Disgusting Problem

[DanRT66]

As preface: I was on a 7-week trip this summer, almost always hooked up to city water. There was always water in the fresh tank, but I used and refilled it several times. I never used fresh tank water for drinking or cooking - just for washing dishes and hands and the occasional shower. Recently, I replaced the gray and black tank valves, so those tanks have been repeatedly flushed and emptied over the past few weeks. Plus, I only put liquids in the toilet all summer, if that matters.

So: today, after draining and bypassing the water heater, I blew out the water lines with compressed air. There was very little water left. What was left, I drained into a white plastic flat bin - I'd say about a quart or so altogether. As I was finishing up, I noticed some little dark particles in the bin. Upon closer inspection, I saw that they were moving. Some sort of little bitty worms, or some damn vile thing. That's the photo, with a penny tossed in for scale.

Though I wasn't planning to add anti-freeze to the system, I thought perhaps I'd see if the anti-freeze, alone or with additives, might have effect on the little buggers. To the water in the bin, I added a couple capfuls of household bleach. No effect. After a few minutes, I added a few ounces of RV anti-freeze, then left them sit about fifteen minutes. Nope. Added several ounces more bleach. They were looking very sluggish when I checked again so, by way of administering a coup de grace, I tossed in a few ounces of 70% isopropyl alcohol. Well, this gave the spawn of hell a new lease on life, apparently. They've now been swimming around in this chemical soup for over half an hour, and don't seem at all unhappy.

*&^#%&!

Anyone have any ideas about this? I searched the archives of the Toyota groups to which I belong, and the only reference to "worms" invariably followed "can of" or "bag of", in neither case literal examples. I'm sort of thinking the worms were developing in the bottom of the fresh tank which, though exercised all summer, hasn't been used for about a month and a half and was never fully empty until today. But I don't have any ideas. If you do, I would seriously love to hear them. Eek.

Thanks,

Dan

[DanRT66]

Update: all the little bastards now seem approximately dead. Unless someone has a better idea or can say why this is a disastrous one, I'm thinking now that I may add a few gallons of water and a couple gallons of bleach to the fresh water tank, pump it through the system and let it sit for a few hours, then flush it all out for a long time, blow the lines again, and winterize with anti-freeze.

[Totem]

I would have poured a pot of my wifes cooking in there. they would be dead for sure.

[jjrbus]

In a previous motorhome I had installed a new freshwater tank and plumbing, I still would not drink the water from it or use it for cooking. Bottled or boiled water only! Nobody knows what is coming out of those campground faucets or wells.

Bleach long time in the tank is better than large volume for short period of time! The hose needs to be treated first. We need to know the volume of the hose, which I am not going to try and figure out. Take about a gallon of water and mix about 1 cup of bleach in it. Drain the hose and pour mixture into it, having the hose so that the mixture will not run out, leave overnight. Any mixture left pour into gravity feed. (I do not know how big your hose is) not enough mixture add some water to hose.

Next hookup hose to motor home and to spigot and turn on water pushing bleach mixture into holding tank. turn on water pump and open faucets until you are satisfied that bleach is in i each line and water pump. Then let set at least overnight, I would leave for a day in your situation, might even use a quart or so, depending on my mood. Bleach is harsh on everything, but better harsh than sick!

There is no exact procedure for this, get the bleach in the lines, tank and hose and let set. Try to get the holding tank as full as possible, even driving around to slosh it all over if you can't get it completely full Emergency charts call for 1 teaspoon of bleach per 10 gallon of water for emergency purification of water. I never knew exactly how much to use so probably over did it. But longer time is better than large volume.

I carried bleach, when ever I hooked up I put a couple ounces in the hose before hooking it to the faucet.

Thanks for posting, will make some think about it. Not to be thought of as expert advice, just the way I do it. Jim

[DanRT66]

Jim, thanks for the thoughtful reply and your suggestions. I hadn't thought of the hose, which is always coiled and connected to itself when not connecting the RV to a water supply. So I'll start there as you suggest and proceed with probably quite a large amount of bleach mixed with water in the fresh tank, and pumped out to all the lines and holding tanks to sit for a couple days.

Dan

[linda s]

The standard for water tanks is to treat them with bleach at least once a year to disinfect. I use 1 cup bleach for my 20 gallon tank. Let it sit for a couple of days and empty and rinse a couple times before filling it with water I use for anything. That would kill you little bugs pretty quick

Linda S

[DanRT66]

Thanks Linda.

[snail powered]

As preface: I was on a 7-week trip this summer, almost always hooked up to city water. There was always water in the fresh tank, but I used and refilled it several times. I never used fresh tank water for drinking or cooking - just for washing dishes and hands and the occasional shower. Recently, I replaced the gray and black tank valves, so those tanks have been repeatedly flushed and emptied over the past few weeks. Plus, I only put liquids in the toilet all summer, if that matters.

