What To Do? Head Gasket

[notsobigkahuna]

My 89 v6 with 111k km on it has a slight head gasket oil leak. Started last winter on my way back from Florida. Options include:-
1) oil is cheap
2) fix the side with the leak.
3) fix both sides, with timing belt and water pump. $2500 + -

Ideas?

Kahuna in Kanada

[notsobigkahuna]

I'm 30k away from the scheduled belt/ pump.

[WME]

Sure its the head gasket and not something else?

[notsobigkahuna]

Yes, I had it checked out.

[WME]

Keep an eye on it, and go with #1

[DanAatTheCape]

If it is truly a head gasket that engine would not be running very well.

Assuming it is running good - I vote for option #1

[jjrbus]

I'm with WME #1. I have seen several people that keep a piece of drywall/plaster board under the motor area to soak up dripping oil. Jester

[MontanaChinook]

So it's one of those more rare external leaks, rather than an internal leak? I don't know if one is necessarily better than the other, but maybe external is better.

I had an external coolant leak from my headgasket a while back. It's a scary place to have a leak. And one of those things...could be fine for thousands and thousands of miles. But if it fails...you're stranded. My engine performance didn't suffer at all with my leak. I know that typically a headgasket leak gets detected by poor engine performance before you actually notice any fluid loss. But some of the external leaks don't seem to cause this. You aren't loosing compression and you aren't mixing oil and coolant, or burning coolant etc.

For me it would depend on how I use the camper. If I'm all over the country in it, I don't mess around. I fix things before they strand me. If it's just a weekend warrior vehicle...I'd probably let it slide and just watch it really close.

[notsobigkahuna]

It runs like a top.

[notsobigkahuna]

I've been reading about oil leaks on these 3.0 engines. I haven't seen one reference to a head gasket oil leak.

[MontanaChinook]

You won't see many references to external head gasket leaks of any kind with any Toyota engine. They don't seem to be very common. It's almost always an internal leak, and probably a lot of people have them...and only notice them when they get bad enough that performance issues start to pop up.

I got some confused responses when I asked about my external coolant leak. But a couple people had exeperienced them.

If we can assume your mechanic didn't make a mistake, then I guess you're just lucky enough to have a rare problem

[notsobigkahuna]

I'm not sure I like being the trailblazer with these things.

[WME]

Clean the engine very good, pour some black-light engine oil dye. Drive it a bit and check it at night with a black light. You would be surprised at how far oil will flow from the point of the leak.

[DanAatTheCape]

The VZ3E has heads that are bi-directional. Since the camshaft goes out one end a plug is used on the other end. The plugs are sealed with RTV and are prone to leak. Oil travels....

I would clean the engine then start looking.

[linda s]

He's in Canada. Could it be a leaking freeze plug? Get's cold in Canada

Linda S

[notsobigkahuna]

Hey Linda, would that not be a coolant leak?

[linda s]

Hey Linda, would that not be a coolant leak?

Yeah. Too many groups and too many topics. Sometimes I get mixed up

Linda S

[notsobigkahuna]

I emailed one of those online toyota parts places. the short of it is that the valve grind kit is NLA. The engine rebuild kit is and is $192 which i assume is the valve grind kit +. Toyota no longer has new water pumps and they don't sell a timing belt kit per se. Is there a company that sells a known to be good timing belt kit with pump for my 89 V6? 

Thanks, Kahuna

[Derek up North]

Like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GATES-89-92-Toyota-Pickup-3-0L-V6-Timing-Belt-Water-Pump-Kit-TCKWP-OE-Engine-tz-/301226053773?hash=item462278d08d:g:cE8AAOSwnDZT14JI&vxp=mtr

[zero]

Rock Auto sells and OEM timing belt and component kit for $196.  Belt, tensioners, idlers, water pump, etc.   Aisin is the company that made them OEM for Toyota.  Part # TKT032 with oil cooler and TKT014 without oil cooler.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1993,pickup,3.0l+v6,1277995,engine,timing+belt+&+component+kit,5759

[notsobigkahuna]

i see a lot of the kits state 'hydraulic belt tensioner'   Is this what an 89 has?  by the way, there is one of those online toyota parts places that has OE engine rebuild kits for $200C, they don't have any more valve grind kits left so they are substituting engine rebuild kits.  

[Jaunt]

i'd be willing to bet it's leaking down from the valve covers or somewhere else.

if you do indeed have a headgasket problem there really is no cheap solution to fix it, please never pour any 'head gasket sealer' or any other crap like that in your engine.

[Derek up North]

3 hours ago, notsobigkahuna said:

... there is one of those online toyota parts places that has OE engine rebuild kits for $200C, they don't have any more valve grind kits left so they are substituting engine rebuild kits.  

I assume you're talking about gasket sets?

http://www.toyotaoempartswarehouse.com/oe-toyota/0411265018

http://www.toyotaoempartswarehouse.com/oe-toyota/0411165018

Are you talking about $200 Canadian? Seems a bargain.

