22R - enhance or replace?

[Dank]

Hey Folks,

I have an 84 Huntsman with a 22r with 76K miles. I've got a pretty good intermittent engine miss at the moment, as well as exaust leaks in the muffler (and I think the manifold or gasket as well). I'm not sure if the miss is fuel or electrical, but the plugs, wires, and distributor are almost new. The carb floods the engine quite often, so I'm thinking it may be fouling a plug, causing the miss (only at idle). I'm also burning some oil, which I'm hoping is just valve seals or guides.

So to cut to the chase... I'm going to beef up and extend the frame to mount a 150cc scooter on the back... and pull a light jonboat. With the extra weight I'll be adding / towing, I'm thirsting for more power. I was leaning toward trying to find a 2.7 3RZ to swap, but looking at the cost of a decent donor (or rebuilding a donor), I started thinking that it may be better to just do some mods to my 2.4. I'm thinking about swapping to a rebuilt 20R head, Weber 38 carb, and header with larger exhaust. From what I've read, those changes lead to significant power increases. They also address the current problems that I'm having with my carb, exhaust, and valves.

Anyone here done those mods? Do you think I'm trying to push the little 2.4 too much, or am I on the right track?

Thanks,

Dan

[Maineah]

2.7 is a great engine but it all so needs lot of wires and a ECM. 22R engine is also a great engine all though a good bit less power you maybe on the right track with the mods a lot simpler.

[linda s]

I have read a ton of sites talking about the 20r head on the 22r engine. Longer stroke supposed to mean more power. Search as I have I have never found anyone who talked about the results. I would think if it were true someone would be out there raving about the power and performance but I have found nothing. Let me know if you find any positive talk about the end result if you find it

LS

Hey Folks,

I have an 84 Huntsman with a 22r with 76K miles. I've got a pretty good intermittent engine miss at the moment, as well as exaust leaks in the muffler (and I think the manifold or gasket as well). I'm not sure if the miss is fuel or electrical, but the plugs, wires, and distributor are almost new. The carb floods the engine quite often, so I'm thinking it may be fouling a plug, causing the miss (only at idle). I'm also burning some oil, which I'm hoping is just valve seals or guides.

So to cut to the chase... I'm going to beef up and extend the frame to mount a 150cc scooter on the back... and pull a light jonboat. With the extra weight I'll be adding / towing, I'm thirsting for more power. I was leaning toward trying to find a 2.7 3RZ to swap, but looking at the cost of a decent donor (or rebuilding a donor), I started thinking that it may be better to just do some mods to my 2.4. I'm thinking about swapping to a rebuilt 20R head, Weber 38 carb, and header with larger exhaust. From what I've read, those changes lead to significant power increases. They also address the current problems that I'm having with my carb, exhaust, and valves.

Anyone here done those mods? Do you think I'm trying to push the little 2.4 too much, or am I on the right track?

Thanks,

Dan

[Derek up North]

Without researching the 20R/22R 'hybrid' (much), I'll assume that the 20R head has smaller combustion chamber volumes. With the larger swept volume of the 22R, you'd end up with a higher compression ratio, which normally gives more power. But might also require a higher octane fuel to control predetonation (pinging).

[WME]

The 20r head breaths much better than the 22r head, this helps at higher rpm.

Its an easy bolt on the early short block 22r, not so easy on the later tall block 22r.

On a carbed 22r you can get to 125/130 hp and still have a driveable engine. Much more than that you have to start changing trannie and rear axle gears to make up for lost low end torque.

wme

[Dank]

The 20r head breaths much better than the 22r head, this helps at higher rpm.

Its an easy bolt on the early short block 22r, not so easy on the later tall block 22r.

On a carbed 22r you can get to 125/130 hp and still have a driveable engine. Much more than that you have to start changing trannie and rear axle gears to make up for lost low end torque.

wme

Thanks to each of you for the replies. Linda, I'll post back when I complete my mods. WME and Derek are on the money. The stroke on the 20R was a bit shorter (200cc), so the top of the cylinder (in the head) was a bit lower. By chaning heads, the compression ratio is greater since there is less space with the same stroke. The intake manifold on the 20R also was a better design with more flow from the carb.

WME, I've heard a warning or two about a torque decrease with this setup, but I haven't seen anything but positive reviews from actual users (mostly 4wd crawlers, who rely on torque more than HP). Most folks who do this mod also put in an RV cam, which likely more than offsets any torque loss from the compression ratio.

