Motordome Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Hi Everyone, I have been lurking this site for years since it is pretty much the only spot I have found that has any info about Mirage RV's.I have found this place to be a great reference tool for my rig with one small exception... mine was built on an S10 cab and chassis. It has been undergoing a multi-year restoration and lately I have been working on a rear end upgrade which utilizes the famous 1 ton dually rear end. So now that I have Toyota parts going on it I hope I won't be shunned by the group The axle came out of a 1990 U-haul truck I picked up a couple months ago. Getting it to fit the S10 is going to be a little involved but I think I have a pretty solid plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whyverne14 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Interesting project. Good luck on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwolfgti Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Always fun to see a new project. lots of pics please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Looks like a fine upgrade, but I have to ask. Why choose the Toyota/Dyna dually when you are working on an S10? I've got a 21 foot Dolphin RV parked near me I can buy cheap and it is built upon a 1983 S10 chassis. The price keeps going down and I might wind up buying it for $500. Runs fine and has a 2.8 V6 and a 700R4 trans with lock-up converter and OD. It also has a very convoluted add-on dually kit of unknown make or origin. If I get it - I too want to stick in a full-floater. I already have a spare Toyota full-floater and a dozen of those scarce 6 X 7.25" 14" wheels. But - I'd like to match GM to GM if possible and also have matching front and rear wheels. I don't own it yet, so have not done much research. I am kind of hoping though to use a 14 bolt semi-floater from a 3/4 ton truck, and perhaps will find adapter hubs to put on front so the wheels match. As far as I know - S10s always had 5 lug wheels and the 14 bolt GM rears always had 6 or 8 lug wheels. So, I don't know if there is an easy swap to have wheels match, front and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I've no idea if any parts would be anywhere near interchangeable, but the Astro van was offered with 5-lugs and later 6-lugs. EDIT:- Of course, the Astro and S-10 have different 5-lug BCDs. That would be too convenient! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 4 hours ago, jdemaris said: Looks like a fine upgrade, but I have to ask. Why choose the Toyota/Dyna dually when you are working on an S10? I've got a 21 foot Dolphin RV parked near me I can buy cheap and it is built upon a 1983 S10 chassis. The price keeps going down and I might wind up buying it for $500. Runs fine and has a 2.8 V6 and a 700R4 trans with lock-up converter and OD. It also has a very convoluted add-on dually kit of unknown make or origin. If I get it - I too want to stick in a full-floater. I already have a spare Toyota full-floater and a dozen of those scarce 6 X 7.25" 14" wheels. But - I'd like to match GM to GM if possible and also have matching front and rear wheels. I don't own it yet, so have not done much research. I am kind of hoping though to use a 14 bolt semi-floater from a 3/4 ton truck, and perhaps will find adapter hubs to put on front so the wheels match. As far as I know - S10s always had 5 lug wheels and the 14 bolt GM rears always had 6 or 8 lug wheels. So, I don't know if there is an easy swap to have wheels match, front and back. I considered a 14 bolt for a while but there were a few drawbacks that ended up pushing me to the Toyota 1. Weight - The 14 bolt for my application weighs 550 pounds 2. Width - I think I would have had to cut down the housing/axles to keep the wheels/tires from sticking out of the wheel wells. 3. Non-full floater ( I realize that I could get by with the SF but if a FF is available that weighs less,why not?) Getting the front hubs to accept the Toyota dually wheel is important to me and I will be looking at adapters as an option. I know they have their detractors and they are pricey..... but at this point what's a few hundred dollars more to get what I want I don't know much about Toyota's, as a matter of fact the Uhaul truck was the only one I have ever owned, but I have had a large fleet of S10's over the years and here's what I can tell you about that; Yes all S10's of all years came with 5 bolt wheels. They are also all the same bolt pattern 5 x 4.75. They had different offsets from 2wd to 4wd but thats the only difference The 83 S10 2.8 liter was a gutless wonder even when it came out with fuel injection in 1986 (which is why the 4.3 was developed) My Mirage came with the carbureted 2.8 and it was severely underpowered. I shudder to think about a 21' RV with a 2.8 liter pushing it with an early 700r4 in OD. The upside is that a cottage industry exists to supply parts for ripping them out and replacing them with V8's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Motordome said: The 83 S10 2.8 liter was a gutless wonder even when it came out with fuel injection in 1986 (which is why the 4.3 was developed) My Mirage came with the carbureted 2.8 and it was severely underpowered. I shudder to think about a 21' RV with a 2.8 liter pushing it with an early 700r4 in OD. The upside is that a cottage industry exists to supply parts for ripping them out and replacing them with V8's I had a 1986 4WD S15 Jimmy for years with a TBI 2.8 and a 700R4. It ran fine for what