[DanAatTheCape]

I think I read "head gasket" leak,   and engine runs good.....   hmmm

 

MY guess is we are really talking about a small oil leak - since VZ3E's are notorious for valve cover leaks,,,,   that would be my first guess. 

[notsobigkahuna]

I had the valve cover gaskets replaced. Took it to Florida and back. Oil leak started, took it in. They cleaned the engine and said it's coming from the head. Yes, I meant engine rebuild gasket set. 

[DanAatTheCape]

14 hours ago, notsobigkahuna said:

I had the valve cover gaskets replaced. Took it to Florida and back. Oil leak started, took it in. They cleaned the engine and said it's coming from the head. Yes, I meant engine rebuild gasket set. 

if your engine is running good, I suspect they are full of crap.  valve cover gaskets are notorious on the VZ3E engines.  

[Derek up North]

Give the engine a good steam clean or pressure wash then with a can of brake cleaner in the area where it's leaking. Powder it down with baby powder from Dollarama and then run the engine for a while. The baby powder should make it pretty easy to spot where the leak originates. If not, at least your engine will smell nice!

[payaso del mar]

Kahuna, I think Dan is right.  the things that can leak at your head gasket junction are compression (140+ psi compression pressure and more than that on power stroke); coolant (up to 15 psi) and oil....there are only a couple of the oil passages that are pressurized....most are just oil drains, to let it return to oil pan from head componentry.  the odds of non-pressurized oil making it past the head gasket if it's not leaking compression or coolant are not high.  putting it another way, if you don't know when your valve cover gaskets (and associated bolt grommets etc) have been replaced, you should do those before trying to do much more on diagnosing an oil leak.

I haven't ever bothered with the baby powder....not least, the smell of the stuff makes me sneeze!  but yeah, degreaser and a trip to the quartersucker car wash will make it pretty easy to spot where the leak is coming from.  small mirrors from the dollastore are often helpful in spotting up underneath stuff.

[notsobigkahuna]

Ok , I like the sounds of this. When I had the valve cover gaskets done (felpro) I was days away from leaving for FLA from Canada. One of the valve covers had some minor damage to the underside flange, the mechanic thought some sealant could do the trick. I should have written down what side that was. i'm reading that sometimes the valve covers can warp. 

[DanAatTheCape]

On 2016-05-17 at 9:28 PM, notsobigkahuna said:

I had the valve cover gaskets replaced. Took it to Florida and back. Oil leak started, took it in. They cleaned the engine and said it's coming from the head. Yes, I meant engine rebuild gasket set. 

I would also consider how much oil we are talking about.    Putting cardboard under neath to measure, looking to see where oil is accumulating (wet areas), smelling oil burning on exhaust etc.   Also checking  oil quantity on a cold engine parked level, day after day - looking to see how much the oil quantity is dropping.    

How often oil has to be added.

Carb cleaner is what I use to clean engines - wallie world has it for $1.99 and each can has  a spray straw so you can somewhat direct in to tight spaces.

One issue with the VZ3E is that the plenum makes the passenger side of the engine hard to access.

 

If you are having to add a lot of oil I would probably consider it a nuisance and hold off any repairs.   Sometimes oil leaks "fix" themselves  - a small leak can gum itself up,  not that I would count on it. 

Someone mentioned the plug on the end of the valve covers - they are notorious for leaking too.   Usually valve cover leaks are at the ends too.  Worth mentioning, that "just fixed" valve gaskets do sometimes leak

[payaso del mar]

be SURE to wear eye protection when spraying carb cleaner, esp from below.  that crap loves to spray back (due to pressure it's canned at, I suspect) and it burns bad in eyes and don't help skin.  carcinogenic too.  but yeah, it does the job.  brake cleaner spray is similar but a little easier on paint etc.

[notsobigkahuna]

I've never had to add oil. 

[DanAatTheCape]

On 5/17/2016 at 9:28 PM, notsobigkahuna said:

I had the valve cover gaskets replaced. Took it to Florida and back. Oil leak started, took it in. They cleaned the engine and said it's coming from the head. Yes, I meant engine rebuild gasket set. 

if you are not having to add oil,  you must not have much of an oil leak.  

to get a good idea of consumption/ loss, you do need to check it with the vehicle level & engine cold - repeatedly.

[notsobigkahuna]

Just got back from a 3700 km trip to Tybee island / savannah and back. I still have the oil leak, but after 5500 km or so I still don't have to add oil, it's down 1/16" or so on the dipstick. Need to change oil now. Oil isn't really even dirty. Hot oil spots look worse than they are... 

I'd still like to get the oil leak fixed. I'm at 115 k km now, book says to do timing belt and water pump at 144k. I think I'll get it done sooner rather than later. I'm sure that belt is 27 years old.

kahuna in Kanada 

[Derek up North]

2 minutes ago, notsobigkahuna said:

... book says to do timing belt and water pump at 144k.

What book is that? The only thing I've seen is the Toyota FSM and Owners Manual and the say 60k miles (96k km) for a (V6) timing belt. But you've an '86, don't you? No timing belt on the 22R-E.