MontanaChinook Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I didn't see any leak before, but after switching to Toyota Red anti-freeze, and replacing the radiator, thermostat, water pump and hoses, I noticed some dried coolant on the drivers side of the engine, just below where the block meets the head. Under and to the front of the exhaust manifold. Could this be an external headgasket leak? It's not spray from the upper radiator hose, its definitley some antifreeze than ran down the block. But not enough to make it all the way down. Just about 3 or 4" of a trail. I'm sure any leak is something to take care of, but I'm wondering if because its so small, maybe I can just watch it. Anyway, what's the best way to find out what it is? It sure looks like its coming from between the head and block.. Scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 is it a 4 banger? JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 Yes, sorry. 78 20R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 There is a coolant pipe that bolts to the timing/water pump case it has a paper gasket right about there behind the alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Ok. I meant to look at little closer tonight but got sidetracked. I'll check it out...when I find time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 NFG, looks like a head gasket leak. OK deep breath, its broke, you ain't gonna hurt it. Things to do before removing the head to replace the gasket. 1. Retorque the head. 2. Barr's Stop leak Clean off the block and watch. P.S. Cross your fingers, make sure you have a chicken ready for the next full moon....;-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Ok. Been meaning to do a valve adjustment anyways so I'll retorque the head bolts while I'm in there.Don't like the idea of additives...Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Way back when, I had a cousin who was the Engineer Officer aboard the USS Nautilus. Some where there was a tiny persistent leak in the cooling lines. In went a drum of Barr's and the leak stopped. I used it several times as a last resort on small leaks and have had good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Maybe I'll look more into that chicken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I think your screwed. :-(Other items to consider if your in to it this far, Timing chain and guides front crank seal oil pump o-rings water pump Valve job, maybe. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yeah if I do it I'm doing the timing chain, too. Water and oil pump are brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Pretty sure it's a double roller chain the guides and the chains outlasted the engines The single roller ones were the problem child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Yep, definitely a double chain. But I figure it would be silly to take off the head and NOT do the chain while I'm in there. This is one of those jobs...it's doable for me but its a little outside my comfort range. I'll need to find someone a little more experienced to help me. Its fairly cheap for the parts. But to have a shop do the job...I figure has to be getting to around $1,000 or more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Getting off good for $1,000 if doing the head gasket and chain. I was quoted $900 for the head gasket and $1700 for the chain. Dealership type quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Doing the chain will easily double the labor+ parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Why? You basically all but do the timing chain when you replace the headgasket. The only difference is theyre putting a new one back on instead of the old one. That's like charging to take off a transmission, then charging again to take off the transfer case...they come off together! Anyway...just in case I'm not up for it, I asked my shop for a quote. So we'll see what they come back with. This would actually be a fun job with someone who had more experience helping. On my own...a bit more frustrating, and will take twice as much time as I come back to online forums over and over asking silly questions. We'll see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Well if you remove the head that's about it chain, timing case cam drive gear stay right where they are and you just lift the head off. Not so with the chain pretty much start with removing the radiator and work your way towards the chain the entire front of the engine has to come off (pretty much every thing aluminum) properly done it even involves removing the oil pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Yeah...I guess I had it backwards in my head. To do the timing chain correctly requires removing the head. But doing the head correctly only requires taking half the timing chain parts off, and the timing cover stays on. Ether way...we'll see what I get quoted. Probably going to be more than I'm willing to pay either way. The shop said that the head bolts likely have not backed off any and that tightening them further could just as likely make the leak worse, so I'm not going to do that. Surprisingly enough though, they did suggest using some kind of stop leak additive to see if that helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 I wouldn't, your just putting off the inevitable if you can see it leaking it's a pretty good leak and you don't know where else it's going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Yeah. Except I'm planning to take it to Colorado and back the week after next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Your fortunate in some ways. Because your engine is a 1978 the intake and exhaust manifolds can be left in place for head removal. I experienced a similar problem with my engine. I had an overheating issue and couldn't figure where the coolant was going. Top of the radiator dry when hot but overflow full. After new thermostat and radiator cap, still the same problem. Finally did the old drop of crankcase oil onto hot exhaust manifold. Yep, it sizzled instead of just smoked. For a stopgap I added "Bar's block seal". It's pricy at $32.00 from Auto Zone, but seems to be doing the trick. I've ordered the head gasket and will be changing in the near future. It can't hurt to try it. Not sure you would want to go long distance with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Well, we'll see what happens. I think I'm going to chance it. Not willing to pay the shop, and there's no way I'm getting a headgasket done by myself before Friday. Just not sure, on this double row timing chain, if I should just go ahead and replace it while I'm in there, or just do the headgasket? I guess ill have to check it out while im in there, and if it needs it, order parts then. just means no camping in it for a longer period. I pretty much decided this morning I'll hope for the best this next week, then, if I don't end up broken down somewhere between here and Colorado, I'll do the job myself sometime before it snows. Otherwise I'll just have a very expensive towing-plus-shop repairs somewhere out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunrading Arkansas Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 That "magic cure-in-a-bottle" stuff is a big no-no in my opinion - can cause all kinds of headaches later down the road. Doing a head gasket is a PITA, but if the head isn't warped (which obviously if you drive it and it over-heats is very likely) it's a relatively cheap fix. If you're considering de-smog at all, it would be a much easier job while the head is off too. And timing chain, valves, waterpump, etc. Not fun, but very educational if you decide to tackle it yourself. Best of luck either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Pull the valve cover and turn the engine slightly backwards this will make the chain as slack as it gets and you can see how much slack there is in the chain there is going to be some because the tensioner is actuated by oil pressure if it is flopping around like a fish you may want to think about it. Frankly I have never seen a double roller chain fail done many single roller chains that have beat the case to death. Some thing to think about with the sealers is only do it once or you'll end up with a plugged up heater core and possibly even radiator tubes if the first dose does not stop it, the second won't either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Maybe a good idea to at least buy and carry with you the parts and tools needed to change the head gasket if it gets worse while you're on the road. You just might get lucky and find someone who would do it for you if only ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Back from the trip and it made it just fine, luckily. Leak hasn't gotten any worse, either. At least not externally... It's been getting harder to start lately, first thing in the morning, and running rough till it warms up, which could be the headgasket. But it also could be running rich, or burning oil. I didn't need to add any oil or coolant over a 2,000 mile trip, though, so that's good. I'll be doing the headgasket during the next couple weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 22, 2013 Author Share Posted September 22, 2013 Yep, it's proving to be a solid road trip vehicle. Capable of cross country travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Google Toyota AAP, for info starting problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Actually since I had some black smoke at start-up (rich mixture) I replaced that gasket before my trip... Unfortunately didn't seem to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I don't understand how you can drive 2000 miles and lose no oil or coolant and have a head gasket leak. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 You saw the photos. With hard driving, a little trickle runs down the side of the block. So I can't say I didn't lose any...I can only say that after checking the levels, there was no noticeable drop, and no need to add any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.