I'll let y'all know my results afterwards. Any other experiences or concerns are welcome.

Thanks,

Dan

[Davidadro]

I purchased a 22R longblock for my 1983 Dolphin that has a 4 speed manual. I got it from Oregon Engine Rebuilders, and is their "SUPER STOCK" version that comes equipped with hypereutectic pistons and wrist-pins, over-sized IN&EX swirl-polished, chrome tipped valves, torque RV Crane cam shaft with 425/IN and 440/EX lift. It has a lifetime warranty, and even with shipping, it was quite reasonable. They offer long blocks for pre and post 1983 models.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item2eb88f0040

I also put on a new rebuilt carb, new erg and smog pump, plug wires, etc. I just took a vacation to Kentucky, and was able to pull a rented u-haul motorcycle trailer carrying my Harley XL1200 at 60 to 65 MPH comfortably, power and torque was there, and even going up hills it rarely fell below 55 MPH. There is also out there at speedshop websites offering a bolt on supercharger unit with your choice of carb that will boost power tremendously, but your talking a pricey upgrade. If I can haul my Harley & your gonna haul a scooter, the replacement I have done would pull it fine one would think. Peace!

Edited May 30, 2012 by Davidadro

[stamar]

You know you dont even know!!!!

I have a 79 dolphin 500. that means i have the heaviest toyhome, with a 20r. my dream is to have a 22r.

My top speed is 60 mph. im under 100 hp floored.

I would love a 3z swap. i went ahead and looked for 20r superchargers because surely someone along the line decided this 20r with 6k pounds is ridiculous.

but couldnt find one. What Id need to do is upgrade to 22r. I suppose I already have a 20 r head. Then there are many superchargers.

I cannot imagine someone who bought a 1400 plus core engine considering a supercharger expensive.....

If I put ina 22r, I would find one for next to nothing from a shot car.

no offense intended.

if money is no object you can get a jdm turbo engine

[Davidadro]

Hummmm, I guess it’s all what one wants to put into it. If one wants to throw an old engine in from a shot car and call it upgraded then so be it. I plan to keep mine for years to come, and use it heavily and not have to worry about my motor due to some worn out clunker’s past. I have a heavy Dolphin as well, and with my choice, I am confident as I run down the road, and I go plenty fast enough pulling at 60-65 and 70 when not. I get good mileage, and knowing that as long as I own my motor, it has a lifetime warranty no matter how many miles I put on it. One can’t get that piece of mind pulling an engine by dumpster diving into an old car trying to save some bucks. 1400 bucks for a near complete motor with oversize polished valves, high lift RV torque cam and hypereutectic pistons and wrist-pins, as well as putting new carb and rebuilt components to complete looked like the better choice for years of use and the long haul. Well, to me it did anyway, no offense. Good luck all, and PEACE!

Edited May 30, 2012 by Davidadro

[linda s]

Hummmm, I guess it’s all what one wants to put into it. If one wants to throw an old engine in from a shot car and call it upgraded then so be it. I plan to keep mine for years to come, and use it heavily and not have to worry about my motor due to some worn out clunker’s past. I have a heavy Dolphin as well, and with my choice, I am confident as I run down the road, and I go plenty fast enough pulling at 60-65 and 70 when not. I get good mileage, and knowing that as long as I own my motor, it has a lifetime warranty no matter how many miles I put on it. One can’t get that piece of mind pulling an engine by dumpster diving into an old car trying to save some bucks. 1400 bucks for a near complete motor with oversize polished valves, high lift RV torque cam and hypereutectic pistons and wrist-pins, as well as putting new carb and rebuilt components to complete looked like the better choice for years of use and the long haul. Well, to me it did anyway, no offense. Good luck all, and PEACE!

Yes I think 1400 is a crazy good price for all you got out of it.

[Davidadro]

Thanks Linda S for the comment

LCE Performance has specialty in Toyota enhancement you might want to check it out Dank for engines, boost bolt on components, modules, headers, cold air intakes, and just about anything you might need for boosting any variety of power capabilities

http://www.lceperformance.com/

If one plans to upgrade to Turbo or Super Charging, here are some things to consider ( As per Toyota Performance )

Turbo Charger Limitations

The stock compression ratio on an 85-95 22R/RE engine is 9.4:1 and is really too high to truly take advantage of a high boost blower or turbo kit. You can run a turbo or supercharger on a stock motor with a factory EFI unit, but you must limit the boost to 4-6 lbs. The factory computer (22RE/2RZ/3RZ) just does not have the capacity to retard the timing and add enough fuel to properly manage a high boost supercharger or turbocharger.

