Weak alternator?

[86rader]

1990 Odyssey, V-6. Have a solid state isolator for house battery.

Bought this rig 2 years ago. When i bought it, the alternator had recently been replaced. Unfortunately, it looks to be an autozone reman unit aka POS!!!! Found out about cheapo alternators on a trip out west in the Sunrader a few years back.

Anyhoo, when I bought it, I had an intermittent ALT light which usually went away with a few revs. So, I pulled the alternator apart to inspect it.

I don't think the bench reman dude in Mexico is familiar with solder flux. Yikes, what horrific cold solder joints.

So, I resoldered the brush leads and slapped it all back together and reinstalled.

Now on start up, the ALT light stays on. A quick blip of the throttle extinguishes the light. I cleaned up the chassis ground connection and connections at the isolator switch. I even disconnected the coach lead to eliminate that load.

Still, I have the same symptoms. So, I got out the digital voltmeter to get a better idea of what is going on.

Engine off- 12.2VDC

Engine started, idling, ALT light on - 11.9VDC So, the ALT light is not lying. The engine is now running off the battery.

Engine on, throttled blipped - 14.2 VDC This is a good thing. The alternator is now...uhh...alternating. All is well. It seems that once the alternator switches on, it's fine.

So, then I decided to see if the alternator was up to a workout and turned on the headlights and AC, fan going full tilt.

The ALT light stays out, however, the voltage is now heading south fairly quickly. It immediately drops down to about 12.3 and appears to be drifting ever so slowly in the wrong direction. At this time I also detect a bit of a burning smell. Smells like hot alternator belt.

i shut the engine off and sure enough, the belt is getting very warm. It is a 4 rib belt. These ribbed belts generally have awesome grip, better than the old V-belts. IMO, it is plenty tight enough, maybe a half inch of deflection. I suppose I could tighten it a bit more. Funny thing is, the belt is not making any noise. Is it just the old V-belts that talk to you when they slip?

Fortunately, removing the alternator on the V-6 is a lot easier than on the 4. Wish that was the case with other things. i am going to pull it off and bring it to AZ for a test. I don't know if their testing is sophisticated enough to see how much of a load it can handle or if it is simply a voltage output test.

I know some have installed beefier GM alternators on their toys. Anyone here do it with the V-6? I suspect it is probably cheaper than a quality Toyota replacement.

Pete

[Maineah]

Get one from NAPA they offer a life time one for just a bit more as you say they are easy to get off.

[waiter]

If you have an auto electric shop in your area, take it to them. They'll rebuild/test. Sounds a little like a bad diode.

John Mc

88 DOlphin 4 Auto

[Nam]

Well we had a wonderful time with the kids yesterday at the Golden Gate Recreation Area. Upon coming home, I noticed the battery and brake warning light started flashing on-off when turning the signal light. Reving up did not help. But no warning light when signal lights remain off. When I turned off the engine, it did not start again...dead battery

I think the alternator is the one to blame...but:

If the alternator is bad, the battery warning light must remain on ALL the time

....

So I am a little confused.

Where do I begin?

Thanks!

[Nam]

Anyone attempted this yet:

http://www.yotatech.com/f131/gm-cs144-140-amp-alternator-swap-3-0-a-118482/

I personally don't want GM part on Yota but...if it does the trick it does the trick

[Totem]

OMG I have EXTENSIVE alternator experience as well as POS excuse for reman experience from autozone.

Incorrect that the light must remain on all the time to indicate that your alternator is bad. True enough when the light is on it indicates that you are operating below charging levels and when revving if it goes out it only means that the upper bound output functionality of the alternator still works. My experience on this is that once you begin testing with a voltimeter and or see the light being displayed at idle you have a faulty unit that may or may not pass the autozone tester sniff test.

If your reman is still under warranty you can do what I did and just start taking it back and swapping out until you get a good one. Reman 1 was faulty and blew fuses after installation; failed when brought back, reman # two lasted 2 months then slowly began showing the light intermittently and random undervoltage on the dash displays I installed in the 12.x and under range while driving. That one was exceptionally annoying because it would go back to being "normal" with no ryhme nor reason and bench tested good. By reman swap out number three I had wisdom and made them bench test it right off the shelf. Reman # 3 failed right then and there on the tester and sent the desk jockey into excuse mode as there was a line at the counter; I quickly dispatched his lies in front of all telling them it was my 3rd one in 2 months.

I demanded at that point a full refund as the one failed bench test right out of the box and at that point I was given an "upgraded" alternator. what does that mean? I have no clue but it was in a nicer box and had a nicer looking pully and newer looking rebuild area with less varnish and goopy overspray.

Reman # 4 has yet to post anything other than perfect voltage and has made it past the 1 year mark.

