jjrbus Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 19 hours ago, DanAatTheCape said: curious, why do you want to modify the tool? Trying to get the shim removal tool to stay on the bucket was next to impossible, 25, 30 attempts on each shim. Finally get the shim held down, pull the shim and if it touched the tool, the tool would pop out or might pop out without being touched! Watching people on videos putting tool in and pulling shim out with no issues, then reading about how the tools were big time savers, or people were pulling the cams to do the job as it was easier. Either I was doing something very wrong or there was something wrong with the tool.. Grinding the tool down did 2 things, it thinned the tool, then I had to clean up the edge of the tool that sits on the bucket with a file, So now I am curious if pricier tools are thinner or if sharpening the edge that did the trick. Quote
Maineah Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, jjrbus said: Trying to get the shim removal tool to stay on the bucket was next to impossible, 25, 30 attempts on each shim. Finally get the shim held down, pull the shim and if it touched the tool, the tool would pop out or might pop out without being touched! Watching people on videos putting tool in and pulling shim out with no issues, then reading about how the tools were big time savers, or people were pulling the cams to do the job as it was easier. Either I was doing something very wrong or there was something wrong with the tool.. Grinding the tool down did 2 things, it thinned the tool, then I had to clean up the edge of the tool that sits on the bucket with a file, So now I am curious if pricier tools are thinner or if sharpening the edge that did the trick. I don't know what to tell you I never had issues with mine mind you this was many years ago maybe they were better quality. Removing the cams is one method but it's a lot more labor intensive there are some that it is the only method like an "E" type Jag because the shims were under the buckets. I'll also add if you are not careful you run the risk of possibly breaking the cams because some valves will be against spring tension and if you wrench down on the cam caps unevenly it will put undo tension on the cams. Edited June 11, 2018 by Maineah Quote
DanAatTheCape Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 I think you might be overthinking this thing. I found that compressing the lifter (centered on shim) THEN placing the little tool on the edge worked quite well. For the ones where the curved tool could not be used due to stuff in the way (I only did exhaust , my intake were good, I found about 1/2 had access issues). When I could not use the tool, I used a small bent screwdriver - which required a copy of iterations to get the lifter all the way compressed - I would use the smaller end of the tool to hold the whole thing down, then I could re-position the screwdriver to get enough action to compress all the way. Quote
jjrbus Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Maineah said: I don't know what to tell you I never had issues with mine mind you this was many years ago maybe they were better quality. Removing the cams is one method but it's a lot more labor intensive there are some that it is the only method like an "E" type Jag because the shims were under the buckets. I'll also add if you are not careful you run the risk of possibly breaking the cams because some valves will be against spring tension and if you wrench down on the cam caps unevenly it will put undo tension on the cams. You likely did not buy cheap Ebay tools, may be the reason you had no issues. When I Google valve adjustment 3VZE there are quite a few that insist it is easier to remove the cams. I strongly suspect it is the cheap poorly formed tools that is the issue. I have asked and cannot find anyone in this area to compare tools. Quote
Ctgriffi Posted June 11, 2018 Author Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) For what it's worth... I had similar difficulties with the tool I used, and I completely understand why the width matters: if the hold-down tool is any wider than the edge of the bucket, it will mostly likely pop out of place when you try to pull the shim because the shim will bump against it, dislodge it, and cause everything to blow up in your face, over and over and over. It simply is quite difficult to do this task with the cams in place—I think it will always be hard, no matter the tools. But, if I ever have to do it again, I will try the grinding down, squaring up approach that you mentioned, jjrbus. Every little bit helps! The following sounds like a joke, but it is not: you almost need the hands of a brain surgeon to do this job in a "reasonable" amount of time (whatever that is). Edited June 11, 2018 by Ctgriffi Quote
DanAatTheCape Posted June 11, 2018 Posted June 11, 2018 I bought a Schley 88250 -- many available - google if interested. Quote
jjrbus Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 18 hours ago, Ctgriffi said: For what it's worth... I had similar difficulties with the tool I used, and I completely understand why the width matters: if the hold-down tool is any wider than the edge of the bucket, it will mostly likely pop out of place when you try to pull the shim because the shim will bump against it, dislodge it, and cause everything to blow up in your face, over and over and over. It simply is quite difficult to do this task with the cams in place—I think it will always be hard, no matter the tools. But, if I ever have to do it again, I will try the grinding down, squaring up approach that you mentioned, jjrbus. Every little bit helps! The following sounds like a joke, but it is not: you almost need the hands of a brain surgeon to do this job in a "reasonable" amount of time (whatever that is). Thanks for the response. After grinding the tool down I went from total frustration to poping them out on the first or second try, night and day. In the video in this post it is shown putting the tool on the left hand side or cove side of the bucket, I could still not do that after grinding the tool. Quote