A great investment, which will provide you with the right set-up, is with a Pro Fuel Injection Kit. This system will give you the ability to add more fuel (with larger injectors) and retard the timing during the high boost operation. It will also allow, with lower compression, to run up to 15 lbs. of boost with 2 BARS of M.A.P.

If you truly want to take advantage of a supercharger or turbocharger, you need to lower the compression ratio to somewhere between 8.0:1 to 8.4:1. That can be achieved with a forged piston replacement, which will allow you to run higher boost. It is highly recommended to consider the lower compression and the Pro fuel Injection Kit when adding a turbocharger or supercharger kit to your 22R/22RE/2RZ/3RZ.

Here are a couple options for low boost supercharging an R22, one from Pully Boys, and another from LCE Performance

http://www.pulleyboys.com/store/product.php?productid=67

http://www.lceperformance.com/22R-Supercharger-Kit-Low-Boost-w-Weber-Inlet-p/1073000.htm

Turbo upgrades run about the same..

http://toyotaperformance.com/prod03.htm

and usually work best with chip module upgrades which are pretty reasonable

If ya want top performance and longevity, don’t forget the intercooler,

http://www.fullybolted.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=22951&cvsfa=3446&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3232393531

All and all, I guess it comes down to each individual, and what they want to spend on performance $500? $1000? $5000? We all have our own ideas of what we want to do, and what we are willing to do to get that desired end result. I guess that’s why we have these forums, so we can all enjoy the works in progress, and having others to bounce ideas of, without ridicule. Have a great time doing what your doin, and PEACE all!

[stamar]

actually 1400$ cash will cover anything that goes wrong with a motorhome much better than a rebuilt motor....

If you have both that is cool.

ya used engines even go for 600 but the cool thing about toyota trucks is people wreck them all the time and they go for almost nothing if youre patient.

Just a dollars and cents thing. I got my whole motorhome for 300$.

There really isnt a 20r supercharger anyway so thats a very expensive upgrade for me indeed lol.

when I bought it the po said there was lol and it is pretty believable. Needs something for top end to get to 65...

Not fast, not a hill climber....just something to get to legal freeway speeds so the semis dont pass me all day.

[stamar]

I know this is a terrible idea just a daydream

but at the moment I have an 03 civic ex with body damage. It runs excellent. obviouisly the engine is so tiny it fits both ways in a toyota engine bay its a 1.7 aluminum block engine.

would need some kind of adapter to the toyota transmission ( this is not a good idea, but I bet its been done seeing as a civic and a toyota truck are the most common vehicles on the road)

it has 127 hp 115 tq, basically much stronger than a 20r and extremely reliable. More power grunt etc, and it gets 35 mpg in a civic...

would love to somehow tranport it. I cant even put an estimate as to what kind of gas mileage it would get...

Its hard to describe but vtec really hits at freeway speeds. And the civic gets its best gas mileage at 75 too.... I think thats more a function of gearing nevermind that.

I would say.... mid 20s.

[Davidadro]

actually 1400$ cash will cover anything that goes wrong with a motorhome much better than a rebuilt motor....

If you have both that is cool.

ya used engines even go for 600 but the cool thing about toyota trucks is people wreck them all the time and they go for almost nothing if youre patient.

Just a dollars and cents thing. I got my whole motorhome for 300$.

There really isnt a 20r supercharger anyway so thats a very expensive upgrade for me indeed lol.

when I bought it the po said there was lol and it is pretty believable. Needs something for top end to get to 65...

Not fast, not a hill climber....just something to get to legal freeway speeds so the semis dont pass me all day.

My Dolphin needed a new motor as my had got frozen from sitting in winters, and blew out the freeze plugs, water jackets, and head gasket. I didn’t wanna throw a beater in something I was restoring and redoing, as I plan to use the Dolphin till the day I die, and hopefully that will be at least another 20 years. I also wanted good performance without throwing a lot of fancy schmancy bolt ons and fuel sucking products, so I went the route I did for a lot of reasons. Mostly the ones that made sense for my needs, like for what I knew I could afford, what the Dolphin was worth to me, and the uses I was planning for the long haul. Now, with the motor I chose, I can hit freeway speeds even in Arizona, that’s 75 and easily tow all day at 65, but try to keep it at 60 for safety sake. Of course it's all terrain decided, but even towing up hills it usually stays at 55, unless I'm facing a mountain. You Know!

