been in the engine. Five out of six were dead when for the first time I put them in a pan of water on the stove. The last thermostat was from Toyota. All these thermostats worked fine when I installed them and I did not believe they were faulty when I replaced them.Just replaced them as I was in there and part of the process. After putting them in a pan of water on a stove and messing around with temperatures I was astounded to find that 5 out of 6 were non working. My conclusion is that some ToyHome owners (such as Myself) have maxed out our rigs so far that the tiny spring in the thermostat cannot stand the cycling that a 4 banger does when we travel. My solution was to drill three 1/8 holes in the thermostat. That did the trick. It takes alot of miles to get up to temperature but once up to temp It stays there and does not need to cylce .... 3 thousand miles into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The thermostats can be install wrong they are offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I feel like the chances of having that many faulty thermostats are pretty slim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 18 hours ago, 1988dolphin said: Coming into Sacramento I lost the alternator/water pump belt. I pulled over but not quick enough. After cooling off I replaced the belt and the engine starts and runs but with a miss and constant goosing to keep the It from stalling out. There is no water in the oil, no smoky exhaust, but the cooling system is over pressureized. I have not put a cylinder pressure gauge on it yet but I am sure that I will find a low reading on at least one cylinder which is causing the over pressure of the cooling system. Most shops are hesitant to hestiant to provide a quote. Most just want to swap in a new/rebuilt long block because of concerns over cylinder wall scoring or a cracked block. My original thought was to purchase a head, gasket kits and double row timing belt kit from 22RE Performance. I figured with some research and somewith paid assistance I could handle this job. With the concerns expressed about the condition of the block does it make more sense to put in a long block? I can pull the head off and do a visual inspection but would a visual inspection of cylinder wall tell me enough? Any assistance would be appreciated. Depends on how long you ran the engine after it overheated. It sounds to me like a blown head gasket. First thing I’d do is compression check on all cylinders. A Haynes or Chiltons manual would be a big help. A great time saver with the 20R and 22R blocks is you can leave the intake and exhaust manifolds attached to the head. Lift as a unit, replace the gasket, then lower the head back down. Don’t forget you have bolt directly below the cam sprocket which is often hard to see as it’s usually covered with oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, fred heath said: Depends on how long you ran the engine after it overheated. It sounds to me like a blown head gasket. First thing I’d do is compression check on all cylinders. A Haynes or Chiltons manual would be a big help. A great time saver with the 20R and 22R blocks is you can leave the intake and exhaust manifolds attached to the head. Lift as a unit, replace the gasket, then lower the head back down. Don’t forget you have bolt directly below the cam sprocket which is often hard to see as it’s usually covered with oil. I'd def have a machine shop check the head for warping. There's possible warping you won't be able to see with the naked eye or laying on a flat surface as he previously mentioned he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 All we ever used was a machinists straight edge on a diagonal and feeler gauges. Here is a thought to ponder machining a head only makes the surface flat it does nothing for the twist in the head think what that does to the cam bearing surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Maineah said: All we ever used was a machinists straight edge on a diagonal and feeler gauges. Here is a thought to ponder machining a head only makes the surface flat it does nothing for the twist in the head think what that does to the cam bearing surfaces. I don't wanna ponder that! Or should I say my wallet doesn't want to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 Took cylinder compression. Tested each cylinder 2x using two different gauges because the readings looked so bad . Cylinder #1 measured 0,0,0,0, cylinder #2 measured 0,0,0,0, cylinder #3 measured 90, 110, 90, 95, cylinder #4 measured 110, 120, 115, 100. The part that I do not understand is how this engine still starts and runs with a little goosing of the gas pedal. Will start removing the head in the AM. Will take some time first timer on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, 1988dolphin said: Took cylinder compression. Tested each cylinder 2x using two different gauges because the readings looked so bad . Cylinder #1 measured 0,0,0,0, cylinder #2 measured 0,0,0,0, cylinder #3 measured 90, 110, 90, 95, cylinder #4 measured 110, 120, 115, 100. The part that I do not understand is how this engine still starts and runs with a little goosing of the gas pedal. Will start removing the head in the AM. Will take some time first timer on this. Have a 1 1/2 to 2 ton engine hoist. Remove the hood (usually better with 2 people. Drain engine oil and coolant, remove header down pipe, fuel lines, label and remove any electrical connectors attached to the head. A truck manual is a must have to do proper sequencing with head bolt removal and replacement. Good quality torque wrench and take your time. I changed my head gasket in my driveway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1988_FSM_TOYOTA_TRUCK_Service_Manual.