DanAatTheCape Posted June 12, 2018 Posted June 12, 2018 (edited) On 6/11/2018 at 6:54 AM, jjrbus said: Grinding the tool down did 2 things, it thinned the tool, then I had to clean up the edge of the tool that sits on the bucket with a file, So now I am curious if pricier tools are thinner or if sharpening the edge that did the trick. I measured the thickness for your perusal using my Harbor Freight plastic measuring device. I also included a picture of the bent screwdriver I used on the exhaust valves I could not access with the 88250 tool. When I used that tool, it was a 5 step procedure- 1) use screwdriver to compress lifter (would not compress all the way); 2) use little end of 88251 to hold lifter while I re-positioned screwdriver; 3) used little screwdriver to compress the lifter the rest of the way necessary; 4) used large end of 88251 - placing it on edge of lifter (on the rim of the cup); 5) Then I could use a magnet and a pointed tool to pop out the shim. Edited June 12, 2018 by DanAatTheCape Quote
jjrbus Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Thanks Dan appreciated, but still leaves me wondering what is going on. My tool measured where I did not grind it down is the same thickness. I bought the Power Built brand for under $30. Quote
DanAatTheCape Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, jjrbus said: Thanks Dan appreciated, but still leaves me wondering what is going on. My tool measured where I did not grind it down is the same thickness. I bought the Power Built brand for under $30. I am guessing you are having trouble of the tool slipping off the rim of the cup? It is hard to see while using the tool. Is the surface of the tool - the side that is placed on the rim of the cup - rounded off? If so, maybe grinding it down flat might help? Looks like the same thickness as mine. If you look back thru my link in this thread to my shim job, I have dimensions of the 2 "feet" on the tool for comparison. Edited June 13, 2018 by DanAatTheCape Quote
jjrbus Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, DanAatTheCape said: I am guessing you are having trouble of the tool slipping off the rim of the cup? It is hard to see while using the tool. Is the surface of the tool - the side that is placed on the rim of the cup - rounded off? If so, maybe grinding it down flat might help? Looks like the same thickness as mine. If you look back thru my link in this thread to my shim job, I have dimensions of the 2 "feet" on the tool for comparison. It will not make any difference for me as I highly doubt I will ever do this again, would be nice to be able to help someone else out. So if someone is reading this thread and getting frustrated with the shim tool, try filing the end flat or grinding down the thickness. Quote
Ctgriffi Posted June 22, 2018 Author Posted June 22, 2018 You get it all back together okay, jjrbus? How's she idling and running now? Quote
jjrbus Posted June 22, 2018 Posted June 22, 2018 Thanks for asking. There was that moment in the cab when I hesitant about turning the key. It fired right up and runs very well. I was surprised at how well it ran and seemed to have more power. I asked about it and then did a Google, it seems that adjusting valves will restore power that has been lost as the valves go out of adjustment. I have not taken a trip in it yet, just ran it up and down the interstate a few miles. I do not keep tract of my mpg, so cannot check but I would not be surprised if it goes up a bit. This is one job I do not want to do again. Quote
Maineah Posted June 23, 2018 Posted June 23, 2018 With an engine with known valve clearance issues a job well done! Quote
thewanderlustking Posted December 31, 2022 Posted December 31, 2022 On 3/2/2017 at 12:00 PM, Ctgriffi said: driver's side view Haha THANK YOU for this little gem of a picture! I have been staring at the actual factory manuals, Alldata, and googling stuff for hours now trying to figure out where the transmission dipstick for my 4runner is supposed to go. I was actually going to pop up on here and ask. But finally the right google fu brough me here anyways! Quote
Andrewups Posted August 31, 2023 Posted August 31, 2023 Great info, I know now what I'm doing this winter. Thanks. Quote
thewanderlustking Posted September 1, 2023 Posted September 1, 2023 This popped back in my lists to respond to and I wanted to add a caution to the "removing the camshaft" method mentioned. Ignoring the other extra effort doing that causes, it puts our wonderfull Japanese pot metal at risk... One of the ONLY complaints I have about Toyotas is the aluminum they used is either crap to start with, or very well fatigued by now. I have been wrenching for years and can't remember the last time I personally stripped out engine or transmission bolts, before this 4Runner. I have easily made up a decade of really good luck on this thing. Every job done on it with bolts going into aluminum bits, something seems to strip out... I had to do a valve cover gasket on mine as oil was pouring out of the back cam plug. The last moron in had stripped both the rear cam caps bolts. And just left them in there like that lol. Anyways I would do whatever possible to take less risk, and not pull the camshafts haha! Quote
Desert Surf Posted October 1 Posted October 1 Does anyone have a indy mechanic that will tackle this job? I'm just wondering if I should look for one or just have the local dealer do it. They want approximately $600 plus parts. I just bought this rig with unknown maintenance history and I'm assuming everything needs to be done. Neil Quote
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