I'm not sure how compatible the Honda would be trying to bolt it to a Toyota drive train, as I believe you would have to go from the original front drive set up to a rear wheel drive set up. Who knows, I have seen people put Isuzu diesel motors in 65 Ford pick-ups, and Ford V8 Windsor motors in a Toyota Hilux. Dreams are there for the making, and if you can find the way, how cool it would be! It’s like I stated, different choices for those that make them, and everything in between. From the thousands of dollars to the freebies, it’s all good! Have a good one Stamar, and Peace!

[stamar]

ya you would obviously have to turn it 90 degrees create new motor mounts from the sides of the engine bay... or fabricate something on top of the 20 r ones.

and then if an adapter didnt exist it would be expensive to fabricate one ( however I strongly believe one exists.)

the reason its not a stupid idea is there exists in machinists hands the mold to a civic k series output shaft and bolts, and a toyota 4 speed input shaft all day long. weld them together and there it is. basically almost the most common adapter possible.

Its not a good idea at all a 3jz or something is much smarter.

the reason is like custom everything would have to be made for a fwd motor facing sideways. things like the hoses the exhaust, fan etc. That stuff is not off the shelf because theres like 5 in the world lol. any rwd motor all that stuff faces the right way....

So even if you start with a motor for free....the cost of a custom exhaust and motormounts alone are stupid expensive. But its been done a million times.

Theres a lot of steps that can be hard or difficult in a motor swap. So on 1-10 just being fwd makes it a 5 however everything else is a 0 its incredibly light motor has no space problems and is easily attached to the transmission so you dont need a custom driveline.

its just the motors I happen to have on my driveway lol.

And the difference in the size of the motors is astounding. a 20r is huge. jinormous. so you see the transmission is literally bigger than the honda engine and transmission together. I gave some thought to making a custom 2nd driveline to the honda transmission... removing the toyota transmission and creating a carrier bearing and a 2nd driveline. But for some reason I think the civic transmission would snap in two Im not sure why....

That also creats the need for custom pedals shifter hydrolic clutch lines. Its basically stupid lol.

it would require serious mechanical engineering and a machine shop. Im sure noone has done that.

I love my motorhome. Im not really feeling the 1979 tech motor though, whereas on the civic its totally opposite, the engine is amazing the rest is cheap.

[5Toyota]

i have owend three 20r powered toyotas my 1977 toyota CORONA wagen would do 75 fulley loaded three kids and wife and piled full and beyond made good for 15 years as old time tec ya no fake rubber timing chain no phony plastic raditor they used that 20r in the celica sports car as well as the truck and the corona sedan and wagen argubly the best moter toyota ever made in my opinyon. This pic is my not overly speedy 1978 minimax differance between that and my 1978 truck alot of wt 60 mph good enough for me in a camper

[stamar]

Oh ya its very reliable famously. Not super economical.

I love my 20r. Its main purpose is to not break down! Because towing a motorhome a long ways could get expensive!

This honda motor ( its an 03 so 25 years newer lol) is super reliable many make it to half million miles. plus its going to give you at least....150 percent of the gas mileage per hp,... and it weighs hundreds of pounds less. so I pull this number out of a hat but I believe in my 20r motorhome which gets 17 mpg, it would get 26 mpg.

and on paper it has the perfect high end boost of 35 hp to get to freeway speeds, while having similar low end torque.

And, it is extremely easily tunable for adding horsepower.

So i daydream about it. I have no intention of doing it.... Barely researched it just for my own interest.

Id have a honda motor in a toyota truck all day honestly. I guess that offends brand loyalists but thats the best of the best.

[Derek up North]

Most Honda engines spin counter clockwise.Most other engines spin clockwise. So you face the real possibility of having a dream motorhome with 4 or 5 reverse gears and 1 forward. Most Honda engine swaps seem to include Honda transmission

http://grassrootsmot...as/19819/page1/

I've read reports that this is powered by Honda (not sure about the front brakes):-

Since you're only dreaming, you might want to consider dreaming about swapping in the 240hp engine/6-speed transmission from the S2000. Of course, in my dreams, fuel economy isn't an issue!!

