Type of Oil - Amsoil?

[ipo]

Hi, I'm pretty new to Toyota MHs. I've had one for a number of years, but wasn't able to use it. Now I want to check everything, give it what it needs etc. My question is: Do I need a special oil because it's pulling weight or can I go with standard oil 10-30w. I currently use Amsoil 0-30w in my 2010 Tacoma and I'd really like to use Amsoil in the motorhome. Does anyone use Amsoil? What oil would you recommend, Amsoil or not.

Thanks

[MontanaChinook]

I wouldn't start using a synthetic in an old engine that's used to regular oil.

But you can use whatever oil you want. I'd say most people around here just use regular oil. But yeah, technically because of the motorhome, you're never really driving under "light duty" conditions.

The only issue with synthetics is that they work really well to clean out gunk. In an old engine, a lot of what is keeping the seals from leaking is built up gunk. You clean that out with synthetic oil, and suddenly you've got some oil leaks...

At least that's the theory.

The rebuilt engine on my old 83 pickup leaked a tiny bit from the start out of the timing cover and oil pan. It leaked a lot worse with synthetic...

I'd say use whatever oil you like, though. Everyone has an opinion...

[linda s]

I use 10-40 and always Valvoline.

Linda S

[Maineah]

Yeah 10-40 that's fine for any thing that is only used when it's warm. I would say pretty much any brand name oil, if you ask 10 people what they say is the best you'll get 10 different answers. Even in my 2011 Tacoma I use what's on sale guess it must be OK never sold any thing yet with less than 200K on it. Personally I think syn. oil is a waste of money.

[ipo]

The theory behind not using synthetic in an old engine makes sense to me. Thanks

I was thinking maybe 10-40 now you've confirmed it.

[ipo]

Yeah 10-40 that's fine for any thing that is only used when it's warm. I would say pretty much any brand name oil, if you ask 10 people what they say is the best you'll get 10 different answers. Even in my 2011 Tacoma I use what's on sale guess it must be OK never sold any thing yet with less than 200K on it. Personally I think syn. oil is a waste of money.

What would you say is the cut-off temp for the 10-40 and what would you use in colder temps?

[MontanaChinook]

Yeah they have this info in shop manuals, but never on the bottle of oil! I never remember...I wish they would put that little temp chart right on all oil cans.

[Vanman]

Several years ago I switched everything over to Mobil-1 with no problems.
High Mileage (over 75,000 miles) for the van (10/30) and Toy (10/40), regular 5/30 for the Subaru. Especially on the Subaru, I never had anything before this that ran with the oil so hot..
John

[fred heath]

I wouldn't start using a synthetic in an old engine that's used to regular oil.

But you can use whatever oil you want. I'd say most people around here just use regular oil. But yeah, technically because of the motorhome, you're never really driving under "light duty" conditions.

The only issue with synthetics is that they work really well to clean out gunk. In an old engine, a lot of what is keeping the seals from leaking is built up gunk. You clean that out with synthetic oil, and suddenly you've got some oil leaks...

At least that's the theory.

The rebuilt engine on my old 83 pickup leaked a tiny bit from the start out of the timing cover and oil pan. It leaked a lot worse with synthetic...

I'd say use whatever oil you like, though. Everyone has an opinion...

I disagree. If your depending on old gunk to hold your engine together you have some serious problems.

I changed all my oils. Engine, transmission, and rear differential all use synthetic. My engine is a 1978 and runs excellent. I've used it for over 2 years and 25K miles.

There is a big debate among some members of this forum over using synthetic vs. regular lubricants. My observations are not based on theory or statistics, but on actual driving performance.

I would never switch back to conventional lubricants. Just my opinion.

[Derek up North]

There is a big debate among some members of this forum over using synthetic vs. regular lubricants.

My observations are not based on theory or statistics, but on actual driving performance.

We're just 'amateurs. There are web sites and Forums dedicated to this argument.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I like theories that can be proven with statistics. Of course statistics have been known to b used to support any theory you might want to support.

[fred heath]

We're just 'amateurs. There are web sites and Forums dedicated to this argument.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I like theories that can be proven with statistics. Of course statistics have been known to b used to support any theory you might want to support.

I agree with you Derek.

My observations are based on actual road trips I've done. When I travel from NC to NH I usually average 600-700 miles nonstop per day. (10-12) hours of steady driving 55-60 mph.

