jjrbus Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 93 Toyota Sea Breeze V6 Auto 3VZ-E. I have the great misfortune of not having service records for my Toy. There is a sticker that shows the timing belt was replaced at 60,000 miles in 2001. Now 93,000 mi. So the belt is 14 years old, I will replace it while I have things apart along with the water pump and tensioner. What I do not know is if the valves were adjusted at 60k. While everything is out seems an opportune time to adjust them. Adjustment is beyond my skill level and I do not want to tear it down more than needed. I can get a mobile mechanic in to adjust them once it is apart, if I have too. The motor runs well and has plenty of power. Today I did a compression test and am I envious of people with the 4 cyl, what a PIA that V6 is to work on! The compression ranges from 160 to 170. Bear in mind on these numbers I am not a mechanic and do not have top of the line tool's, I also did the test on a cold engine. My question is would the compression #'s indicate weather the valves need adjusting? Any input, thoughts, ideas, wisdom, offers of help (free), advice, chit chat, criticism or wisecracks greatly appreciated. Jim SW FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Other people will know way more, but as far as I know, a compression test doesn't have anything to do with valve adjustment. They only affect the engine when it's running. Compression test tells you whether your rings or valves are allowing oil past them, but not whether anything is out of adjustment. Low compression means replacing stuff, not adjusting stuff. But I think those numbers are actually pretty good, though I only know 4 cylinder specs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 The compression ranges from 160 to 170. Bear in mind on these numbers I am not a mechanic and do not have top of the line tool's, I also did the test on a cold engine. My question is would the compression #'s indicate weather the valves need adjusting? Any input, thoughts, ideas, wisdom, offers of help (free), advice, chit chat, criticism or wisecracks greatly appreciated. Jim SW FL Compression-test readings will only tell you if the valve-clearance is loose enough to permit the valves to close during the compression stroke. Proper valve clearance puts the valve timing in the correct place and a compression gauge won't indicate if that is correct of not. The actual pressure reading you get is also not very important. What IS important is whatever reading you get - it basically even across all cylinders. If you DO get a low cylinder - a further test is to squirt some oil in it and then re-test. If oil makes the reading come up - the low compression is due to a worn cylinder-area. If adding oil changes nothing - it's leaking valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgibson4 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I found this, supposed to be for a 1991: "The spec's are: 171 standard, 142 min, & 14psi max difference" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Adjustment is beyond my skill level ... How about checking the valve clearances? They might be within spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Checking clearances, there's a thought! Will it need to be running to check clearances?? Hooked everything back up and it still runs , I am getting closer to the coveted "shade tree mechanic" title. Jim SW FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 No, not running. Due to the bits that need to be removed to access the valves, checking clearances while running (or even hot) is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I wonder if someone could chime in who's done the 3VZE valve adjustment and briefly describe the process for Jim and the rest of us - ? I've done a valve adjustment on a 93 5SFE which used little buckets and metal discs/shims to adjust clearances; is this a similar job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 - ? I've done a valve adjustment on a 93 5SFE which used little buckets and metal discs/shims to adjust clearances; is this a similar job? Yep same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you have a low cylinder with the 3L V6 chances are a tight valve the compression figures you are getting are fine. A tight valve left to it's own devices will eventually burn particularly the exhaust valves seldom the intakes burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 I have been web surfing for checking valves on 3VZ-E. From the amount of info I am finding on the web it appears that few people are doing it? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Perhaps not. But perhaps one of the reasons the 3VZ-E has a poor reputation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I have been web surfing for checking valves on 3VZ-E. From the amount of info I am finding on the web it appears that few people are doing it? Jim I assume few people do it because it is a HUGE pain-in-the-behind. A serious design flaw on the part of Toyota AND Nissan (they had a similar setup for awhile). I can't comprehend why Toyota did not just use self-adjusting hydraulic lifters if they wanted a so-called "low maintenance" valve-train. Who the Hell wants to remove their camshafts, cam gears, plenum, etc.and buy/borrow a bunch of tools to get the lifter/shim/buckets set up properly?? It seems that some want-to-be engineering genius at Toyota thought he/she could design a mechanical valve-lift system that would self-adjust as it wore and keep lash a constant. NOPE. DID NOT WORK. Maybe valve-seat recession was more then anticipated. It was, and still is - a piss-poor design. That being said, I assume that an engine that's done over with ultra-hard valves and valve-seats, along with high ZDDP motor oil - will last a long time between valve clearance "adjustments." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 One side-note. I don't use phrases like "pain in the behind" like my post shows. Seems the automated word-police changed it. I guess now "a*s" is some sort of banned and vile word?