That being said I can assure everyone here that I will be getting the Powermaster 41280 when Reman #4 dies. The 41280 puts out 170 Amps, almost triple the current of our stock one. The GM mod wasnt bad either but thats a lot of fab work and potential for damage to pumps etc on a 22RE for my taste. Maybe on the 6 cylinder its not so risky. Let me know if that GM mod works though; if easy, cheap and over 110 amps I'm all in.

[Nam]

Totem, sorry to hear you have so much issue with remanufactured alternator. Just to clarify, mine is still OEM...not been replaced yet. I haven't got the chance to get the meter to check for voltage but you may be correct when there is no battery light, does not mean the alternator is good. I may pump out enought voltage to make the warning light circuit happy but not enough current to do anything especially when sign lights are turned on.

I don't think I would got the GM way...even just the look of it making me...unpleasant...

Let me check out the Powermaster 41280...do they make one for V6?

[Totem]

unsure on the v6 question. I specked the 41280 out for the 22re. Very well maybe be the guy for the v6. Its a straight swap out for the 22-re.

[Skydancer2992]

When my alternator was starting to go bad, the GEN light would light up at low idle speed, particularly for a few minutes after startup.

I bought a surplus unit off of Ebay for about $30 and it has served me for the past two years.

It's kind of nice to have a spare core, esp if I need to take one to an electrical shop for rewiring. Most likely all they need to do is replace a couple of carbon brushes and it will be good to go.

THat being said. The GEN light indicates low voltage, the cause might just as easily be a bad battery that is drawing the voltage down. Make sure water levels are OK. Charge the battery and see if it gives you about 12.5 Volts.

With the engine running, a good generator should give you around 14 Volts.

[5Toyota]

napa is for shure a much better company no body on here seems to mention bosch there are a few independt auto pop and mom part stores where i live that sell bosch reman alternators and starters i have aways had good results with bosch stuff on toyota or datsun. a lot of that sold by the defunk als auto supply was junk also . i use napa , or bosch products . or carquest. AND yes some old time local rebuild shops known for good work

[5Toyota]

have had at least one als now out of busness FAKE A ALTURNATER TEST with a unit i new to be good saying it had no out put the guy pretended to hook the leads up he heald them real close but i saw they were not really on said no output want another one today i said no thanks i took the unit to a good shop man said you did a good job of rebulding it putting out great

[5Toyota]

HAVE ALSO SEEN CASES WHERE THE LIGHT NEVER CAME ON BUT THE ALTERNATER ONLY PUT OUT A VERY LOW OUTPUT just enough to turn the light off but not enough to keep the battery up

[Totem]

5 toy is correct one of my remans did that. Can't wait to get the power master alt. 170 amps over 2k rpm 110 amps idling, it's a generator with those stats, heck I might just have to get a fat inverter and another deep cycle and run AC off the roof with it...

[stamar]

What does it cost what's a direct link?

[Totem]

Stamar i very much doubt you want to see its cost...google Powermaster 41280. the best price i can find is $450. I fancy the idea of finding one in a salvage yard. ithas the same bolt pattern as an 1986-1989 Honda Accord Alternator and so do our 22recs btw... in other words you can use any alternator with that fitment on a 22rec; same exact bolt pattern as our 4 bangers.

[Nam]

This is exactly the case for my 1990 V6. The warning light has not yet come on but the voltage at battery's ternimal engine at idle was only 12.7V, about the same as engine not running.

Time to hit Napa or Carquest...thanks to all you guys, I stear clear of Autozone stuff for this one

Or any high performance aftermarket would you recommend?

HAVE ALSO SEEN CASES WHERE THE LIGHT NEVER CAME ON BUT THE ALTERNATOR ONLY PUT OUT A VERY LOW OUTPUT just enough to turn the light off but not enough to keep the battery up

[Nam]

I've been talking to Powermaster...asking availability of high amp alternator for V6...he said he may have one but he's checking...so far he has not gotten back to me yet. I am wondering if the one for 22RE would fit the 3VZE. Can't be that much differenct...I would think

[Nam]

That inverter has to be obease...way beyond fat in order to run the roof top AC. The last guy I know tried 5KW inverter could not start 9200btu roof top air...

5 toy is correct one of my remans did that. Can't wait to get the power master alt. 170 amps over 2k rpm 110 amps idling, it's a generator with those stats, heck I might just have to get a fat inverter and another deep cycle and run AC off the roof with it...

[Totem]

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/wagan_10000.html

yep she's a Toad alright. Coleman running usage is 1900 watts; would take a 2100 watt draw which would require 175 amps current to offset usage .

Even on a HOT day assuming a 7 times start up requirement of 13300 that inverter should be able to do it.