I've never had any issues with overheating or poor performance. In a 35 year old motor that's pretty impressive in my book. Would conventional oil do the same? Maybe, but why take a chance for a few bucks.

[MontanaChinook]

The consensus seems to be: synthetic oils don't cause leaks. But they can expose leaks. As in if your seals aren't in good shape, what may not have leaked with conventional oil may leak with synthetic.

Which accounts for different peoples experiences with switching. If your seals were in good shape, you'll do fine. If they aren't...you're about to find that out!

Personally, if I bought an old vehicle and didn't know the service history, I would not switch to synthetic.

I agree, keeping a vehicle well maintained is much better than allowing "false seals" aka sludge buildup preventing leaks. But if you get the vehicle after this has already been decided for you? It's something of a gamble to switch to synthetic.

[MontanaChinook]

My engine is 35 years old and has never even threatened to overheat, and I get great gas mileage. I use conventional. So my logic and yours are exactly the same, with opposite conclusions.

So a study is what I'll believe, rather than personal anecdotes.

[fred heath]

My engine is 35 years old and has never even threatened to overheat, and I get great gas mileage. I use conventional. So my logic and yours are exactly the same, with opposite conclusions.

So a study is what I'll believe, rather than personal anecdotes.

10 to 12 hours of consistent highway driving does not in my book constitute an "anecdote". I guess if your doing short trips you may be fine with conventional lubricants.

It's a personal choice. Everyone who reads this thread will come to their own conclusion.

With the exception of a few hours of sleep I continued the trip, an additional 800 miles. Again, 55-60 mph nonstop. (except for gas).

[MontanaChinook]

An anecdote is your personal experience, with your personal vehicle, rather than a study with many engines, under controlled conditions. My anecdotes are no better than yours.

I recently took a 1,700 mile road trip with conventional. That, and all my summer trips this year are my experience. Great gas mileage, no overheating. Along with tens of thousands of other Americans out on the road all day with conventional oil, running into zero problems. My past trucks I drove every day, and averaged 15-20,000 miles a year. All conventional oil, all great service. Still just 4-5 vehicles, under completely uncontrolled conditions. Just anecdotes.

Exactly. Unless someone does a study, everyone comes to their own conclusion based on the tiny little window they have on the problem: Their own extremely limited experience.

One man goes for a walk 5 days a week, on the same route, and never sees a car accident. His conclusion: there are no car accidents on the route he walks, ever.

So maybe your seals were good, but synthetic would make mine leak. Maybe synthetic will never make any seals leak. As long as you are one person, with one well maintained vehicle, how can we come to any conclusion, based on that insignificant sample?

I agree that personal experience counts for more than words on the Internet. But actual studies with large samples count for more than individual experiences.

[Derek up North]

Here's another 'anecdote'.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/16945-synthetic-oil-change-now-all-seals-leaking.html

[fred heath]

Both arguments are on the table, and discussed to death.

Readers will make their own choices.

Whatever they feel will work best for them.

[Maineah]

One of the biggest issues to me is the fact that syn oils are not. There are no more then 3 real synthetic oils out of the dozens that say they are but they are just blends the biggest offender is MobileOne and the public seems to buy into it. It is expensive and 90% of the drivers on the road do not need it. In order for a synthetic oil to be cost effective it would have to run 10,000 miles. There is zero proof that syn.oil makes engines last longer or improves mileage.

[fred heath]

http://www.ehow.com/m/facts_6317036_synthetic-oil-better_.html

[Derek up North]

Ehow isn't the sort of 'Source' I normally quote, but since you did:

Fun Facts

• "Full Synthetic" oil only contains about 5 to 8 percent of actual synthetic base stock; the rest is machine-grade mineral oil. A quart of truly synthetic oil like Pennzane would run you about $400, which is why it's only used in aerospace and precision machine applications.

[fred heath]

<p>

Ehow isn't the sort of 'Source' I normally quote, but since you did:

Fun Facts

• "Full Synthetic" oil only contains about 5 to 8 percent of actual synthetic base stock; the rest is machine-grade mineral oil. A quart of truly synthetic oil like Pennzane would run you about $400, which is why it's only used in aerospace and precision machine applications.

Derek,

That paragraph is out of context. If doing a quote, present all the information, particularly the paragraphs proceeding your quote.

Additionally, I'm not defending the chemical composition of "Synthetic Oil". Only the results I've noticed since I started using it about 5 years ago.