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Yeah engines can do strange things when you don't think it is possible. Here is a hint for the first timer there is a bolt under the distributor you have to remove the distributor to get the bolt out and it will be hidden by oil. Many years ago I pulled the head on a 6 cylinder Ford because it had no compression on one cylinder well it did not have a piston or connecting rod in that cylinder eather. The gal bought it used and had been driving it for awhile seems it had a bad bearing that beat the crank to death they put a bolt in the crank to stop the oil from leaking out of where the rod had been and left the piston and rod out and put the head back on. Edited January 11, 2019 by Maineah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 If the head checks OK then just do a new gasket. MAYBE a new timing chain. If the head needs work, look at a new head. For $300 or so you can get a complete headset, head, gaskets, timing chain, bolts and a water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurennn Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Not to highjack this thread, but I just had essentially the same thing happen to my ‘86 Mini Cruiser. Coolant leak lead cold air to get into where the thermostat was, thus the thermostat was not relaying that the engine was overheating. Also had the same issue with no power in one cylinder. Turns out the timing chain was 180* off! Aside from that, my gaskets blew, head warped, radiator lost. It’s in the shop getting all of its guts straightened out now. Im honestly not capable of doing my own repairs and wanting to take this thing on the road in about a month. The mechanic I’m working with thinks it will be rock solid when everything is replaced (especially considering some gaskets were original to the vehicle). my question to those experienced: is it worth the risk? Or is my inexperience more likely to stear me in the direction of financial ruin? I think it’d be a shame to get the engine in the best shape it’s been in since it was first on the road then not use it, but I am trying to be realistic too. any tips of other things to look for while weighing my decision? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 The 20r is about as bulletproof of an engine there is, the 22r/re is almost as good. Neither tolerates overheating and the 22r has the single row timing chain. A new head, timing chain, water pump, radiator and odds n ends. You would be back to almost bulletproof. IMHO use only a Toyota thermostat and Toyota red antifreeze. The rest of the parts use high quality aftermarket Toyota MH make trips all over the USA for MONTHS on the end. So if your mechanic is good and says the rig is ready for a real trip, go for it. Do a good check out each day before you start the engine,,, engine oil, coolant and tires. If this is Greek to you have the mech show you how. Getting the radiator cap back on is VERY important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Maineah said: Yeah engines can do strange things when you don't think it is possible. Here is a hint for the first timer there is a bolt under the distributor you have to remove the distributor to get the bolt out and it will be hidden by oil. Many years ago I pulled the head on a 6 cylinder Ford because it had no compression on one cylinder well it did not have a piston or connecting rod in that cylinder eather. The gal bought it used and had been driving it for awhile seems it had a bad bearing that beat the crank to death they put a bolt in the crank to stop the oil from leaking out of where the rod had been and left the piston and rod out and put the head back on. Actually Tim, the bolt is under the camshaft sprocket and is threaded into the timing chain cover. At least on the 20R. It will be hidden by motor oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Seabee Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Do yourself a favor and buy some Toyota FIPG, both the red and the black. The red is used for making transmission pan gaskets, the black is for engine sealing. the black FIPG is the best RTV known to man, and you will need it when you seal up the front cover, especially where it attaches to the oil pan. if the oil pan gasket breaks when you remove the front cover, get another gasket and cut it to fit the front end of the pan, then ensure it seals with FIPG. on the front cover, you will replace the thin gaskets. Glue those to the cover with copper kote or gaskacinch. use FIPG in the corners where the cover meets the head and the oil pan and block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 hours ago, fred heath said: Actually Tim, the bolt is under the camshaft sprocket and is threaded into the timing chain