Derek up North Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'm not sure who 'he' is, but I understand tapered threads perfectly well. Even without a video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 then why would you provide torque specs in context of gas/lp/propane pipe fittings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Because there are torque specs available. Overtightening can actually split fittings or strip threads. I assume you watched your posted video and use some pipe dope? Did you know anything about pipe threads before embarking on this endevour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Even pipe threads get some pipe dope when used for gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 If you bothered to read my posts that was covered. Dope was used. And there are no legitimate specs on torque down of tapered threads used in lp pipe applications you don't use a torque wrench on these tapered threaded fittings. I'm afraid I have caught you in a mistake. Admit your specs are for non tapered threads or show your source. If your source is for plumbing then you have succeeded in finding specs no plumber has ever found before. If not you've made an error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Take your pick. I don't remember which one I posted but I'm sure you'll find it if you look. https://www.google.com/search?q=npt+torque+standard&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=npt+torque+standard&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMIsK_1mPLtxwIV0QeSCh3DxgCU&biw=1252&bih=581 P.S. NPT means tapered threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 The inverse relationship of torque to psi charts you have posted doesnt qualify. The specific chart you posted is of interest. There is NO recommended torque for pipe fittings... The tighter they are made the more pressure they can withstand. telling me that I should not be giving myself a hernia, bottoming out or have anything to do with thread quality; especially when they are the original factory fittings makes no sense, it's clear that I didn't tighten them enough. Your statement warned of crushing threads, I popped no threads and it would be impossible to "bottom out" lest I hit the other wall of the tank. It's ok, up north we all make mistakes... Even you. Also your "npt" chart is missing psi.. A bit relevant here don't you think? What psi is the context of the chart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 OK, then solve your problem by giving yourself a hernia. I won't feel your pain from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 how would you even measure torque on a pipe wrench anyway? I should just let a horse rot but I simply must ask this. (cue Derek's next post - the torque measuring pipe wrench; standard fare in every Canadian plumbers toolbox...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Since you persist in thinking I know nothing, perhaps you might want to contact these few (of many) and correct and educate them as well. http://www.entegrisfluidhandling.com/Product.aspx?G=1054 http://www.stoneagetools.com/PDF/torque_recommendations_2010.pdf https://www.surpluscenter.com/images/techhelp/NPT.pdf http://www.stoneagetools.com/PDF/Papers/PIPE%20THREADS-WHAT%20IS%20THE%20LIMIT.pdf Hey, YOU'RE the one with leaks using YOUR method. http://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/1341547887953_9621840.png Credo to live by:- Think twice, post once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 how would you even measure torque on a pipe wrench anyway? I should just let a horse rot but I simply must ask this. (cue Derek's next post - the torque measuring pipe wrench; standard fare in every Canadian plumbers toolbox...) Sorry, I forgot to answer your most recent question. If your tool box consists of only a BFH and pipe wrench, you might want to supplement it with a torque wrench and a selection of crow's-foot wrenches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 and since the first & second link in your list above proves you can't prove you do know anything on this topic( Not that I was insinuating that.) 1 npt 95-120 ft-lb (129-163 N-m) 1-1/4 npt 130-150 ft-lb (176-203 N-m) hmm, lets just say I bite and humor you... what exactly are the sizes for the fitting mentioned in this topic again? don't answer that...because even if there is a standard, say like ANSI standard...wouldn't it always be the same? why is it each of your sources cites a different torque? would 78 lbs be considered "close enough" to 120? Let me rephrase, can a guy that bench presses 250 lbs bench press 500 lbs? the true answer is no... yes. depends on the guy. and that's why there is no standard on something like this. Up north you must be roid raging to be able to easily turn 120 - 150 ft lbs of torque. funny the first link you post shows 78 lbs for the same size NPT. still yet a few pages ago a different setting in the 30s I think. units of measure require a tool to do it, a scale. in mechanics a torque wrench would do this... so where is my torque wrench for NPT plumbing fittings? what about the difference in dopes, tapes, fitting material? So enlighten me with your wrench and why ANSI has no such specifications? why does ANSI speak to "turns of the wrench" and not foot lbs? (hint the answer is in this post above ^). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 ok you have jumped the shark and produced some absolutely insane "tool" set that no normal plumber would carry. pipe wrenches are just that ; the moniker comes not only from the pipe they are attempting to turn but also the fact a pipe may be put on them for more leverage due to the "torque" required to stop the leak. I failed to get this torque on some of my fittings, but your snark on stating that there are recommended standards for torqueing down NPT is simply laughable. Dare I say even cult like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Well, why don't you just put a 6' length of pipe on your pipe wrench and solve your leak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 14, 2015 Author Share Posted September 14, 2015 I will. alas I must tighten even more to make the fitting turn to the position it should be in specifically as the gauge that bolts into the propane fuel bulb plug only bolts one way. Well I suppose I can unscrew it and try rescrewing it from another position. its NOT an exact science. I do feel I did not nearly torque them down enough in retrospect as mentioned. holding the tank in between my legs while turning my largest pipewrench didn't exactly offer me much leverage. I cannot torque it down mounted as the gauge must be facing the sky so the float can drop. I don't have a vice that's big enough to hold he tank steady so I am up for non snarky suggestions as to how to hold the thing steady while I do get out the 6 foot extension... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I will. alas I must tighten even more to make the fitting turn to the position it should be in specifically as the gauge that bolts into the propane fuel bulb plug only bolts one way. Well I suppose I can unscrew it and try rescrewing it from another position. its NOT an exact science. I do feel I did not nearly torque them down enough in retrospect as mentioned. holding the tank in between my legs while turning my largest pipewrench didn't exactly offer me much leverage. I cannot torque it down mounted as the gauge must be facing the sky so the float can drop. I don't have a vice that's big enough to hold he tank steady so I am up for non snarky suggestions as to how to hold the thing steady while I do get out the 6 foot extension...It sounds like you need another person to hold the tank in place. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 This will keep you safe to some extent.Wrench size to pipe diameter. This does not mean both feet against the pipe or tank. 6″ 1/8″ -1/2″ 8″ 1/4″ -3/4″ 10″ 1/4″ - 1″ 12″ 1/2″ - 11/2″ 14″ 1/2″ - 11/2″ 18″ 1″ - 2″ 24″ 11/2″ - 21/2″ 36″ 2″ - 31/2″ 48″ 3″ - 5″ 60″ 3″ - 8″ Teflon pipe dope lubricates the pipe thread so you need to back off the torque. If there are no threads showing it is way too tight, 3 threads showing is about right. This is a very good gas pipe dope - Gasolia. I'm no pipe fitter so don't argue with me this came from a gas pipe fitter that did work for us at our jail I thought it was useful so I kept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 I used gasolia but did not put tape on also.. should I use both? the new brass fittings that don't leak came pretreated with some blue stuff on the threads... not sure what that was or if its helping. seems it does, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 No just the dope. I believe the blue stuff is lock tight not a sealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-tru-blu/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-tru-blu/ OK it's both.Guess it just adheres to the threads as they turn it's hard as a rock in the fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 An odd thread in that on page 1 the most commonly suggested sealant is Loctite and suddenly on page 2 everyone is suddenly praising Rectorseal! http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/pipe-joint-sealants-144464/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 to me Loctite is for keeping something from moving not to seal pressure from leaking. but what the heck do I know, I still use pipe wrenches on pipes instead of torque wrenches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 You might want to get out more. Loctite makes more than one product. http://www.homelectrical.com/567-pst-thread-sealant-high-temperature.loc-56747.1.html?utm_source=Shopping&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=CSE& "... but what the heck do I know." Good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 I find getting out more to be less satisfying than watching someone try to grip a pipe with a fixed wrench. some brass fittings may have a size but only a pipe wrench is going to bite a pipe or irregularly shaped fitting to turn it. Its too bad you don't have high speed internet, because other than googling esoteric products and sheets you could in fact show us those wrenches in use and tell us how well they work on the service valve or standard pipes (which are round). I would very much like you to find me a torque measuring pipe wrench. one that is adjustable. I know they exist but find me one anyway so that I may know more, like you do. seems these guys disagree with the accuracy of your contraption: http://www.finishing.com/118/94_crows_foot_torque.