[Derek up North]

I don't see it being out of context. The paragraphs preceding the 'stand alone' Fun Fact can be read by anyone who clicked on your link, as I did.

[fred heath]

I don't see it being out of context. The paragraphs preceding the 'stand alone' Fun Fact can be read by anyone who clicked on your link, as I did.

◦Because synthetic oil is "slipperier" (has better lubricity) than conventional oil, you can use a lighter weight oil that decreases internal engine resistance (parasitic drag). Reduced parasitic drag equals more horsepower, torque and better fuel economy.

You mean like this?

Its easy to pull out the excerpts one wants to highlight.

[linda s]

Well Fred you've convinced me. Next oil change I will give synth stuff a try. Is there a certain filter I should use with this stuff?

Linda S

[WME]

Synth info. http://www.synthetic-oil-technology.info/

Yes its sponsored by Amsoil, but the information is valid and shows that there is "pure Synth" available at reasonable costs.

[Maineah]

My diesel VW required syn. oil it also required 10,000 mile services not 5,000 because any thing less would not be worth while the reasoning was to suspend the diesel combustion products. It also was turbo charged and needed to have either 0-40 or 5-40 weight oil to lube the turbo on cold starts mind you the turbo not the engine it's self it did not need that requirement. My infinitely more complex 4 liter V6 24 valve variable valve timing 4 cam Tacoma engine recommends dino 10-30 oil and 5,000 miles changes go figure.A lot of things can happen to things especially older toy homes by extending the service times it is a really good ideal to have a look underneath every so often.I my case the MH oil was changed every spring I never drove it over about 2500 to 3000 miles so disposing of the used oil at twice the price before it's time made no sense. Like many things in life if you believe it works it does.

[fred heath]

Well Fred you've convinced me. Next oil change I will give synth stuff a try. Is there a certain filter I should use with this stuff?

Linda S

Linda,

Use the same filter you've always used.

I love this stuff. It works really well in old engines.

In one 7 day period I logged on over 3200 miles. Engine ran great.

[MontanaChinook]

As they have for decades with conventional. ^

This discussion is getting scattered.

Summary:

1. Fred's link shows that a TRUE synthetic has all the benefits mentioned, but most synthetic oils are only 8%, at most, synthetic. The other 90% is conventional oil.

2. If you ask someone who runs conventional oil, they'll tell you that over hundreds of thousands of miles, it performed great.

3. See #2 but substitute synthetic for conventional

4. Most links I found agree that while synthetic will not break down old seals and cause leaks, it may expose old crappy seals, and though they weren't leaking with conventional, they'll start leaking with synthetic.

So it comes down to...will spending more money give me piece of mind? Because both synthetic and conventional oil users have the same results. The 200,000+ mile Toyotas of legend were run on conventional oil. So if you've got the money and will feel good knowing you're getting even better protection, go for it. But you likely will not see an actual difference.

Personally I use synthetic in my gear boxes. That's something you only need to change every 30,000 miles or so, and so it seems worth it there. But not my engine.

But I personally don't see that anyone has made a convincing argument one way or the other. Other than "if you got money to play around with, play around with it however you like"

[linda s]

Well I'm not trying to prove any point, I'm just curious. I've been driving my Toyota a very long time now and know it very well. I would like to see if synth makes any change in the mileage or anything. Inquiring minds want to know

Linda S

[fred heath]

As they have for decades with conventional. ^

This discussion is getting scattered.

Summary:

1. Fred's link shows that a TRUE synthetic has all the benefits mentioned, but most synthetic oils are only 8%, at most, synthetic. The other 90% is conventional oil.

2. If you ask someone who runs conventional oil, they'll tell you that over hundreds of thousands of miles, it performed great.

3. See #2 but substitute synthetic for conventional

4. Most links I found agree that while synthetic will not break down old seals and cause leaks, it may expose old crappy seals, and though they weren't leaking with conventional, they'll start leaking with synthetic.

So it comes down to...will spending more money give me piece of mind? Because both synthetic and conventional oil users have the same results. The 200,000+ mile Toyotas of legend were run on conventional oil. So if you've got the money and will feel good knowing you're getting even better protection, go for it. But you likely will not see an actual difference.

Personally I use synthetic in my gear boxes. That's something you only need to change every 30,000 miles or so, and so it seems worth it there. But not my engine.

