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Yours looks like your front tire. We need to see the back. Either that or there's a thick adapter between the inside and the outside tire to allow the addition of the second tire. Those cause the same offset that damages the wheel bearing and causes axle failure.

Linda S

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From the pictures it looks to be some kind of adapter that is bolted to the inside wheel the tube is hollow so that is not the axle regardless that mess has got to go. Other than losing the wheel when the axle breaks the entire mess is still bolted together including the rear brake drum so you also lose the rear brakes just to make things even more exciting.

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13 hours ago, 81 MiniCruiser said:

Those look totally different than mine -

 

Looks aren't everything. There were several versions of 'foolies'. Without removing the wheel you've posted to confirm, I strongly suspect this is what you'll find hiding behind the outer wheel. Unfortunately, they're still foolies, loading the axle in ways not designed for. :(

 

5 lug adapter.jpg

 

5 lug adapter with outer rim.jpg

 

5 lug adapter view.jpg

 

5 lug adapter with hub cap.jpg

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Your tires (Primewell PS580) and size (P195/75R14) are not normally recommended for motorhome service, though for the (assumed) light weight of your MH will be OK as long as the inner sidewalls aren't too close to allow rubbing or cause tire overheating.

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11 hours ago, Derek up North said:

Can't tell anything about the rear axle until you remove the hubcap. My money is on a 5-lug axle lurking.

I asked before if the way to determine if it was the bad axle was by counting the lugs. 5 is bad. Unless I misunderstood I was told no. If it’s 5 lugs, is it bad?

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Yes, it's bad. The full floating axle besides the lugs is built differently than the standard axle. There's a hub that sticks out in the middle and there are 2 wheel bearings on each wheel to properly support the vehicle. The 5  or 6 lugs might be the identifier but there's more to it than that. 

Linda S

 

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Thanks.  I realized I didn't ask if 5 lugs was the identifier in my original post.  I had asked if single vs. dual wheels was the identifier.  I had helped him post it for sale and some people had asked, but we weren't sure.  I've learned so much on this site and very grateful 🙂

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Hey forum friends!

So I started another post asking a few questions about my new rig, but I figured I'd move the axle question here:

Just got myself a 1980 Dolphin with the dually and tag axle, with 84,000 miles. I'm very excited, as it's my first Toyota Motorhome, and my second Toyota truck (I have a 94 pickup with the 22re, which I just rebuilt).

I have some questions that maybe y'all could help me out with. First, this appears to be one with a recall axle (has the 5 lug extra deep rim with two wheels on it). I'm assuming I should replace it. Any advice on how to go about either replacing or getting it replaced? Do both the dually and the tag axle need to be replaced, or just the dually? Does National RV still honor the recall? If not I would do it myself, but I'd need to know what axles would work for a replacement. I've heard that axles from the v6 4runner work, is that true?

Thanks for any help!

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National is long out of business.

 

What to do about your foolies  will probably be open to lengthy debate. I don't remember your situation/question/problem coming up before. Technically, it was recalled, since it's fitted 'with aftermarket dual rear wheels'.

Axles included 1978 - 1986.jpg

 

The complete paperwork for National.

 

Axle Recall - National RV - RC-91V060-NN.PDF

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Oh, I didn't realize national was out of business. Any advice or leads on axles to replace it? Do I need to replace the tag axle? 

I attached a picture of both the "dually" and the tag axle.

IMG_20200709_130301.jpg

IMG_20200709_130403.jpg

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Oh interesting, does the dually need to be replaced then?

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I’m a little confused here. If you have a tag axle, why would you need duel wheels on the back axle.

Never seen a National motorhome. What kind of weight do you have. Seems like overkill to me.

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Posted (edited)

Not disputing the tag axle, just the duels on the back.

Looking at the brochure picture, I don’t see the extreme offset on the rear wheels like Ska has in his picture. They seem like standard factory wheels. Which makes sense. 6 wheels on the back seems excessive.

Again, I’ve never actually got a chance to look at a Toyota tag axle setup.

Update: Ska, do your outside  rear duels line up exactly  with the tag axle wheels, or do they extend out further? I’m wondering if someone added the foolie wheels after the fact.

Edited by fred heath
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40 minutes ago, linda s said:

It looks to me your tag axle was not included in the recall. Say it applies to single rear axles. Yours has 2 rear axles. Read notes at the bottom

https://auto-recalls.justia.com/national-rv/dolphin/1983/91v060000/index.html

Linda S

 

I'd say it depends on if you pick the right phrase. This applies just as well:-

 

"VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: MICRO-MINI MOTORHOMES BUILT ON TOYOTA CAMPER CAB-CHASSIS EQUIPPED WITH AFTERMARKET DUAL REAR WHEELS ON A REAR AXLE DESIGNED FOR SINGLE WHEELS."

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4 minutes ago, fred heath said:

6 wheels on the back seems excessive.

 

That's the way National chose to do it. Foolies on the drive axle. Other manufacturers used single on their drive axle.

 

 

1981 Dolphin Tag Axle.jpg

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Wow!!!! Talk about overkill.

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Am I correct in assuming that the "dually" is one of the recalled axles?

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Posted (edited)

Ok. If this was mine to do I would measure the width of the tag axle, drum face to drum face. Then find a suitable axle with 4.10 gearing and a 5x4.5 wheel setup. Axle doesn’t have to be ff due to the tag axle. Install replacement axle and switch to single wheels on the drive axle. Factory Toyota wheels will mount to 5x4.5 studs. If the replacement axle is a little shorter, you could add spacers to compensate.

