Ctgriffi Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 I've got a pretty ugly sound happening up front occasionally when taking a low-speed turn, and I'm starting to plan for some suspension work. Ball joints are probably a no-brainer, but I'm thinking I might just go head and replace upper/lower control arms as well. I don't like the look of rust/wear/age up there. Would like things to know those important parts are right/good before any more long-ish trips. I can google and peruse RockAuto/eBay/Amazon with the best of them, but I thought I'd see if anybody has experience (or strong opinions) on specific aftermarket suspension parts. Or, if you think this is a must-go-oem scenario, holler back too. Appreciate the help, friends! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Add to your lists new HD torsion bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 3 hours ago, WME said: Add to your lists new HD torsion bars. Hadn't considered that yet. Didn't realize that they could "go bad." Although I can see why they might need adjustment after all the years... Here's a pair for $225 http://a.co/d/b3ptUYH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 They rarely go bad, but its part of a full suspension upgrade. Poly bushings, anti sway bars F&R, new rear spring pack. Ya know all the right stuff for MR-2 like handling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 before you dump out your wallet, DIAGNOSE the problem. then you can BUY the parts you really need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseybernard Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I also get a pop-like sound when turning slowly. I thought it might be the outer or inner tierods but haven't jacked up a front tire to check side to side movement yet. I just replaced the outer tierods on my honda del sol vtec as the boots were shot and the endlinks as well. The rock auto myotech parts were better than oem and inexpensive. Don't think i need the inner tierod removal tool in the truck. Looks easier as long as you keep the total tierod lengths identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 On 9/12/2018 at 4:09 AM, odysseybernard said: ... The rock auto myotech parts were better than oem and inexpensive... Cool! That's helpful and much appreciated. On 8/30/2018 at 9:20 PM, DanAatTheCape said: before you dump out your wallet, DIAGNOSE the problem. then you can BUY the parts you really need. I kind of agree with that, usually, and I do need to do more/better diagnosis of the problem. Still, when the vehicle is 27 years old, with rusty, worn, original parts, and I've got the wherewithal to do the work myself, I never feel bad about dropping $$$ on replacment parts. Always seems like forward progress, a win-win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Finally spent a good chunk of time trying to troubleshoot the weird noises we've been hearing on the road: Jacked up the front end, tugged/yanked on everything under there, checked for any unwanted movement in the ball joints, smoothness in the bearings, etc, etc. Also jacked up the rear end, crawled around and looked everything over, tightened up bolts, etc, etc. Still haven't been able to identify or correct the problem. Once again, here are the symptoms: driving on the highway or on most country roads, for hours at a time, everything will be fine and dandy. But, drive slowly around a corner, especially on uneven or tilted pavement (you know the kind; when the coach wants to roll), and you get an occasional, loud clunking/grating noise that is difficult to pinpoint. I feel like it's near me in the driver's seat, but wife thinks it might be coming from the back. Could this be body mounts? Sway bar bushings? Other ideas? It's a pretty severe sound, not something you'd want to ignore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Leaf spring eye bushings? Have someone ride in the back and see if that's where it still is from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 If it only happens on a turn it's the steering stops. Parts places even call them groan stoppers https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/8116-01066171.html?utm_content=YN&utm_term=1985-1995+Toyota+Pickup+Groan+Stopper+Bolt+Cover+Genuine+W0133-1639958+85-95+Toyota+Groan+Stopper+Bolt+Cover+1990+1994&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsMDeBRDMARIsAKrOP7HVciwW8bSHNftizCbctzSbWdr_Dz-QxK-o-ZLDzEvCUKF6fjtrpOkaAuYnEALw_wcB&ad=47433949212 Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) Great ideas, thank you! Leaf spring bushings are in pretty good shape, Derek. I've replaced most of them over the last few years, with poly ones from Energy Suspension. There might be one or two left that are worth double-checking again though... will do! Yeah, doesn't only happen while turning, and I definitely checked those groan stoppers: they're in good, solid shape. (thanks, Linda) Edited October 24, 2018 by Ctgriffi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Ball Joints? Mine was making too much noise for a while too and ball joints put an end to it. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 also check the idler arm, easy to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) So I did have one bad leaf spring bushing on the front eyelet, passenger side. Got that replaced last night in ~1-1/2 hrs, which wasn't too shabby for one guy, crawling around in a gravel driveway (if you've messed with these bushings much, you know what I'm talking about!). All rear bushings are Energy Suspension poly now. Back end does feel tighter, but I'm still getting an occasional ugly noise from the front: on slow turns, uneven pavement, etc. 15 hours ago, DanAatTheCape said: also check the idler arm, easy to do I'll put that on the list, thank you... Care to offer a few pointers on the best way to do that, Dan? Edited October 29, 2018 by Ctgriffi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I have been following this thread. When you say on slow turns do you mean with the steering wheel turned to its stop. If so try rubbing some heavy grease on those groan stops. It may help. Darrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Yep once upon a time they had little plastic ends on the stop bolts I can say replacing them will stop the noise on a hard turn but I can also say they really don't last very long. My old 80 pickup did the same thing so when ever I serviced it I put a dab of grease on the control arm it usually lasted until I serviced it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 hours ago, darrel said: ...When you say on slow turns do you mean with the steering wheel turned to its stop. If so try rubbing some heavy grease on those groan stops. It may help. Darrel Unfortunately no, not a tight radius turn, etc. Just a basic turn at a standard intersection, especially when turning to go slightly uphill/downhill... I wish I could record the noise, maybe that would help. It is very noticeable but hard to describe: I've been saying, "clunk," but that's not really accurate. If I get really creative... I might say it sounds like a front wheel seized for half-a-second with a chunk of gravel trapped between that tire and the asphalt, while at the same time somebody gave the frame a pretty good tap with a ball-peen hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Ctgriffi said: So I did have one bad leaf spring bushing on the front eyelet, passenger side. Got that replaced last night in ~1-1/2 hrs, which wasn't too shabby for one guy, crawling around in a gravel driveway (if you've messed with these bushings much, you know what I'm talking about!). All rear bushings are Energy Suspension poly now. Back end does feel tighter, but I'm still getting an occasional ugly noise from the front: on slow turns, uneven pavement, etc. I'll put that on the list, thank you... Care to offer a few pointers on the best way to do that, Dan? just reach & grab it - shake it around - check the tie rod ends and where the center rod connects to the steering - I just replaced my idler - it only had 50k miles on it (autozone). If you jack up the front (one side) and grab your wheel and try to turn it in either direction and get any play.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share Posted November 8, 2018 Got up under there again to check the idler arm and tie rod ends. Not feeling any play or movement. Steering seems smooth and normal: on jack stands and on the ground. I greased a few more areas up front, on both sides—places that look like contact could be made in a sharp turn or when leaning. I think the noise is still there but will need to do more test driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 I started this thread awhile back but haven't had the time or inclination ('cause it's dang cold/winter!) to pursue the solution further. Today, while mulling it over further, I had this simple thought: could this just be a front wheel bearing going bad? We're planning a trip to NM in ~6 weeks, so I need to get back on this, sooner than later. Probably a good idea to pull/inspect the bearings and races, either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 Old-ish thread. But it's mine, so here we go: I'm in the middle of tearing all the front end apart (finally) on this 90 chassis and replacing a lot of old, very rusty stuff. I got a wake-up call at the beginning when removing the 4 bolts that secure the front sway bar to the frame—3 of the 4 broke almost immediately, without a great deal of force. From then on, it was sawzall-and-grinder, ratchet-and-wrenches, sawzall-and-grinder... and so it goes. I've got a question about #7 on this diagram: big support bar that spans frame rails. I wasn't planning on touching that thing, but it's got a big, fat rubber bushing between bar-and-bracket on one side, with no bushing left (at all!) on the other side. Makes me wonder if this could be the source of the clunking I get occasionally at random times. Has anybody removed this bar to replace the bushings? Any part numbers possibly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Measured that big bar at 33mm where it sits against the frame (bigger than that at the center, directly underneath the truck). Turns out, the one surviving bushing on the bar still has a legible PN: 90950-01654 I didn't see much online that seemed to be a match, but the supporting brackets are pretty much shot as well, so I'm thinking about going with this Energy Suspension kit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CN5FBY/?coliid=I1A8RRDV1GDRW9&colid=15KXLPJXGL4BV&psc=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Is this any help? https://www.megazip.net/zapchasti-dlya-avtomobilej/toyota/hilux-4runner-truck-42451/rn80-55758/rn80l-trkrea-914754/frame-17783928?nid=6588423#g17783928/frame/il-412218394-4578034-4578034 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share Posted October 18, 2019 Thanks, Derek! That is the part number I saw, although it’s described in that link as a “frame hole plug,” which doesn’t sound right. I will probably end up grabbing a kit with the bushings and brackets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseybernard Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 On my 91, i don't see a bushing between the bar and bracket, just what looks like a "frame hole plug" at each end. I can pull one out and try and see a pn if that would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) On 10/24/2019 at 3:24 AM, odysseybernard said: On my 91, i don't see a bushing between the bar and bracket, just what looks like a "frame hole plug" at each end. I can pull one out and try and see a pn if that would help. Whoops, you are correct... there isn't an actual bushing on that big support bar (and doesn't need to be one), just the rubber plug on each end of the bar. Not sure what I was thinking—guess I didn't get a good look at it the first time. I still need to make