Many have the 'dream' conversion of the VW TDi.

http://www.google.ca...lient=firefox-a

Or the Lexus V8.

http://www.google.ca...lient=firefox-a

[stamar]

a vw tdi is of course even better seeing as deisel is 30% more effecient than gas.

So I estimate a tdi dolphin 500 actually getting over 30 mpg.

I actually have this honda motor though. Youre right though there are better motors even just from honda. This is a sohc, step 2 civic motor they usually come with 3 or 4. So its not the base civic but its not the si civic or the type r.

as far as spin that ended in 2000, they all go clockwise now. so

whereas Im not sure which way the s2000 spins I do believe theres an s2000 engine that spins each way.

That wouldnt improve gas mileage but would increase top end a lot. I cant even write that word problem but the top speed would definitely reach..... 80 90.... I dont know 230 hp..... top speed is going to be severely drag limited.... Better hill climbing though.

the swap itself would be easier than my k series engine.. though because its rwd so at least the engine fan is pointing forward.... leave teh toyota radiator. Could even adapt to the toyota exhaust for functional exhaust.

[stamar]

one of these would be easier that tdi

http://www.pilotengines.com/servlet/the-Kubota/Categories?utm_campaign=Brand-Kubota-V2203&source=adwords&medium=ppc&gclid=CKny-Niqq7ACFQLktgodIghwTg

because you wouldnt need to have an ecm and all the wires, and it would get better gas mileage too and be cheaper.

tractor motor.

Many kubato diesel swaps out there.

[MAXXFabrication]

Thanks to each of you for the replies. Linda, I'll post back when I complete my mods. WME and Derek are on the money. The stroke on the 20R was a bit shorter (200cc), so the top of the cylinder (in the head) was a bit lower. By chaning heads, the compression ratio is greater since there is less space with the same stroke. The intake manifold on the 20R also was a better design with more flow from the carb.

WME, I've heard a warning or two about a torque decrease with this setup, but I haven't seen anything but positive reviews from actual users (mostly 4wd crawlers, who rely on torque more than HP). Most folks who do this mod also put in an RV cam, which likely more than offsets any torque loss from the compression ratio.

I'll let y'all know my results afterwards. Any other experiences or concerns are welcome.

Thanks,

Dan

The 20R and 22R stroke are both identical, the bore is the only difference period. they have the same connecting rods in each engine, the reason the compression ratio raises is that the 20R head is 81cc's and the 22R head is 83cc's which will raise compression around 1.5

the 20R head had open combustion chambers and the 22R head had a swirl inducing chamber for cleaner emissions.

As for putting a cam in an RV, there is a power increase with a trade of in erratic/poor idle- not something I would want from and RV. they have enough of their own vibrations

here is some schooling on the heads and engine internals so there is no confusion.

note the 3rd from last sentence, "all 20R- 22R-22RE use the same connecting rods and crankshafts"

1975 - 1980 20R Cylinder Head

Round Intake Port

Round Exhaust Port

80/81 C.C. Chamber

Intake Valve Diameter 43mm

Exhaust Valve Diameter 35mm

1981 - 1984 22R Cylinder Head

Square Intake Port

Round Exhaust Port

82/83 C.C. Chamber

Intake Valve Diameter 44.5mm

Exhaust Valve Diameter 36.5mm

1985 - 1995 22R-22RE Cylinder Head

Square Intake Port

Pear Shape Exhaust Port

52/54 C.C. Combustion Chamber

82/83 C.C. Chamber (Turbo) Intake Valve Diameter 44.5mm

Exhaust Valve Diameter 36.5mm

Engine Block Identification

1975 - 1980 20R Block

Deck Height 11.280\"

Stock Bore 88.5mm - 3.484\"

Maximum Over Bore 90.0mm - 3.544\"

1981 - 1984 22R Block

Deck Height 11.280\"

Stock Bore 92.0mm - 3.622\"

Maximum Over Bore (Cast Piston) 93.0mm - 3.662\" (+.040\" Over)

Big Bore Forged Piston Kit 94.0mm - 3.701\" (+.080\" Over)

1985 - 1995 22R-22RE \"Laser Block\"

Deck Height 11.090\"

Stock Bore 92.0mm - 3.622\"

Maximum Over Bore (Cast Piston) 93.0mm - 3.6662\" (+.040\")

Big Bore Forged Piston Kit 94.0mm - 3.701\" (+.080\" Over)

All Toyota 20R - 22R - 22RE engines use the same crankshaft and connecting rods. To accommodate the different deck heights, Toyota changed the compression height (piston pin location).

