Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I've put a few thousand miles on my Toyota (1987 Escaper 22RE) since I purchased it. I have restored and fixed many of the things on the truck during owning it. Within the last few trips I have had a few instances of the truck getting hot while at long idles and sometimes when cruising. It also sometimes had a long start and rough idle. I installed a new throttle position sensor since the one on it was cracked. I eventually noticed it seemed to be losing coolant between drives. I have replaced all radiator hoses, thermostat, radiator cap, water pump, and fan clutch to ensure I have a functional clean coolant system. I also flushed the system while it was apart. After doing all of this and driving it for two days I once again had the trucks water temp rising. It was still losing coolant. The next thing I did was let the truck idle, and pull one spark plug wire at a time to see how the truck reacted. I ended up finding cylinder 4 not firing and a fouled plug. Replaced the plug and had a clean spark and it still ran rough. I then pretty much concluded that the head gasket was leaking water into cylinder 4 and fouling the plug and also causing poor engine performance. It also appeared to be putting some water out of the exhaust. The next day I started pulling the engine apart and eventually got the head off. Head Gasket removed, notice anything unusual? It looks like water was making it into cylinders 3 and 4. I was also kinda disappointed to see the cylinders had some nice grooves worn into them. So I will be having the head resurfaced and rebuilt, the block will be ported and new pistons. I may put a RV Cam into it while it's apart and was considering new injectors. Also a new timing chain. I figured some people may find this helpful or interesting. I will update as I continue with this repair. I will be removing the block tomorrow, stay tuned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks for the pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefdave Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hi sorry to hear you have a very poorly engine. updates will be good to have. not a an easy job to remove an engine. last one i did took 4 hours from opening bonnet then labeling wires etc etc. rebuilt carb at same time. needed a hand to get block out one on engine hoist and other to guide block off gear box and then out of engine carpartment. took engine rebuilder 4 days to rebuild my entire engine. since sold car but understand motor is sweet as nut. so must of run it in correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You can't really look and see coolant leaks once you have the head off. As soon as you pull it, coolant pours everywhere. I'm sure you are correct that you had a leak in #4, but you wouldn't be able to tell by seeing coolant there after pulling the head. It always hurts, financially, to do these kind of jobs...but it's always so nice to have a rebuilt engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 So you aren't rebuilding the block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 If you run a finger nail over the grooves and you can feel it catch then you will have to bore it oversizes and install new pistions. If you finger nail doesnt catch then you can hone it out and reuse the pistons and install new rings. You might check on ebay for a short block it might be cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 As stated in the original post, the block will be rebuilt. Also regarding the coolant in the cylinder, this was not determined by seeing physical coolant in the cylinder (although the exhaust port on cylinder 4 had obvious water signs), the head gasket is what shows the water leak in the second picture. You can see the red rust spot where the water had been making it through the gasket and into cylinder 3/4. The grooves definitely catch fingernail but I plan on rebuilding the block regardless while it's apart. It would be dumb not to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Pretty common it was also leaking compression between 3 and 4. If you are going to install a performance cam I highly recommend better valve springs.It would also be a good time for a new chain and guides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Oh. I just read "ported and new pistons", didn't realize by that you meant rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 As stated in the original post, the block will be rebuilt. Also regarding the coolant in the cylinder, this was not determined by seeing physical coolant in the cylinder (although the exhaust port on cylinder 4 had obvious water signs), the head gasket is what shows the water leak in the second picture. You can see the red rust spot where the water had been making it through the gasket and into cylinder 3/4. The grooves definitely catch fingernail but I plan on rebuilding the block regardless while it's apart. It would be dumb not to! The clean piston is a dead give away coolant was getting in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 By port I meant boring and honing the cylinders and the new pistons as well as checking all bearing clearances. The block was just pulled, I will have more pics and info up tonight. Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I have nightmares about whats going on in my engine. I do have overheating when stopped. I do have rough idle when cold. I do consume coolant on long trips. My oil gets filthy in 2k miles ive changed it 3 times in 6k miles Im thinking its a radiator but it could be an internal leak like this. It only consumes water in freeway trips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 http://www.powertrainproducts.net/ Found this company to be best deal on rebuilt engines. Nice thing is they waive the core charge if old engine is returned within 30 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have nightmares about whats going on in my engine. I do have overheating when stopped. I do have rough idle when cold. I do consume coolant on long trips. My oil gets filthy in 2k miles ive changed it 3 times in 6k miles Im thinking its a radiator but it could be an internal leak like this. It only consumes water in freeway trips Take a look at the oil next time you change it and see what color it is. Mine was an almost milky texture and somewhat yellow showing signs of coolant in the oil. So about 4 or 5 hours later, and a make shift engine hoist, I had the block out of the truck. Everything in the engine looked to be in great shape (other than the cylinders obviously), and the timing chain and sprocket looked almost new. A liquid gasket material on the oil pan makes me think this engine has been apart before, unless Toyota used a liquid gasket which I highly doubt. The only unusual thing I saw during the whole process was something to do with the radiator. In this picture you can see the entire radiator. It has the two main coolant lines, but it also has the two small copper outlets on the bottom of the radiator. I believe these