SwinGenX Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) I started a thread in the general section about my pending purchase. New Owner "New" addition to manufacturer list? At this point I am looking for some help to definitively confirm that this rig has the recalled 5 lug. I took the following picture. Any information appreciated. Thanks! Edited October 17, 2011 by SwinGenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinite no longer here Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 That is definitely the old type, 5 lug, half-ton axle. It hasn't been updated to the safer one ton, full floating axle. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 The photo yo have is a 5 bolt 1/2 ton axle. its not a full floating rear axle. I couldn't find any of my photos that show a good view of the rear axle. However, check out this thread, I have photos of the rear axle taken apart to inspect brakes and repack bearings. Rear Brake Inspection John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinGenX Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 I was hoping that I had stumbled upon the rare "beefed up" 5 lug referenced in the axle FAQ. I will be checking in with my local auto salvage tomorrow and will go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yes you have the 5 lug axle but you do not seem to have the same wheels that came with the dangerous axle I see an adapter and a wheel that looks to have a different offset than the conventional bolt togther duallies. Huntsman used this same format in 1985 and was not recalled for that year. The described heavy duty 5 lug to my knowledge has never been seen by anyone but maybe they miss described it and this is what they were talking about. Love to see that wheel in pieces LS I started a thread in the general section about my pending purchase. New Owner "New" addition to manufacturer list? At this point I am looking for some help to definitively confirm that this rig has the recalled 5 lug. I took the following picture. Any information appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Ihave same outer bolt pattern on my minimax 1978 bolted rims but my rims look totly differant my rims are very unusial bolt on same patern but look not at all like yours the Les Shaeb guy said he had no idea what myn where they almost look like tractor rims soory no pict On myn they bolt on to the standerd 5 lug toyota rim i would say you do have the old 5 lug axle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85mirage Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I have same axle/rims on my 85mirage. I believe it is beefed up. My mirage is lighter than most rv's with limited amenities. I have traveled over 60k visiting all lower 49 states with bad axle and have no plans to replace. No one will agree with me but thats fine with me as i'm driving. Just thought i'd give you my 2 cents. I have pict of axle in photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinGenX Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) I added a few more pictures of the rear view of the axle housing. In instances of failure, is it clear what the weak point is? Is it the axle, the axle housing, or a combination thereof? I ultimately plan to replace, but it would be nice for me to understand if this is a recalled axle or not. I don't expect I will have much opportunity to tear into this before winter, but I will certainly look for some part numbers. Does anyone know the part number of the 5 lug axle that was not recalled? Thanks, James Edited October 17, 2011 by SwinGenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 when they break, the rear axle severs before the brake hub assembly leaving you literally with little to no stopping power... if you are in ohio this wouldnt be so scarey... if you are in Colorado or the Appalachians or California coast... DEATH has been documented of the driver and passengers. Do yourself a favor, replace the axle with a junk yard one. it shouldnt be bad to find, I know a new guy to the forum that just scored a brande new one from the recall for $800 with all hardware. I myself paid about $3k for a used one with 6 rims installed delivered out the door done. (and hate myself for it but know its good cause I had my shock mounts custom fabricated and added Bilsteins in the same cost; my rear end can take anything i throw at it now. small price to pay for keeping everyone breathing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinGenX Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 when they break, the rear axle severs before the brake hub assembly leaving you literally with little to no stopping power... if you are in ohio this wouldnt be so scarey... if you are in Colorado or the Appalachians or California coast... DEATH has been documented of the driver and passengers. Do yourself a favor, replace the axle with a junk yard one. it shouldnt be bad to find, I know a new guy to the forum that just scored a brande new one from the recall for $800 with all hardware. I myself paid about $3k for a used one with 6 rims installed delivered out the door done. (and hate myself for it but know its good cause I had my shock mounts custom fabricated and added Bilsteins in the same cost; my rear end can take anything i throw at it now. small price to pay for keeping everyone breathing. At this point I have secured a six lug from a local salvage yard. I have asked for all hardware including wheels, tires, housing, and springs. For me, the five lug is now just a matter of curiosity. I would really like to put the mystery of the non-recalled five lug to rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Don't think that is going to happen. Extensive talks on the Toyota-campers site have failed to resolve the issue. I do believe it wasn't the axle that changed instead a better wheel set up like you have. The extreme offset of the fake duallies put so much stress on the bearings they eventually failed and that is what broke the axle. The fake duallies are mentoned repeatedly in the recall notices. That