sure that the bar-to-frame brackets are solid though. Don't want that thing coming loose. Edited November 15, 2019 by Ctgriffi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) Long time since I started this thread, but better late than never: I ended up replacing upper and lower control arms + all front bushings, sway bar links, bump stops, and ball joints. Also, pulled the steering gear and had it rebuilt, too. The major problem that started the whole thing (see first post in thread) didn't become very obvious until I was well into the job: each lower control arm has a large strut bar that connects to the frame via a hefty bracket assembly. That strut bracket bolts to a crossmember that spans the frame rails at the very front of the chassis, and the crossmember was badly rusted underneath—very common on older Toyo pickups, apparently. Basically, once the bottom edge of that crossmember starts to rot out, the nuts welded inside of it (the bracket attachment points) break free, and the whole strut bar can start to shift and grind: a nasty sound and also dangerous, of course, since those struts have a big, important job: helping to keep the front wheels in the correct geometry. I read a bunch of threads on the subject, "rusty front crossmember," and ended up landing on my own solution that seemed to fit the bill: I bought a 3-foot length of 3" x 3" x 1/8" angle and cut it to span the frame rails. Carefully (!) measured for the strut attachment holes, drilled 'em, and welded nuts on the upper side of those holes. Test-fit everything and then welded the angle iron in place, up against the existing crossmember (much of it was still good/solid), and also to the left and right frame rails. Just took it for a brief test drive today, and the front end is feeling nice and tight, quiet and smooth. Not a groan, ping or whimper to be heard. Next week, I'll take it by the alignment shop and... should be home free. Edited May 1, 2020 by Ctgriffi added top of page link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseybernard Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Wow, sounds like I need to do this also. Any pics at all would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 I've got a few pics that I'll post down below, OdysseyBernard... and here's what I used in terms of parts for the whole job: Dorman 522-651 Upper Control Arms x 2 Mevotech CMS86141/CMS86142 Lower Control Arms (these include ball joints but no bump stops, which I needed) Mevotech MK9343 Upper Ball Joints x 2 Energy Suspension 85104G Sway Bar Bushing Kit Energy Suspension 9.9103G Upper Bump Stops Energy Suspension 9.9136G Lower Bump Stops MUCH Hardware from BelMetric.com BelMetric.com was a big help because I was dealing with tons of rust and ended up having to grind or cut-off nearly every bolt that I touched. My local stores just didn't have the superior selection (or prices) that I needed. The big lower control arm bushings are a real challenge to remove/replace, by the way... air tools and a big torch are a must, unless you want to put crazy, miserable hours into it, like I did. So, if those bushings look good and the rubber around the steel core is intact, just leave 'em alone. The angle iron for the front crossmember repair was sourced locally (crossmember is #2 on the diagram a few posts above)—I'll drop a photo of that in too, although my welding is not pretty. FCAW isn't exactly attractive anyway, but I also need much more practice. Anyway, there might be lots of other, better ways to fix that crossmember, but I'm happy with the results. FRONT-END BEFORE FRONT-END AFTER CROSSMEMBER - CLEANED/PAINTED (BOTTOM RUSTED-OUT) CROSSMEMBER - REPAIRED WITH ANGLE IRON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 That before and after photo is very satisfying, can’t wait to do mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseybernard Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Thanks alot for the pics, will check mine for rust. Same year as yours so I'm not optimistic. To a nonwelder it looks great! Do you need any special tools to change the control arms and ball joints other than a ball joint puller fork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctgriffi Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 24 minutes ago, odysseybernard said: Do you need any special tools to change the control arms and ball joints other than a ball joint puller fork? This helped quite a bit: https://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html Depending on the amount of age and corrosion, an angle grinder with cutting discs and flap discs are very useful, not to mention a torch and lots of PB Blaster. And the usual metric ratchet set, wrenches, and a decent torque wrench. It's a tough job. Doing your research, studying the service manual, etc. is highly recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Ctgriffi said: Depending on the amount of age and corrosion, an angle grinder with cutting discs and flap discs are very useful, not to mention a torch and lots of PB Blaster. And the usual metric ratchet set, wrenches, and a decent torque wrench. And a BFH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseybernard Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Front crossmember looks pretty good without significant rust although I could not feel the nuts welded to the inside of the crossmember at the brackets, but the attachment bracket bolts seem solid. so I don't think this is the cause of the popping noise I sometimes hear with slow, sharp turns. Maybe it is the bump stops after all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odysseybernard Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Treated surface rust and painted. Probably an overkill since it was pretty solid as rig came from calif., But fixed a few dents and painted the lower fender so it was off anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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