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rad wolfe Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Originally the phrase was 'pain in the a-r-s-e' but earlier on the word police got to it and amended it to the current 'pain in the a-s-s'. soon urinate-poor & not-heaven will substitue for piss-poor & hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Strangely that design has been around for at least 70 years. My 2011 Toyota V6 has 24 shimmed valves, one owner I know has over 350 thousand miles on his 06 Tacoma. The 3 liter Toyota did have issues that may have been linked to valve seat alloys but generally the adjustment will out last the valve. The design came from race engines to reduce valve train weight allowing higher revving engines the logic is every part involved wares at the same rate meaning the adjustment will remain the same through out the life of the valve and in all most every case I have found that to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well, the Service Schedule does say 'Check and adjust' and not 'Adjust'. So if you're half way in there doing the timing belt @ 60k miles, it certainly makes sense (to me) to at least 'check'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Who the Hell wants to remove their camshafts, cam gears, plenum, etc.and buy/borrow a bunch of tools to get the lifter/shim/buckets set up properly?? So, I'm still a little confused about the adjustment process: If this motor uses the same kind of bucket/shim setup that I've serviced on the 5SFE, why do you have to pull the camshafts and cam gears? Should be able to rotate the engine 'til cam lobe is up and off a given valve, press the bucket down with the SST, and then draw out the shim with a magnet... all with the cams in place. What am I missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I might have missed it, but I think the cams can stay in place for the 3VZ-E. I have a very vague fuzzy memory that cam removal was needed for the Jag XK engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 One side-note. I don't use phrases like "pain in the behind" like my post shows. Seems the automated word-police changed it. I guess now "a*s" is some sort of banned and vile word?? My use of such 'colourful' terms/phrases depends on the situation and 'audience'. Since I don't know who will be reading this, I prefer to err on the conservative side out of respect for others. I don't know anything about the computer 'censor'. No idea if it's optional or customizable. I guess you could say that I Auto-Censor myself without thinking much about it. I don't really consider it a PITA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Here in lies my confusion. There is little on the web on this and what is there is not clear and confusing. Some allude that the valve adjustment requires the removal of the cam, others that it is much easier to do with the cam removed, so while the timing belt is out is a good time to do it. Then it can also be done by just removing the valve covers and such with the proper tools. There is reference to exotic, specialized, expensive tools needed. As near as I can figure they cost $40 and are available on Ebay, I could be wrong? There is a zillion You Tube videos on car repair and not (that I can find) one on adjusting the valves on a 3VZ-E without disassembling the motor. At this time I am at my limits doing Timing belt, changing to 134a and such and do not also want to be pulling cams and chasing down shims. Thanks for the input, always greatly appreciated Jim SW FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 The change of shim packs can be done with the cams in, or out. Some find it easier and quicker to do it with the camshafts out, depending on what tools are on hand. When it comes to stories of engines lasting hundreds of thousands of miles with no lash-adjustments needed? Might be a few anomalies out there, but so what?? I got 520,000 miles on my 1987 Chevy Suburban with a 6.2 diesel - while most were blown before 200K and many before 100K miles. Toyota certainly lacked some confidence in the valve train, timing belts, and head-gaskets. As compared to the Toyota 20R and 22R, the V6 is indeed a dog. Doesn't make it a bad engine in the generic sense, but does make it a poor one as compared to the others Toyota made in the era. Especially now when shop labor can be so damn expensive if someone does not do their own work. 60K timing-belt change interval on an engine other then a Ford Pinto or Chevy Chevette is kind of ridiculous. The head-gasket fiasco also not a great tribute to Toyota engineering success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=635890&group_id=675628&supersede=&tool=all Heres what you use with the cams in place. BUT first check valve clearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I used this very similar set on my 93 Celica last year: http://amzn.com/B0014DF1AG And, word to the wise: if you have to get in there and start pulling/measuring shims to adjust clearances, do not rotate the engine with an "empty bucket." When a shim is out, the cam lobe can catch the edge of the empty bucket and do serious damage. So, pull the shim, measure it, and put it back before moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'm slowly getting there. Remember now I am not a mechanic, I am an Engineer. So I should be capable of measuring whatever needs to be measured and then decide if they need to be adjusted. Engineer = I blew the horn, I rang the bell. When it jumped the track's I'm the one that caught h***. Suppose I can't say hell? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I guess you've seen this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 No I had not seen it. Perfect, exactly what I needed. So it is not rocket science that requires a shop full of specialized tools or major disassemble of the engine. If it still runs after I get done fixing it I will check the valve clearance :lol2: Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If you're not up to making your own YouTube video, maybe you could comment here on any differences you notice from this video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have never tried a video, will give it a go. May be a while till I get to it. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have never tried a video, will give it a go. May be a while till I get to it. Jim Couple photos of the exposed valve train would be much appreciated too, if the video shoot's a no-go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 the V6 uses shims. To get to them you have to pull the top of the engine off. I understand that they can be checked and adjusted without pulling the camshafts. Apparently there are different opinions ranging from "if it runs good leave it a lone" to "every 60k". Mine is at 90K so I did the Timing belt (have to take off the front of the engine, not the top). If you can detect valve issues with compression testing your engine is probably just barely running and running rather crappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 While we are on the subject. Not knowing what I am doing I have many questions. I'm guessing the cam will need to be rotated to align it for checking clearances, what is the best/easiest way to rotate it, without disassembling the engine? JIm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If the timing belt is still installed, use a socket and a ratchet and turn the engine from the crankshaft. If the belt is off find all the timing marks on the cam sprockets and then turn with a socket and ratchet. Return timing marks to alignment and install timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 On 6/5/2015 at 1:26 PM, jjrbus said: I have never tried a video, will give it a go. May be a while till I get to it. Jim So did you ever try and tackle this problem yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 33 minutes ago, redskinman said: So did you ever try and tackle this problem yourself? No I have yet to try it. I have had to work on so many other things that I don't have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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