is why I asked to see your wheels in more detail. See where the weight center is in relation to the bearings. No matter what you will be safer with the full floater. Love to see what your rig looks like too. Post some pics of this before unknown rig please LS At this point I have secured a six lug from a local salvage yard. I have asked for all hardware including wheels, tires, housing, and springs. For me, the five lug is now just a matter of curiosity. I would really like to put the mystery of the non-recalled five lug to rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwinGenX Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Don't think that is going to happen. Extensive talks on the Toyota-campers site have failed to resolve the issue. I do believe it wasn't the axle that changed instead a better wheel set up like you have. The extreme offset of the fake duallies put so much stress on the bearings they eventually failed and that is what broke the axle. The fake duallies are mentoned repeatedly in the recall notices. That is why I asked to see your wheels in more detail. See where the weight center is in relation to the bearings. No matter what you will be safer with the full floater. Love to see what your rig looks like too. Post some pics of this before unknown rig please LS Bummer, I was really hoping that there might be a part number on the axle that might be identified. Oh well, this topic of debate only adds to the allure. Linda, when I perform the swap out, I will be certain to take some detailed photos of the wheels and axle. That being said, is there anything in particular I should be sure to take with my salvage yard axle? I have asked for just about everything I could think of, but I would love to have a comprehensive list of parts. Also, I have not yet taken possession of the camper. Technically, I will only be taking possession of the title at this time, as my friend has agreed to store it on his property this winter. When I do secure the title, I will be sure to take some good pictures. I expect I will need them for insurance purposes. Thanks again for everyones feedback and comments. Having such a great source of information is one of the reasons I decided to purchase this rig. -James Edited October 19, 2011 by SwinGenX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 the fake duallies weren't the problem it was the lack of secondary bearing. That much weight on one set of bearings == fail. The contact point of the weight still hits the same place; the bearings no matter where the hub is in the assembly. Personally I dont think the type of wheels used would matter.. fake duallies would be better than one wheel on a single bearing set but you still have only one set of bearings. now what I REALLY want to see is the mythical 5 lug full floater rumored to exist. I think its a folk lore story that used RV salesmen tell to buyers to make them have hope that they will be the chosen one; but guess what ; no you are not NEO and the Matrix rules will break the single bearing axle. LOL I heard that Elvis's toy home has the fabled full floating 5 lug axle; but he never leaves his campground in Springfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 not sure where you are, check out new postings might be a solution for you if you are in CA I was hoping that I had stumbled upon the rare "beefed up" 5 lug referenced in the axle FAQ. I will be checking in with my local auto salvage tomorrow and will go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Here's the recall. Clearly states failure was caused by the bending movement of the after market duallies making the bearings fail and breaking the axle. http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/recalls/19697-recall/ Linda S the fake duallies weren't the problem it was the lack of secondary bearing. That much weight on one set of bearings == fail. The contact point of the weight still hits the same place; the bearings no matter where the hub is in the assembly. Personally I dont think the type of wheels used would matter.. fake duallies would be better than one wheel on a single bearing set but you still have only one set of bearings. now what I REALLY want to see is the mythical 5 lug full floater rumored to exist. I think its a folk lore story that used RV salesmen tell to buyers to make them have hope that they will be the chosen one; but guess what ; no you are not NEO and the Matrix rules will break the single bearing axle. LOL I heard that Elvis's toy home has the fabled full floating 5 lug axle; but he never leaves his campground in Springfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Linda, respectfully I disagree. To me it seemed they blamed the wheels because they were not made by toyota( fake duallies) . I will now underscore the arguement referencing Chinook owners whom had recalls without the duallies but on half ton axles with single wheels and or failures on half ton axles with the 6 lug adapters. Your argument implies the owner can get away with adding a 5 to 6 lug adapter and be ok with a pair of dual toyota 6 lug rims. We all know that is fatally flawed logic (pun intended). Do you disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 What Chinook owners. I have no knowledge of a Chinook axle recall and have been unable to find one. Chinooks have single wheels and are under the GVWR of the trucks they are on. Have never heard of an axle failure there other that axles can fail for other reasons. Like being 30 years old and maybe rusted out. No I am not calling the make shift wheel fix the answer. Of course the full floater is the best case scenario but on lighter vehicles like the Sunrader shorty or Mirage a single wheel might be the better answer if you don't have a grand or more to upgrade. The later 4x4 Odyssey's have the standard truck axle with single wheels and I have never heard of a failure. Granted the axle in the v6's is a slightly heavier duty axle but still not a 1 ton or a full floater. LS ps, They blamed it on the wheels because they were an intrinsic