it was. Got 19 MPG on highway runs. Sold it with 180K and engine ran fine, but yes - not a powerhouse. The reality is - I would not expect any engine that small to be powerful - at least not of that vintage. I went from that to a 1995 AWD Astrovan with the 4.3 and CPI injection and the 4L60E. It got a best of 18 MPG and is likely the worse piece of crap I ever owned, including the CPI fuel system. Never any huge mechanical issues other then the fuel injection. Many small problems - almost on a weekly basis. When it comes to V8s - if I wanted one in an RV - I'd have something like a Roadtrek, or a coach-on-frame diesel. Not why I mess with little Toyotas and Datsuns. My main goal is ultimate fuel mileage for travellilng cross country with three people and a dog. I am kind of disappointed with the fuel mileage in my 1988 20 footer with the 2.4 EFI and auto trans. My 1978 Chinook with the 2.2 and 5 speed manual is MUCH better, but it is also MUCH smaller. I've got a dually full-floater in that. I can get 22 MPG with it and I wonder if it would do better is I'd left the original single-tire SF rear in it that it came with OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, jdemaris said: I had a 1986 4WD S15 Jimmy for years with a TBI 2.8 and a 700R4. It ran fine for what it was. Got 19 MPG on highway runs. Sold it with 180K and engine ran fine, but yes - not a powerhouse. The reality is - I would not expect any engine that small to be powerful - at least not of that vintage. I went from that to a 1995 AWD Astrovan with the 4.3 and CPI injection and the 4L60E. It got a best of 18 MPG and is likely the worse piece of crap I ever owned, including the CPI fuel system. Never any huge mechanical issues other then the fuel injection. Many small problems - almost on a weekly basis. When it comes to V8s - if I wanted one in an RV - I'd have something like a Roadtrek, or a coach-on-frame diesel. Not why I mess with little Toyotas and Datsuns. My main goal is ultimate fuel mileage for travellilng cross country with three people and a dog. I am kind of disappointed with the fuel mileage in my 1988 20 footer with the 2.4 EFI and auto trans. My 1978 Chinook with the 2.2 and 5 speed manual is MUCH better, but it is also MUCH smaller. I've got a dually full-floater in that. I can get 22 MPG with it and I wonder if it would do better is I'd left the original single-tire SF rear in it that it came with OEM. That's a lot of power to give up for 1 MPG.... granted you had the worst version of the 4.3 ever made. If you get years made prior to and after their early vortec designs they are some of the most dependable engines GM ever made (at least in my opinion) which is why I chose to go through all of the work to convert my Mirage over to a fuel injected (TBI) 4.3 . I think they offer a nice blend of power/fuel ecomomy and dependability for an application such as this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 i also found an old picture of the original carbed 2.8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I've got no argument about the 4.3 being a rock-solid engine. So is the Chrysler 3.3 and 3.8. All good-old fashioned pushrod engines that are extremely reliable. One could argue that the 4.3 is based on a 61 year-old design and that's a pretty good record. I know of several Winnebago Lesharos that came with 2.2 liter gas engine and got 14 MPG. When changed over to Mopar 3.3 or 3.8s - they had more power and got 15 MPG. Makes a person wonder sometimes about what we really gain with "high tech." Some will argue here that the best Toyota truck engine was the 70s 2.2, then next "not quite as good" the 2.4, and worse yet the 3 liter. Not a Toyota - but I've got a GM badged as a Suzuki XL7. Has the GM "high feature" engine also used in some Cadillacs. 3.6 liter, high compression, four cams, variable valve timing, timing chains all over the place, etc. So, what is the purpose of all this high-tech? It's an AWD and gets 19 MPG on highway runs. My old pushrod 3.8 in my 1998 AWD Grand Caravan gets 21 MPG on the same trips and has all the power I want. I don't get it with why some of this newer stuff is so complex, but with little to no gain. Anyway, I digress. 4.3 sounds like a great swap for that Mirage. I know the Provan Tiger RVs based on Astrovans with 4.3s have been tested at 15-16 MPG and that is better then my 2.4 does in my 1988 Toyota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Not much time this week but at least I think I have all the parts together Shoes Drums Wheel Cylinders Hardware Inner/Outer seals Hub gaskets Pinion seal I started to pull apart the right side today. I got all the way down to the backing plate and gave it a good wire wheeling and a coat of paint. I managed to break a bolt for the e-brake cable mount but I think I can get it out. The bearings looked good so I am just going to repack and reinstall them. Tomorrow I am going to try to get it back together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I did the same with mine before I put in into my 1978 Chinook. I suspect mine was a lot rustier. After finding two Toyota full-floaters in junkyards with rust-holes right through the main housing - I figured I'd better get the rust off and use a good anti-rust treatment. These Toyota and Dyna rear-axle housings look as though they are made of welded-together pieces of scrap-metal. Once slight glitch was the first two small-parts kits I got for the brakes. Each was missing one little extension spring for the brake self-adjuster and