cover. At least on the 20R. It will be hidden by motor oil. Yes it is under the distributor drive gear that is bolted to the sprocket for the camshaft. It's far easier to remove the distributor to get it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 Moving slow but that’s ok. The manual helps greatly. I have to look up images of each component on the internet as I go. But I am learning at lot. The PB Blaster helps. Managed to round one of the exhaust manifold nuts. Persuaded it with a sharp drill bit and cold chisel and ball peen hammer. That was the only issue so far. Labeled everything and took lots of photos. I will find out how good my labeling is when I reassemble. Tomorrow the head will be off and to the shop for a inspection. Crossing my fingers that the head is still good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I don't know about now but many years ago I am 66 30 or so . the felpro after market headgaskets would only last 2 or 3 years an old Toyota mecinac warned me of that when I removed my at that time 20r head shure enough blown out on 1 and 4 put a new Toyota head gasket never another misstep, drove her 15 years many long trips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Seabee Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 6 hours ago, 5Toyota said: I don't know about now but many years ago I am 66 30 or so . the felpro after market headgaskets would only last 2 or 3 years an old Toyota mecinac warned me of that when I removed my at that time 20r head shure enough blown out on 1 and 4 put a new Toyota head gasket never another misstep, drove her 15 years many long trips. I will second this. I worked at Toyota for many years, and saw how aftermarket engine parts were nowhere near as long lasting as the Toyota parts. You may pay a little more up front, but less later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Quality stuff here...https://209yota1.com/t/22r-22re Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Ready for the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Check it your self, got a steel straight edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Seabee Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 5 hours ago, 1988dolphin said: Ready for the shop. clean the mating surface with a razor blade before you check with straight edge. no power tools/scotchbrite discs or sanding discs. get all new exhaust nuts from Toyota when you go back together with it. If you end up doing the timing chain, check the guide rails real good too. if they are grooved or worn at all, replace them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Is the head gasket trashed or can you get a good picture of that? From the looks of the head it had a leak between 1 and 2. The 22RE's were hard on timing chains if you have 100K or more on the engine it probably needs a chain kit they would get loose enough to beat a hole in the timing case behind the water pump and leak antifreeze into the sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Sorry the head gasket is trashed. I was measuring no compression between cylinders 1and 2. I am installing a timing chain kit and during the tear down when removing the crankshaft bolt and pulley the lower timing chain gear turned about 30 degrees and broke 8 teeth. I managed to fish out 7 still 1 is missing. I am sure that it is sitting in the bottom of the oil pan. I am assuming the screen on the oil pump will keep it out of the pump. How concerned sound I be about this? The chains guide do show wear so the chain was already stretching at 74 K miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Pour solvent/kerosene into the front of the pan and see if you can flush it out the drain hole. OR a big magnet and drag it around the pan and head for the drain hole, see what you catch. Without knowing what shape your screen is in its a gamble to leave it in the pan. Here's something that may be useful trying to find the tooth...https://www.walmart.com/ip/As-Seen-On-Tv-Lizard-Cam/800735601 Its a $40 borescope Edited January 14, 2019 by WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Seabee Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Are you working on a 4X4? if not, I think you can just unbolt the cross brace and drop the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) That is exactly what I did. After I unbolted and looked it over I realized dropping it was good enough. I will make another attempt to get that tooth out. It may have shattered, but a good wash with a solvent sounds wise. The magnet too. Thanks. Edited January 14, 2019 by 1988dolphin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1988dolphin Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Head at the shop and reading up on reassembly. The factory service manual states that I should assemble the head, exhaust manifold and intake manifold as a single unit them throw out my back lifting it in place and dropping in the two alignment pins on the block. Is it ok to bolt it back in one part at a time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 if you have a helper .one person on each side can lower it down as a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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