Crankshaft (Forged)

Stroke All 20R - 22R - 22RE 89mm - 3.5039\"

Rod Journal 2.0861 to 2.086\" (standard)

Main Journal 2.3614 to 2.13622\" (standard)

Connecting Rod (Forged)

Center to center length 5.830\"

[MAXXFabrication]

I have to add my 2 cents on the rebuilt/used engine discussion. a used engine from a obviously wrecked truck or car (Toyota) is usually more reliable than most every rebuild I have ever seen. I have yet to see any rebuild go for 300000 miles plus where a factory built toyota engine will do that every time with proper maintenance.

They were put together under much more scrutiny than shop putting together mix and match parts (cranks, connecting rods, pistons etc) yes they will reuse pistons with just new rings if the cylinder bore isnt damaged.

I believe Toyota had a higher standard in production of engine components than 99% of the aftermarket companys making pistons, bearings, etc.

would you put aftermarket bearings in your front hubs or toyota bearings if you had the choice? the choice is obvious.

if you find a wrecked car with 100000 miles or so on it and do your homework with looking at maintenance records you can score an engine better than most every rebuild out there. just because it was wrecked doesnt mean it is "dumpster diving"

I challenge anyone to show me a rebuild with 200,000 on it since it was redone

[stamar]

you know I hear you on vibration.

Ive had a lot of 4 cylinder motors and the 20 r definitely shakes.

There is something weird about its dimensions. For many years i had a nissan truck with the nissan equivalent z24.

But the 2 motors are very very different even though direct competitors.

The 20 r is very long and tall, so the vibrations are really moving it in the mount.

i wonder if your rebuilt 22r could tow a smart car?

[Davidadro]

I have to add my 2 cents on the rebuilt/used engine discussion. a used engine from a obviously wrecked truck or car (Toyota) is usually more reliable than most every rebuild I have ever seen. I have yet to see any rebuild go for 300000 miles plus where a factory built toyota engine will do that every time with proper maintenance.

They were put together under much more scrutiny than shop putting together mix and match parts (cranks, connecting rods, pistons etc) yes they will reuse pistons with just new rings if the cylinder bore isnt damaged.

I believe Toyota had a higher standard in production of engine components than 99% of the aftermarket companys making pistons, bearings, etc.

would you put aftermarket bearings in your front hubs or toyota bearings if you had the choice? the choice is obvious.

if you find a wrecked car with 100000 miles or so on it and do your homework with looking at maintenance records you can score an engine better than most every rebuild out there. just because it was wrecked doesnt mean it is "dumpster diving"

I challenge anyone to show me a rebuild with 200,000 on it since it was redone

That's an interesting way to look at the whole picture, and true, manufacturers do use standardized parts in assembly, and those that rebuild may use parts that are not up to the spec. As you said, do your homework on the builder, get all you can about the company from BBB, reviews, etc. find one that will give you a parts list in advance to research the products they use in the rebuild. Basically, I look at the engine you buy as if one is buying a whole vehicle that you plan on keeping for many years.

Warranty is one of those key components of your decision making process. Mine was chosen due to all the factors I have listed doing my homework, and the warranty I chose was a lifetime, unlimited mileage warranty, as long as I own the vehicle. Most salvage situations will maybe give ya a 30 day swap credit, so that didn’t set well with me knowing I want to keep my Dolphin till I die, and want it running till then. If it does fail, well, I'm covered long down the road, even if it does'nt make it to the 20,000 miles you are concerned about, i'm pretty confident it will. More than likely, I won't be financially in position later on when retired to be able to invest into such an acceptable replacement.

Good luck to all that are keeping the Yotas alive, and hats off to any that do it their way! It's great that we can individualize the little toys, and make them our own creations from such a cookie cutter design! PEACE all!

[Tom W]

Derek up north, mentioned the CCW rotation wouldn't that be fun driving 1low gear all day or driving backwards with 4 gears

[Dank]

you know I hear you on vibration.

Ive had a lot of 4 cylinder motors and the 20 r definitely shakes.

There is something weird about its dimensions. For many years i had a nissan truck with the nissan equivalent z24.

But the 2 motors are very very different even though direct competitors.

The 20 r is very long and tall, so the vibrations are really moving it in the mount.

i wonder if your rebuilt 22r could tow a smart car?