Figure the car would be using 30 amps output. That would make 140 amps available to input of the bank;

load would be pulling 175 with a deficit of 35 amps.

1900 watts per hour used 1680 produced; the battery bank would be negative at 220 watts per hour.

Adding a nice 220 watt solar cell roof could finish the deficit close enough to make a 6 hour drive in theory right fellas?

(ehehe I'm gonna step away now and let the more "experienced" electrical guys tell me the stats on two deep cycle marine batteries in this scenerio..

on 2 Group 27M's (105 Ah at 20) 180 minute RC

how long could the AC be run before killing batteries?

without solar panel (220 watt adhesive panel) ?

with?

[Nam]

Cost wise, a gen set would be more effective...but conceptual wise Battery/Inverter would work.

Crazy thought: since the Propane fridge can freeze water, why not have a fan blow thru that evaporator so cool air will come out of the other side?

Anyone wants to try this as a proof of concept?

[straygoose]

Stamar i very much doubt you want to see its cost...google Powermaster 41280. the best price i can find is $450. I fancy the idea of finding one in a salvage yard. ithas the same bolt pattern as an 1986-1989 Honda Accord Alternator and so do our 22recs btw... in other words you can use any alternator with that fitment on a 22rec; same exact bolt pattern as our 4 bangers.

170a? Man, that thing does have the juice to power a rooftop. $450 isn't cheap, with power like that if it's a reliable alt, it may be worth it.

Now, just how difficult is the swap out on the 22re? I'm gonna go look at mine inna minute.

[Totem]

fridges like dometics or Norcools have fins that are cooled by amonia evaporation and don't cool like a compressed fridge/ AC. they wouldn't have the cooling capacity to cool the RV. You have made me think about putting a TEG power module on the propane heater portion of the fridge to reclaim some extra electricity back to the battery array though

[Totem]

170a? Man, that thing does have the juice to power a rooftop. $450 isn't cheap, with power like that if it's a reliable alt, it may be worth it.

Now, just how difficult is the swap out on the 22re? I'm gonna go look at mine inna minute.

I can change the alternator in mine in under 10 minutes... I'm not proud of it I've just done it THAT many times. Thank you Autozone for making me a poophouzse mech.

[stamar]

Cost wise it depends on how many miles you drive.

If you are sitting a generator saves money but if you're going somewhere it is next to free.

Now honestly, this purpose, air conditioning is largely something you do sitting. Even the double size alternator is going to cost a lot more than a generator even the least gas effecient one.

I've got to say though that the useless roof ac is one thing you should get a generator for.

Especially if you're running it 12 hrs a day for weeks etc.

If you can upgrade or downgrade to a window ac 5000 btu and can start it off with the cab ac you can run it off batteries.

Even an entirely solar rv or boat with 700 watt in panels and 6 batteries cannot run a ac like that all day. If you need a huge ac, but only for an hour a day it can work but that's the opposite of reality. That ac is meant to be plugged in, and secondarily a generator runs it in emergency.

The cost of running your engine all day to keep your rv cool will reach above the cost for a hotel room pretty fast.

[centralman]

I did the modification with the kit from trail gear.

http://www.trail-gear.com/pdf/120120-1-k.pdf

I have been using an 7294SE alternator for the past 2 years, all is well. The only problem is the charge warning light and the brake warning light comes on (albeit not in normal brightness, it was slightly dim), other than that it's good.

[stamar]

I wanted to direct link this 120 amp alternator with no core fee 103$

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=180718768805&index=0&nav=SEARCH&nid=48004273285

As much more cost effective. Now I do believe somewhere in this thread they listed it as having lower than that in reality. Some link from another forum. However the cost involved has to count for something

I have all my plans built around this alternator and wouldn't consider buying one for 450

Now it may be just me but everytime running that roof ac comes up it seems like the most useless peice of crap invented.

Even at ideal effeciency using reliable expensive generators its going to burn through one or two a year if you're in aarizona. Its a pile of crap it really is for land lines only imo. Nothing to do with me.

Its an extremely exppensive set up for a week in burning man or something. As stated that is a 2500 watt ac unit. You are looking at 2500 watts in solar panels to get a start to keep u with the hourly loss. The cost of even running them on a 4000watt generator on gas is no joke either those are a really rv unfriendly device.

[straygoose]

I can change the alternator in mine in under 10 minutes... I'm not proud of it I've just done it THAT many times. Thank you Autozone for making me a poophouzse mech.

Yeah, sorry to hear about that. The parts market is so competitive that the chains (Pep, Autozone, Advance) all sell crap. Napa is good, but you gotta pay for it. Their prices are usually about 30-50% more than the other guys on components. But at least their stuff is reliable, so its worth it.

I went through alt problems with my class B. Went through three in one year. Well, three "official" ones anyway. It was actually more like seven by the time the shop was done with the job.