I had to get it separate. I also had mixed feelings about keeping the end-tube sealed with that little seal (I got via Beck/Arnley). I have only seen end-tubes sealed on Toyota/Dyna and Datsun full-floaters. Never on a USA axle that I've worked on. Not sure if I like it. I was considering leaving it out (like some others have done) so the bearings got gear-lube. But the fill/check hole in the housing does not seem correct for doing that. So - I said "the heck with it", and put the new seals in and repacked the bearings. I had to cut off the spring perches on mine and move them bit. 1978 frame is more narrow then the 1987 frame the FF came off from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 One correction - to my annotation of the Hotchkiss center-units. The 1978 is 4.11 to 1, while the 1987 is 4.10 to 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 11 hours ago, Motordome said: Not much time this week but at least I think I have all the parts together Shoes Drums Wheel Cylinders Hardware Inner/Outer seals Hub gaskets Pinion seal I started to pull apart the right side today. I got all the way down to the backing plate and gave it a good wire wheeling and a coat of paint. I managed to break a bolt for the e-brake cable mount but I think I can get it out. The bearings looked good so I am just going to repack and reinstall them. Tomorrow I am going to try to get it back together Nice work looking real good you are going to have a nice little Toy home when you are all done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 What is the box-shaped thing with the Andreas Stihl color-scheme? Kind of looks like a generator. If so, I did not know they ever sold one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, jdemaris said: What is the box-shaped thing with the Andreas Stihl color-scheme? Kind of looks like a generator. If so, I did not know they ever sold one. That is the Great Grandfather of the EU series Honda generator. It is from the early to mid 70's and still runs like a Swiss watch. It is only a 400 watt unit but it is only as big as an Igloo lunchbox. One cool feature is the DC out so you can charge your vehicle batteries cordlessly. I haven't run across many things that are as handy Edited July 31, 2016 by Motordome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted July 31, 2016 Author Share Posted July 31, 2016 Made some progress today but not as much as I had hoped. I ended up drilling out my broken bolt in the e-brake cable housing and It took me a while to cobble together a fix for it. The other thing that seemed to take forever was cleaning up the hub.....man that thing was filthy. It is now painted but not dry so I couldn't finish the right side I did however get the new brakes installed Before After Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 I finally had a little time to work on the rear end last night. I managed to get the hub back together and installed. The only problem was the brake drum which was a little reluctant to fit over the hub. After a little sanding I got it to drop in place. Now I need to locate a spring scale to set the preload, then it's on to the other side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 I had an hour to kill today so I popped the axle back in. The preload setting was kind of a pain with the new drum and shoes dragging a bit but I think I got it within spec. One interesting discovery was an axle seal I found on the axle itself. This was odd because I had already taken one out of the tube. The maintenance guy at U-haul must have been hungover that day. At any rate one side down,one to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Crazy meticulous work. That thing looks brand new. Were going to love watching this project. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 (edited) Thanks Linda, I'm painfully slow but thorough Yesterday I ordered the replacement spring perches from Ruffstuff Specialties. They specialize in suspension parts for off-roaders. The perches will need to be moved inboard 1/2" per side as well as ground to fit the additional gusseting on the Toyota tube. One handy feature is the adjustable center hole which gives me a shot at getting the driveshaft to fit without additional work. Edited August 7, 2016 by Motordome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 So far this week I have been able to pull apart the left side and get it cleaned up and painted. This side had a leaky wheel cylinder so the clean up was way more time consuming than the other side My spring perches showed up today and one of them fit like a glove and the other..well,not so much. I have an email into the company,we'll see how they handle it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 GUESS WHAT... somewhere there is a fella with a set of spring perches that look just like your set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 15 minutes ago, WME said: GUESS WHAT... somewhere there is a fella with a set of spring perches that look just like your set lol, you're probably right. I am hoping I get to keep the wrong one so I can use it to set up my welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 What happened to the original spring perches? (maybe I missed it somewhere in the posts). I find using a spring-scale to set the bearings a waste of time and too subject to erroneous readings. In the end - all Toyota wants is zero end-play. No end-play and no to little preload. That's why in the Toyota manual - at the end - it says there should be no "axial play." So, it seems they are admitting that even with the spring-scale use - it may be wrong when done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 9 hours ago, jdemaris said: What happened to the original spring perches? (maybe I missed it somewhere in the posts). I find using a spring-scale to set the bearings a waste of time and too subject to erroneous readings. In the end - all Toyota wants is zero end-play. No end-play and no to little preload. That's why in the Toyota manual - at the end - it says there should be no "axial play." So, it seems they are admitting that even with the spring-scale use - it may be wrong when done. The original spring perches are still welded to the axle tube...but not for long As far as setting the preload on the wheel bearings is concerned I followed the Toyota manual to the extent possible,right wrong or in between. I have come to realize that the guys that built whatever I'm working on know more about it than I do. Yes I am sure there are shortcuts (as with most things) but I am also sure I haven't worked on enough Toyota axles to know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Good news/Bad news Bad news; I had to work all weekend doing a side job for project fundraising which left me very little time for the rear end Good news; The side job is done and the fundraising was enough to secure a set of Vantra's Good news; My replacement spring perch showed up on Friday Good news; I managed to get a little work done on the rear end tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 On 8/11/2016 at 7:38 PM, Motordome said: The original spring perches are still welded to the axle tube...but not for long As far as setting the preload on the wheel bearings is concerned I followed the Toyota manual to the extent possible,right wrong or in between. I have come to realize that the guys that built whatever I'm working on know more about it than I do. Yes I am sure there are shortcuts (as with most things) but I am also sure I haven't worked on enough Toyota axles to know them. Not really a "shortcut. " Just what I'll call something "missing" from the Toyota tech manual. Note that the factory manual says that when all done with the spring-scale settings - you MUST check for axial play and make sure there is none . What the manual does NOT mention is what to do if there IS axial play. Simple answer is - just tighten until you hit zero - like any adjustable cup-and-cone bearing setup on near any truck, front or back axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 I got the other side buttoned up today as well as the installation of a new pinion seal. Tomorrow I am going to start working on the spring perches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 If you aren't aware the E-brake cable may need some jiggling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 11 hours ago, WME said: If you aren't aware the E-brake cable may need some jiggling Jiggling? I was thinking of spraying them down with some penetrating oil but I still need to figure out how to splice them into the S10 e-brake system. I have read that there are crimping tools available for boat rigging that will work but I haven't done a ton of research on it yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Did you have any trouble with the crush-collar on the pinion? I bought three for mine before I could find one that was correct. Even then, I was amazed at how much torque it took to crush it. I had a 3/4 drive rachet with a three foot pipe on it to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 I started working on the spring perches this afternoon, The first thing I needed to do was reprimand my security detail for sleeping on the job Next up was to fabricate a jig for the leaf spring dowels. I started out with a straight piece of birch and laid out the holes. Once I got it right I added the offset pieces and finally cut out the center. Surprisingly it is accurate to within .25 mm I cut off the old perch with a recip saw and started grinding away Tomorrow I am going to pick up some weld through primer and see if I cant get one perch welded in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 6 hours ago, jdemaris said: Did you have any trouble with the crush-collar on the pinion? I bought three for mine before I could find one that was correct. Even then, I was amazed at how much torque it took to crush it. I had a 3/4 drive rachet with a three foot pipe on it to do the job. I didn't remove the pinion just the nut. I marked it's location and took it off with an impact,replaced the seal,pinion nut and finally recrimped it with a chisel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motordome Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 Today started by running around to four different stores to track down a can of primer. Finally Auto Value found me a can and I made it back to the shop around noon I used a contour gauge to get the general shape of the tube and started grinding away on my spindle sander I ended up removing quite a bit of material to get it to fit I leveled the tube and set the pinion angle After a couple coats of primer it was finally ready to weld. I welded each side in two passes from the top down and let it cool down in between beads. It looked a little crappy where the two welds met but as they say, "If you can't be a good welder at least be a good grinder". One down and one to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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