went to the transmission if I remember correctly. Or possibly it is a coolant system for the power steering fluid? I thought a transmission cooler had a separate radiator. Anyways, these two lines did have hoses going to them and I was pretty confused when I pulled the hoses off to see that the one like looks like it is factory crimped. Is there any possible way this thing could still flow?? Does anyone have any info on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Not milky but dirty getting black Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Those are trans coolant lines. Normally your messed up one goes to your external trans cooler or bqck to the trans if you dont have one. With that being clogged yo ur trans should go out overnight. If that doesnt kill it it might overheat the radiator itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 You know whats peculiar about that is here on this forum someone claimed to have installed a Manual radiator with no trans cooler on their auto toyhome. Which in a normal vehicle would burn out the trans in a day. Much less 6000 pound one. So i will add this to the possible miraculous cooling a43d file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Thats not the stock radiator also so you may have not driven it lIke that enough to kill your trans but change all the fluid its Burnt. Dont believe in the miraculous just yet. Are youusing just the external cooler then? Take a picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Edit your messed up one is the intake from the trans. The other one goes to the cooler and from the cooler back to the trans. The external cooler works with the radiator one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 So it uses 2 separate trans. coolers? The truck is at my shop so I cannot go look at it this moment but will be there again Monday to clean the block and head to take it to my machine shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yes the one in your radiator and the external air cooler Just the air cooler will not do it unless you are always on the freeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I dont guarantee an escaper comes with an external trans cooler like a dolphin but ive never seen an 87 that didnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Who installed your radiator and when is the question? Is your external cooler bypassing the radiator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Assuming you have an automatic transmission, the radiator shipped from the factory would have part of it used to cool the transmission fluid. Some (but not all) motorhomes have another external cooler added to the circuit. It's possible to use a manual transmission spec radiator in an automatic but this would involve using a really big external cooler/radiator. For sure you've got to have some way to get rid of the heat generated by the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 So can anyone give me any input on the line being crimped? Any reason why it would be like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Makes no sense to me if there was a hose attached to it. No ATF is going to flow through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Fa ctory defect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 So it uses 2 separate trans. coolers? The truck is at my shop so I cannot go look at it this moment but will be there again Monday to clean the block and head to take it to my machine shop. Seperate if you mean they are two seperated coolers but they are both on the same cooling line they are what would be called daisy chained. The end of one has a hose to the otherOne cooled by your radiator which has a water pump for idling cooling. One cooled by just air for on the freeway. Just using an air cooler is more for offroad vehicles. No matter how big it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5993&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 It would definitely cause a problem like this. Btw wow your motorhome has had a lot of trouble. Honestly toyota transmissions cook in easy to fix ways i think you have given us heart with your misfortune. American transmissions just stick with no warning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 If there is no other cooler you would have cooked the trans long time ago. I doubt it would have lasted a day. Too bad some one squashed the fitting it would have been better with two coolers. The radiator one is what would have been stock the add on will be a finned cooler like a small radiator mounted usually in front of the radiator. Your radiator is a replacement aluminum one not one of the better radiators if you were having any over heating problems you may want to go with a brass 3 tube one. If you are ok with the heating I would try to fix the squashed fitting and get it in line with the other trans cooler they need all the cooling they can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 I considered that this may have been the reason for the rear transmission extension housing seal taking a crap. As far as my toyota having lots of problems lets not forget that it is a 27 year old truck that sat for several years before my purchase The squashed fitting is just pure confusing considering it is obviously a factory crimp as clean as it is. That means whoever installed that radiator HAD to know that that line was crimped and still hooked up to it for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yes who was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted January 26, 2014 Author Share Posted January 26, 2014 If only I knew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I think you have been cooking the trans the entire time as waiter said the seal blows when the transmission fluid is too hot. Perhaps some toyota engineering When youre reassembled change out the atf in the trans. Cut off the end of the fitting and get a hose clamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 My guess they just by passed it because it was squashed and they did not want to buy another radiator. If your extension seal was leaking it would be a real good ideal to have a look at the bushing in the tail stock if it is bad it will cause you far more grief than just a leaking seal generally the seal starts to leak when the bushing goes bad not from heat. You have a cooler some where in the system other wise the transmission would be toast it's not a maybe they can not survive with no cooling for very long and we are not talking days, weeks or years. But you need to get the water cooling on line the air cooler is not enough. I would try fixing what you got you have nothing to lose squish it with pliers then use needle nose pliers to try and make it round if they don't have that little bump on the fitting a clamp won't hold it for long. If the fluid is dark or smells it will need to be flushed not just drained a complete replacement of all the fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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