I tossed in a few ounces of 70% isopropyl alcohol. Well, this gave the spawn of hell a new lease on life, apparently. They've now been swimming around in this chemical soup for over half an hour, and don't seem at all unhappy.

Thanks,

Dan

so you got those worms happy and drunk on alcohol? What a good host you were . Of course this story is also a good Halloween tale too We were needing a bit of the macrbe besides the common rat issues...worms, that will do it. Bat tales anyone?

[jjrbus]

Actually on my last motor home a little bat had holed up under the entrance door handle. Out in the country, dark, It was a great test for the old ticker Jim SW FL

[DanRT66]

[Ctgriffi]

Actually on my last motor home a little bat had holed up under the entrance door handle. Out in the country, dark, It was a great test for the heart Jim SW FL

Enjoyed this little anecdote, Jim, but wish you had ended it with... a great test for the old ticker.

[jjrbus]

Done!

[DanAatTheCape]

Before you go wild with the bleach, consider that a lot of bleach can destroy plastic. I would use something like the procedure outlined in a 92 itasca spirit manual. Also consider that if it freezes where you store your camper the winter ought to take care of them.....

[DanRT66]

Thanks. My high degree of revulsion at the sight of the worms counterbalanced a commensurate amount of concern for plastic items. I used a few cups of bleach in a full tank, ran all the faucets and toilets, drove it around for a bit, and will let it sit for a couple days before draining, rinsing thoroughly, blowing the lines out again, and winterizing with a bit of RV anti-freeze.

[jjrbus]

I would likely do the same thing, I would rather have degraded plastic than lay in the hospital because of some water borne disease. If I am alive I can replace the pump impeller!

The regular adding of small amounts of bleach to the system is good insurance. Google shows one teaspoon is good for 5 gal of water, so for our 20 gal system plus the hot water tank and hose and plumbing, 5 teaspoon is what I will be adding on a regular basis. I will mix it with 1 gal of water before adding, I don't think that straight bleach is the best idea. On the other hand bleach comes in a plastic bottle!

Jim

[DanRT66]

Jim,

Great observation and good suggestion. I'll plan on doing that next season. Thanks.

[mustrmrk]

In our sailboat, we would add a couple of tablespoons to 60 gallons in our drinking water tanks every time we filled them with shore water. We had a 5 micron carbon activated whole house filter under the sink, and never had an issue with chlorine odor. Most of the time when out of the US we used our reverse osmosis watermaker, so didn't use bleach and had no issues with water quality.

One thing to be aware of - aluminum tanks don't like bleach - and your hot water tank is likely made of aluminum. A high concentration of bleach sitting in your hot water tank for a long time can damage it. Peggy Hall is an excellent source of information regarding boat odors and water system cleaning - her nickname is "The Headmistress":

From PEGGIE HALL’S LIBRARY OF CLASSICS (http://trudelutt.com/linker/phall_freshwater.pdf)

Fresh Water Maintenance

Most fresh water system problems - foul odor or taste - don’t originate in the tank, but in the plumbing, which is
an ideal environment for molds, fungi and bacteria that thrive in damp dark places. Here’s the recommended
method for recommissioning fresh water systems; this should be done at least annually.

lst Fill the water tank with a solution of 3/4 dl. of household bleach per 10 litre tank capacity.
2nd Turn on every faucet on the boat (including a deck wash if you have one).
3rd Allow the water to run until what’s coming out smells strongly of bleach.
4th Turn off the faucets, but leave system pressurized so the solution remains in the lines.
5th Let stand overnight - at least hours - but NO LONGER THAN 24 HOURS.
6th Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven’t done this in a while, it’s a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, ‘coz what’s likely to come out will clog them).
7th Fill the tank again with fresh water only
8th Drain again through every faucet on the boat, repeating till the water runs clean and smells and tastes clean.

Remember: cleaning out the tank addresses only the least of the problem ... most of the problem occurs in the lines, so it’s very important to leave the system pressurized while the bleach solution is in the tank to keep the solution in the lines too.

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. Nevertheless, it’s a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach in a few gallons of water before putting it into either a stainless or aluminum tank.

People have also expressed concern about the possible damage by the rubber and neoprene parts in a water pump. Again, the cumulative effect of putting chlorinated water through the pump is more damaging than an occasional "shock treatment". Occasionally, water pumps have been known to fail after recommissioning, but they’ve always been older pumps; recommissioning only "pushed ‘em over the edge" a month or so sooner than they’d have failed anyway - which I consider preferable to finding yourself without water during the second week of a 3 week cruise.

To keep the water system cleaner longer; USE your fresh water ... keep water flowing through the system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren’t being used. Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first ... the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you don’t want to transfer water that’s been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat’s system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that’s been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.

[DanRT66]

Lots of information, thank you! My water heater is bypassed and drained, so no issues with bleach concentration there.