part of the failure. The wheel changes made on the Huntsman in 85 proved that by not being part of the recall. Recall happened in 92 so they had plenty of time to include it if it was warranted Linda, respectfully I disagree. To me it seemed they blamed the wheels because they were not made by toyota( fake duallies) . I will now underscore the arguement referencing Chinook owners whom had recalls without the duallies but on half ton axles with single wheels and or failures on half ton axles with the 6 lug adapters. Your argument implies the owner can get away with adding a 5 to 6 lug adapter and be ok with a pair of dual toyota 6 lug rims. We all know that is fatally flawed logic (pun intended). Do you disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 hmm my mistake on the chinook quite correct...still for the others I dont think they were blaming all of it on the wheels; the wheels they said caused a "bending" motion... any large amount of weight on an axle will do that and that weight is transfered at the bearings... with only one race per side it seems thats the issue based on your link. Working for an automotive parts manufacturer I can say with certainty that Toyota/OEM RV maker of recall wouldnt have laid out free axle and hardware kits if just the wheels were the only problem (after all it bankrupted some of them). there are shorty sunrader owners on this forum that have had axle failures post recall (which I misrembered as chinooks) and as for single wheel shorties I believe that would be a higher weight than what any single tire is rated for in the rear; still quite dangerous for blow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think the one factor that is missing in this conversation is vehicle weight. It would be worth a few bucks to drive the RV across a scale and get weights for the front and rear wheels.,Then a more intelligent decision could be made as to the risk. Some of the lighter Toyhouses may do just fine with the single fixed axles (AND single tires), because they're operating under their design limits (Gross operating weight), The single axles should have a reasonable safety factor, but when the fake dullies are installed, it shifts the center of load on the bearing surface, The bearing isn't designed to be loaded like this, so the safety factor and the Gross Vehicle weights all go out the window,. The bearings should be loaded so that the rolling load on the bearing is centered on the surface of the roller. Here is what the loading looks like on the full float dullies (two bearings supporting load) This is what the loading looks like for a single axle, non-floating (one bearing supporting load) When the center of load is moved off the bearings center, it puts a twisting moment on the bearing, The loads on the bearing roller are now focused on the outer edge of the roller instead of across the entire surface of the roller. This will lead to premature bearing failure as the bearing isn't designed to operate like this. IMHO - The fake dullies improve tire loading, but at the cost of premature bearing failure due to asymmetrical bearing loads. I think if I had one of these vehicles, I'd run it across the scale. If it was at or slightly above its Gross weight, I would remove the fake dullies and put the best quality truck tire on it I could find. I'd monitor and religiously change the rear end fluid. NOTE - I edited this post to fix the wrong drawing thats referenced in the following post. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Thank you John for adding the technical explaination. You said it much better than I could have LS I think the one factor that is missing in this conversation is vehicle weight. It would be worth a few bucks to drive the RV across a scale and get weights for the front and rear wheels.,Then a more intelligent decision could be made as to the risk. Some of the lighter Toyhouses may do just fine with the single fixed axles (AND single tires), because they're operating under their design limits (Gross operating weight), The single axles should have a reasonable safety factor, but when the fake dullies are installed, it shifts the center of load on the bearing surface, The bearing isn't designed to be loaded like this, so the safety factor and the Gross Vehicle weights all go out the window,. The bearings should be loaded so that the rolling load on the bearing is centered on the surface of the roller. When the center of load is moved off the bearings center, it puts a twisting moment on the bearing, The loads on the bearing roller are now focused on the outer edge of the roller instead of across the entire surface of the roller. This will lead to premature bearing failure as the bearing isn't designed to operate like this. IMHO - The fake dullies improve tire loading, but at the cost of premature bearing failure due to asymmetrical bearing loads. I think if I had one of these vehicles, I'd run it across the scale. If it was at or slightly above its Gross weight, I would remove the fake dullies and put the best quality truck tire on it I could find. I'd monitor and religiously change the rear end fluid. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 John your close in your idea but your drawing is of the full floater rear. The fake duallies rear only had 1 bearing. A single tire is centered on that bearing. The fake dually moves the center way outboard like you show but worse. Also because the axle is supported at the differential, the fake duallies actually bend the axle like a fishing pole and that is what causes the axle to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 WME - Sorry about that. Don't know why I had two bearings. The signle axle has one bearing, the other end of the axle is supported by the "Pumpkin" (the differential) With a true floating axle, the loads that are transferred from the dual wheels is centered thru the bearings. Heres the update drawings and I included a floating dully. EDIT NOTE - I corrected the drawings in my other post. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.