Not sure what the cost would be, but might be easier than trying to source a 6 lug ff Toyota axle. Upside, you don’t need to carry two spare tires.

Jeep axle would be the first place I’d look.

Edited by fred heath
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Ditch the duel wheels with the tag axle just use the 4 wheels. I'll try to explain the axles a semi floating axle has one bearing it supports the weight, a floating axle has two bearings the axle supports zero weight all it does is turn the hub the hub itself supports the weight the axle just turns it. A semiflating axle bears the weight and turns the wheel. There is a "radius" that is a part of the axle it's kind of like a angle brace so the radius bears the weight beyond the bearing this is what fails with excessive weight. It breaks right there where it meets the axle so the wheel and brake drum and the end of the axle part the ways from the axle that is still housed in the bearing. That as many have found it's not a good thing. Adding "foolies" just creates more leverage and greater stress on the radius.

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On 7/9/2020 at 5:11 PM, Maineah said:

Ditch the duel wheels with the tag axle just use the 4 wheels. I'll try to explain the axles a semi floating axle has one bearing it supports the weight, a floating axle has two bearings the axle supports zero weight all it does is turn the hub the hub itself supports the weight the axle just turns it. A semiflating axle bears the weight and turns the wheel. There is a "radius" that is a part of the axle it's kind of like a angle brace so the radius bears the weight beyond the bearing this is what fails with excessive weight. It breaks right there where it meets the axle so the wheel and brake drum and the end of the axle part the ways from the axle that is still housed in the bearing. That as many have found it's not a good thing. Adding "foolies" just creates more leverage and greater stress on the radius.

 

I get what you're saying. I'm curious about whether or not it's advisable to ditch the tag axle on these models, seems like the wheelbase is pretty short to support all that 8 feet or so past that first set of rear wheels.

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Your coach has two separate wheel wells on the back. If you delete the tag axle you’ll have two gaping holes on the body. Would look pretty weird going down the road. Not to mention the support the tag axle gives the body.

You could remove the foolies and drop to singles on the drive axle ( I think this is what Maineah was thinking). This would inset the wheels on the drive axle 6-7” from the tag wheels on each side. Might look funny, but would solve the foolie problem. This would be the cheapest route to take if you’re not concerned with appearance. If you go this route, you should replace the wheel bearings on the drive axle at the same time.

On a side note, take some pictures of your tag axle setup. I’ve never seen how these things were installed. I’m curious.

Second edit (got more coffee in me). You could try relieving most of the air pressure on the outside foolie wheels. Keep the inner foolie and tag axle tires well inflated. This would relieve the stress placed on the axle shaft by the outside foolie. The rig would look the same. Just brainstorming here.

Edited by fred heath
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I would make the thing like the designers planed it it unloads the drive axle but still helps the weight bearing issue. The follies were a disaster just going somewhere  to happen. The only drawback is tire ware on a tag axle it's not a big deal but. Yeah they looked silly but I never heard of any issues with them.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello I have an axle out of an 87/88 I’m about to swap into my 83. However the axle did not come with a differential/third member. Does anyone know if the diff off of my 83 will bolt into the full float axle?

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I'm pretty sure you can. Never done it so can't be positive but the differentials for the 4 cylinder were pretty much unchanged from 1979 into the 90's. The axle was used on 4 cylinders in 87 and 88 so it should fit yours. 

Linda S

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5 hours ago, linda s said:

I'm pretty sure you can. Never done it so can't be positive but the differentials for the 4 cylinder were pretty much unchanged from 1979 into the 90's. The axle was used on 4 cylinders in 87 and 88 so it should fit yours. 

Linda S

 

Thank you, was just planning on rebuilding the full float while I have it out and was going to try and source a differential so I could have it all ready to go when I pull out the current 5 lug. Just would hate to pull the current 5 lug diff and have it not fit the new full float!

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The diff is from a Hiace I kind of think the truck was a 7" and the one ton an 8 there is also the matter of the axle splines. But don't trust me my memory ain't what it used to be!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an update and for future reference in case any one comes across this post, but yes the differential / third member from a 5 lug fits the 6 lug full floating axle. Mine is actually from an 86 (LH threads) but it bolted up just fine.

119987473_649233065969186_2002820945713931875_n.jpg

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I found and purchased a ff dually axle. However, I am now seriously considering going to single wheels on the back of my Scat. As Linda suggested this to me, I am hoping that she might be able to advise as to what year of single axle I should be looking for? Perhaps others have an idea?

TIA, especially Linda.

 

Toyota Scat.JPG

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If you already have this dually I want you to check and see if the connection to the drive shaft, pinion flange, is the same as yours.  I have heard about adapters but can't find any for trucks that early. If the dually axle matches then most other Toyota axle will fit too. An 86 and up will give you and extra 3 1/2 inches of width. 2wd if you want all your wheels to match.

A Tacoma axle will give you 60 inches of width but you'll have to upgrade your front wheels to 15 inches and the gear ratios aren't optimal. Seems all the 5 lugs came with 3.58 gearing. Most of ours are 4.11 or 4.10. 

I'm pretty sure I recommended single wheels with your existing axle. Your rig is light enough and it would be the cheapest. I've never changed out an axle so hopefully someone who has will comment. Fred switched his 78 to a GM axle so I'm sure he knows more about getting the drive shaft connected

Linda S

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