I took mine into a shop when the original alt started acting up. They ordered one from their supplier, and the guy who was installing it clocked the alt wrong and blew it up. I'm sure most of you know what I mean by "clocking." Anyway, this kid blew up five, count'em FIVE, alts before they finally got an old-timer in that knew how to dial in an alt that wasn't configured right out of the box.

Of course that wasn't the end of the problem. A few months later the alt stopped charging and I had a dead battery. I started fiddling around with it and as soon as I reached in back of the alt, I felt the pos. post and it practically came out of the alt and right into my hand. The post was broken and likely it had been operating that way since installation.

What a nightmare. First, it took two days to do a two hour job, then that two-day job was screwed up. Needless to say, they did all the fix-up work for free, and even threw in an oil change and a minor tune-up on the house, but damn, they sucked. I never returned there again.

Funny thing is they have a huge positive rep in their area. Makes me wonder about how little people actually expect from the people they pay to do work for them.

[Vanman]

yep she's a Toad alright. Coleman running usage is 1900 watts; would take a 2100 watt draw which would require 175 amps current to offset usage .

Even on a HOT day assuming a 7 times start up requirement of 13300 that inverter should be able to do it.

Figure the car would be using 30 amps output. That would make 140 amps available to input of the bank;

load would be pulling 175 with a deficit of 35 amps.

1900 watts per hour used 1680 produced; the battery bank would be negative at 220 watts per hour.

Adding a nice 220 watt solar cell roof could finish the deficit close enough to make a 6 hour drive in theory right fellas?

(ehehe I'm gonna step away now and let the more "experienced" electrical guys tell me the stats on two deep cycle marine batteries in this scenerio..

on 2 Group 27M's (105 Ah at 20) 180 minute RC

how long could the AC be run before killing batteries?

without solar panel (220 watt adhesive panel) ?

with?

Don't forget about up-sizing the wiring, that's a lotta AMPS

vanman

[straygoose]

yep she's a Toad alright. Coleman running usage is 1900 watts; would take a 2100 watt draw which would require 175 amps current to offset usage .

Even on a HOT day assuming a 7 times start up requirement of 13300 that inverter should be able to do it.

Figure the car would be using 30 amps output. That would make 140 amps available to input of the bank;

load would be pulling 175 with a deficit of 35 amps.

1900 watts per hour used 1680 produced; the battery bank would be negative at 220 watts per hour.

Adding a nice 220 watt solar cell roof could finish the deficit close enough to make a 6 hour drive in theory right fellas?

(ehehe I'm gonna step away now and let the more "experienced" electrical guys tell me the stats on two deep cycle marine batteries in this scenerio..

on 2 Group 27M's (105 Ah at 20) 180 minute RC

how long could the AC be run before killing batteries?

without solar panel (220 watt adhesive panel) ?

with?

Don't forget about up-sizing the wiring, that's a lotta AMPS

vanman

So, the real answer is, get the big alt, toss the 13,500 BTU AC and replace it with the 8,000 BTU, or a window unit?

That way you avoid laying out several hundred more on solar panels. You could probably find someone to swap ACs, so that cost might be minimal.

[Maineah]

Big MH some years ago tried to run an A/C with batteries and gave up even four 225 amp golf cart batteries could not keep up and that's 240+ pounds of batteries!

[straygoose]

Big MH some years ago tried to run an A/C with batteries and gave up even four 225 amp golf cart batteries could not keep up and that's 240+ pounds of batteries!

I learned the something similar with trying to run the fridge on 12v. It killed the battery, and I mean killed it dead, as in I had to get a new one. I never tried that again. Propane, even at $3.50 is cheap enough to use all the time, unless of course you can plug in to a shore line.

That 12v selector on the fridge must be the most useless thing on a MH.

[Totem]

I'm with Maineah on this alas, I couldn't get a 700 watt Porto ACunit to start off a 1200 watt inverter before I got my rooftop unit. For the expense weight etc I think I will just go with that small 3000 watt diesel genset I found.

[Totem]

12 volt on fridge is for engine running only.

[straygoose]

I'm with Maineah on this alas, I couldn't get a 700 watt Porto ACunit to start off a 1200 watt inverter before I got my rooftop unit. For the expense weight etc I think I will just go with that small 3000 watt diesel genset I found.

Isn't carrying around two different fuels kind of a PITA though? I would be worried about not thinking and putting regular in the diesel can.

[Totem]

Diesel engines can run on many things like peanut oil etc... I like the duro power digital diesel for this reason. At $699 and 3000 watts it fills a duel purpose of hedging my bet in shortage situations. You aren't hearing about people squabbling over vegetable oil in Jersey/NYC right now. It also isn't explosive so I can run it while driving.