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 This will keep you safe to some extent.Wrench size to pipe diameter. This does not mean both feet against the pipe or tank. 6″ 1/8″ -1/2″ 8″ 1/4″ -3/4″ 10″ 1/4″ - 1″ 12″ 1/2″ - 11/2″ 14″ 1/2″ - 11/2″ 18″ 1″ - 2″ 24″ 11/2″ - 21/2″ 36″ 2″ - 31/2″ 48″ 3″ - 5″ 60″ 3″ - 8″ Teflon pipe dope lubricates the pipe thread so you need to back off the torque. If there are no threads showing it is way too tight, 3 threads showing is about right. This is a very good gas pipe dope - Gasolia. I'm no pipe fitter so don't argue with me this came from a gas pipe fitter that did work for us at our jail I thought it was useful so I kept it. these are crows foot wrenches? I must surely be the only guy using an adjustable pipe wrench on earth, for pipes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 these are crows foot wrenches? I must surely be the only guy using an adjustable pipe wrench on earth, for pipes.. By they time you get up to a 60" pipe wrench it better be aluminum. Handle length, like I said no feet kind of limits the torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLGASUNRADER Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I'm glad to have found such an active propane discussion. I openly admit that I know very little about our propane tanks. I have a 1990 Sunrader and noticed that when you open or shut the main valve there is a lot of leakage. I'm assuming this is not normal, nor is it safe. When the valve is back seated it does seem to stop. I have been trying to find someone to take a look at it to educate me but have fallen short every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I'm glad to have found such an active propane discussion. I openly admit that I know very little about our propane tanks. I have a 1990 Sunrader and noticed that when you open or shut the main valve there is a lot of leakage. I'm assuming this is not normal, nor is it safe. When the valve is back seated it does seem to stop. I have been trying to find someone to take a look at it to educate me but have fallen short every time.Valves are supposed to be all the way on or all the way off to seat properly. Some leakage in between is normal. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLGASUNRADER Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I can understand "some" leakage but at what point does it become excessive? Should I not be comparing it to a normal grill propane tank? I have been avoiding using it like the plague for fear of a continuous small leak while in operation, especially with the heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 You can always check it for leaks in the fully open position with some soapy solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 how about that good but very nasty to use black brush on permetex 300 my can says good for 5000 psI. never used it for propane myself I like it for outside galvinised pipe or air lines . eng water pumps etc says on can for all kinds of oils fuels. I have used on gear carrier rear end . nasty to use but really seals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think I would replace that valve. I had an old bbq tank like that I got rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 the ones I installed also came with that blue stuff on them but I put them on with the tank on the moter home I used a 18 inch creasent wrench . but that was on the new parts only. and no cheater pipe. I once twisted the end off a 3/4 water pipe with a 24 inch pipe wrench and a 6 foot cheater pipe on an 18 inch pipe wrench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 My plan is to ...ugh <sigh> drop the tank again... and get out the brass wire wheel from my dremmel... disassemble the gauge and service fittings wipe off the dope and take my time wire wheeling the threads of the tank AND the fittings till they are clean. I didn't do a very thorough job cleaning threads and figured the dope would do the trick. In my mind its a combination of crap in threads, POR 15 in the outer threads and position (I couldn't get grunt and tug tight without backing off on the service valve, so I re doped and put on again and just counted turns, like what I was taught is all one can do. At the end of the day, im gonna attack it with clean threads, dope, but also cheater bar and this time demand wife hold tank for me while I torque it down to gut buster in position tight... that's what I did on the new brass fittings and they don't leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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