But I personally don't see that anyone has made a convincing argument one way or the other. Other than "if you got money to play around with, play around with it however you like"

The naysayers always seem to be the people who have never used the product. Having used both under varying conditions, there's no way I would go back to conventional oil.

In fact, I have yet to meet anyone that's made the switch over to synthetic that wants to return to regular oil.

I noticed you have no problem using it for your drivetrain components due to the fact you don't have to change it often.

Could it be your reason is more of a "financial nature" than product performance?

Any extra protection I can gain for my toy, I'm happy to try. My transmission and rear axle are also running synthetic lubes.

WalMart: 5 qt. jug Mobil-1 $24.98

5 qt jug Pennzoil conventional motor oil $17.27.

So synthetic costs an extra $8.00. I don't view that as wasting money.

[MontanaChinook]

Well I haven't come out on one side or the other, if you'll notice.

What I'm debating is the reasoning behind switching.

Seems that your reasoning is "I drive a lot and my vehicles do great". Therefore, they do great BECAUSE of synthetic. I'm saying, how do you know? How do you know they wouldn't be doing just as well with conventional?

There is no proof, only your opinion.

"Whenever I tap my head three times, then turn my key, my truck always starts. Therefore, tapping my head three times makes sure my truck will start". Yeah...or maybe it would always start, no matter what.

My opinion is, I just don't know. When I changed my transmission and differential oils, I figured I wouldn't be back in there for YEARS. So I'll shell out the extra money, just in case. With my engine...My 86 went 240,000 on conventional, and it died because of the coolant dumping into the oil, not bad bearings. So I'll save some money (I don't shop at Walmart) and use conventional. Plus I don't know what shape my engine seals are in, and I don't want leaks.

And it seems Mobile 1 is a bit suspect as far as it's ingredients, and is definitely not a true synthetic. Worth paying more for? Not for me.

I sure wish we had left this thread at:

"Both arguments are on the table, and discussed to death.

Readers will make their own choices.

Whatever they feel will work best for them. "

[ipo]

Thanks to all for their opinions and thoughts etc. There seems to be no right or wrong answer and will ultimately come down to the choice of the owner. For me, that choice remains to be seen!

[stamar]

ya wow the only people ive really ever heard that think synthetic isnt a benefit are......

almost no one really but the group is made of a very small group of people who actually have no personal experience at all to draw on, and even they are drawing on opinions from cars made in the 70s ( ie really old people lost on where they are)

at this point a smart shopper can find synthetic for cheap and its mostly a waste of money not to use it.

Ive had the best personal experience with sythetic atf for toyota trucks. ive bought vehicles the previous owner thought were shot and brought their transmissions back to perfect using dexron 6.

I am actually totally uninterested in opinions on it. Someones opinon on something that is a fluid readily available for testing are irrelevant.

youve got millions of personal toyota truck owners who do have experience telling you to use synthetics.

they dont have to make 10000 miles to be cheaper they have to make like 6000 miles and as far as engine oil.

walmart is definitely the place to hit up for auto maintenance though. If you dont have access you may have a different economic algorhythm confusing you however its still better for your toyota or nissan 80s era truck.

[stamar]

i dont know about what full synthetic and part synthetic, which are better for toyota trucks . bob is the oil guy has tons of research available for people who need to know or even have a reason they need to know.

the last time i bothered to read about it, it claimed many grades of mobil 1 are full synthetic , by a definition of full synthetic that includes many products for sale in stores. but the most common grades, ie 5-30 and 10-30 are actually sythetic blends. and people are angry because mobil one is selling two different products with the same branding.

where as castrol i believe sells its faux full sythetic now as syntec but its real stuff as edge. or something along those lines please no one bother to correct that i dont care.

because a 80s level toyota truck was not designed with the kind of tolarances that can keep oil clean for 10k miles, any kind of oil, its not a good investment to buy amsoil even if it is better that mobil one. somewhere in the dollar to benefit amount you can hit the crapper either way.

I think clean oil is way better than dirty oil as far as the engine. when you get a fluid that you change RARELY like differential or trans fluid on a motorhome that goes 2k a year for most people, SYNTHETIC is the wise est investment almost regardless of cost as it will protect better and not get polluted likely for your lifetime.

[fred heath]

I use the Mobil-1 10-40 high mileage in my crankcase.

I really notice the difference when the temps drop below freezing. The viscosity stays more liquid allowing the engine to rotate faster, which means easier starting. Conventional oil seems to "gel up" when it gets really cold.