Stamar,

Based on what I've seen online, a Smart car is around 1800 lbs, right? If so, I think it would be a pretty miserable experience to tow it with a 22R unless you were on the interstate with extremely flat terrain. Even if you built one to put out 150 hp at 5000 rpms, you wouldn't want to run it at those rpms (you wouldn't be able to hear yourself think)! Your max torque just wouldn't be high enough to keep your speed up even on small inclines. I just don't think any 4-cylinder engine out there would be able to comfortably tow 2000 lbs. I'd be considering a torquey V6 swap for that much weight...

Dan

[Dank]

Since I stirred up these hornets, I owe it to y'all to report on my progress. I used some 3" channel steel and tied into the main truck frame in order to add a receiver capable of carrying several hundred pounds. I bought a lightweight motorcycle carrier that plugs into the 2" receiver. The new frame and hitch steel probably added 100 - 150 lbs of weight. The scooter is around 250lbs. So I'm carrying maybe 400 lbs extra now with the scooter.

For the engine work, I bought a used 20R head and intake, a new camshaft (268 torker from engnbldr.com), a new Weber 32/36 carb, and an old but new Downey 4-1 header. I aso ran new 2" exhaust, cat converter, and muffler. No other changes were made, and the 20R head was stock other than the cam.

We had a vacation planned, and the exhaust work took me longer than I expected. So it's the day we're supposed to leave for a 600 mile trip, and I don't have the head on the engine yet . I my haste, I forgot to add water before I cranked it the first time to break in the new cam. So 10 minutes later it's overheating and I realize what I've done. I added water and completed my break-in, packed up and left.

So early in my trip, I'm tickled pink. Even with the extra weight of the scooter, I'm chugging up a pretty good grade at 55 mph in 4th gear (4 speed trans). But as the trip continues over the hundreds of miles, it seems like it's getting weaker. On the way home a few days later, she's really struggling on some of the interstate grades in southern Virginia. Now I'm not so tickled... is it my imagination?

So when I got home, I did a compression check. Number 4 cylinder is 20 - 25 lower than the others. Off comes the head. I find that my #4 cylinder has galling on the far wall. Apparently when I overheated it while breaking in the cam, #4 got just hot enough to cause a bit of galling. Apparently as I drove, the rubbing of the rings agains the galled cylinder wall heated the rings up, likely messing up their ability to seal. So I was probably running on 3-1/2 cylinders at best... at least that's what I'm hoping.

If the first leg of my trip was an indication of future results (once I get all cylinders on-board), then I'll be very satisfied with my upgrades. The bottom line is that we can only expect so much from a 2400 cc 4 cylinder engine...going 55 mph on the interstate seems like a fair expectation . If this doesn't work, I'll be making some gearing changes...

Sorry for the long post. Hope it's useful to someone...

Dan

[mighty gopher]

Are there any real world performance enhancements for the 22 re. These pie in the sky engine swap imaginary details are like prescribing viagra for your 22re. Not helpful but laughable. A counter rotating honda in a toyota truck? was stroke and low end torque part of that discussion?

[TigersRreal]

On 5/29/2012 at 10:19 PM, Davidadro said:

I purchased a 22R longblock for my 1983 Dolphin that has a 4 speed manual. I got it from Oregon Engine Rebuilders, and is their "SUPER STOCK" version that comes equipped with hypereutectic pistons and wrist-pins, over-sized IN&EX swirl-polished, chrome tipped valves, torque RV Crane cam shaft with 425/IN and 440/EX lift. It has a lifetime warranty, and even with shipping, it was quite reasonable. They offer long blocks for pre and post 1983 models.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item2eb88f0040

I also put on a new rebuilt carb, new erg and smog pump, plug wires, etc. I just took a vacation to Kentucky, and was able to pull a rented u-haul motorcycle trailer carrying my Harley XL1200 at 60 to 65 MPH comfortably, power and torque was there, and even going up hills it rarely fell below 55 MPH. There is also out there at speedshop websites offering a bolt on supercharger unit with your choice of carb that will boost power tremendously, but your talking a pricey upgrade. If I can haul my Harley & your gonna haul a scooter, the replacement I have done would pull it fine one would think. Peace!

This sounds awesome, Davidadro. How's it been lately?

[WME]

With the basic speed parts. A 22r goes 109 hp to something in the 120 hp range. A 22RE goes 113hp to the 135 range.

Bolt on basic stuff is cam, header, weber carb. On a 22re a larger TB works at the upper range as do oversized valves but both are passed bolt on stuff.