notsobigkahuna Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I have an 86 toyota slumber queen, 126k km. runs great, no problem. Seems to have a small oil leak, not enough to show on the dip stick but there is some oil being thrown around the engine compartment and on to the inside of the hood. Any ideas where I should start looking? Thanks in advance. Kahuna in Kanada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Give the engine a good cleaning, let it dry and then sprinkle with Dollar Store baby powder. Start the engine and the fresh leaking oil source will be a lot easier to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Most likely the front crank seal very common 22RE leak. It's not a bad job you'll need the crank and oil pump seals. Have a good look around the front of the engine near the fan belts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 never seen it on a Toyota but oil sending units sometimes leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 Thanks, that's exactly where the problem appears to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you have to replace the front oil seal you may want to change the oil pump at the same time. The pump must be removed to access the seal. Many aftermarket oil pumps come with the new seal included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 the truck only has 125k km which is only 78 k miles. i can't imagine it needs a new pump? i see that there is an O ring on a bolt related to the oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 My Chinook supposedly had only 50,000 miles. It needed a lot...It's not just miles that wear an engine down, but also age. Those seals are almost 30 years old. It's not that it necessarily needs an oil pump. It's that if you do this job, you're right there. I think you might even take the oil pump off (?). So why not replace it while you're there, rather than waiting for it to go out? They aren't much more than $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Thanks, that's exactly where the problem appears to be. Front and rear crank seal leaks can also be caused by non-working PCV systems in gas engines and CDR valves in diesels. Might want to check your PCV and make sure your crankcase is not pressurized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odyssey 4x4 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 After driving my Escaper about 500 miles before I rebuilt the engine, I developed a nasty oil leak at the front crank seal. Luckily I was able to keep the oil topped off for the remaining drive home. The seal is cheap and not too hard of a fix, change the pump too. You'll be kicking yourself if you change just the seal and the pump goes out sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 So you did your front main seal? I replaced my oil pump when I did my water pump. The water pump bearing was going, so I figured I'd just do the oil pump while I was there. It was fine for almost a year, but on this big trip it has started to leak. Or maybe it's my front main...I'm not sure if there's a way to tell just by looking. Anyway, I figure if I had done the oil pump incorrectly it wouldn't have taken a year to start leaking. So maybe it's my front main? I'll look it up at some point, but once you get the oil pump off, what's involved in doing the front main seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Did you change the "crankshaft seal" (better known as front oil seal) when you did your oil pump? That's the only seal you'll find there. It often comes with many rebuilt oil pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yes, the oil pump o ring? It did come with the new oil pump. I ordered it from Rock Auto and it was an Aisin pump. It seemed to be in place correctly when I put the pump on. I kind of figure if something was really off with how I did it, it would have leaked immediately and not waited a year, but I really don't know. I probably put 4,000 miles on the truck before I noticed there was some oil building up down there. Probably I didn't line up one of the two gaskets well enough. Or maybe I did it all right...and it's my front main leaking. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yes, the oil pump o ring? It did come with the new oil pump. I ordered it from Rock Auto and it was an Aisin pump. It seemed to be in place correctly when I put the pump on. I kind of figure if something was really off with how I did it, it would have leaked immediately and not waited a year, but I really don't know. I probably put 4,000 miles on the truck before I noticed there was some oil building up down there. Probably I didn't line up one of the two gaskets well enough. Or maybe I did it all right...and it's my front main leaking. I don't know. Your pump has an o-ring that fits into a recessed groove on the chain cover assembly. Your front oil seal sits behind the crank pulley, recessed into the front of the oil pump. It sounds like the seal may have failed. You only need to get some grit in there during reassembly to have the seal wear prematurely. Also, check the torque on the crank pulley bolt. If you didn't get it right the first time, it may have loosened allowing some oil to sneek by the seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Interesting. Ok, thanks. Well, I'll be back in Montana in July/August and I'll have places I can spread out feel at home. I may just put a new oil pump on while I'm there. Maybe look into doing the front main seal also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 I'm taking the crank off tomorrow, just to be sure, it is a right thread right? I ordered the oil pump o ring from toyota, wow, rip off. Will replace it too, and the little o ring under the one bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Is there any way to 'see' wear on an oil pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 They talk of rtv on one of the oil pump bolts? Is that instead of the little o ring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 They talk of rtv on one of the oil pump bolts? Is that instead of the little o ring? No. Actually I think it's 2 or 3 bolts (20R). I have no "little" o-ring, only bolts. Big o-ring goes on the back of the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Is there any way to 'see' wear on an oil pump? You can check clearance with a feeler gage. Pumps are cheap enough, just replace the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 the end of the pulley that goes in the front seal can sometimes wear also.. I believe there is a sleeve kit for that but I have never used one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well the pump is probably the last thing to go bad it is the part with all the oil. It is a simple gear pump. It's up to the owner but if it were mine I would not replacement it just because. Bear in mind the back side of where the pump gears run is the timing case it is aluminum lot softer than steel gears and you wouldn't replace that just because.I guess I have seen too many 22RE engines with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. You would be crazy not to replace the pump "O" ring with the seal all though you can replace the seal with out removing the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well the pump is probably the last thing to go bad it is the part with all the oil. It is a simple gear pump. It's up to the owner but if it were mine I would not replacement it just because. Bear in mind the back side of where the pump gears run is the timing case it is aluminum lot softer than steel gears and you wouldn't replace that just because.I guess I have seen too many 22RE engines with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. You would be crazy not to replace the pump "O" ring with the seal all though you can replace the seal with out removing the pump. I agree. In my case the seal was locked into the pump.(original I'm sure). I was fearful of scratching the crankshaft mating surface when it wouldn't release with a seal puller. I just pulled the whole pump as I planned to replace it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 No. Actually I think it's 2 or 3 bolts (20R). I have no "little" o-ring, only bolts. Big o-ring goes on the back of the pump. There is a big bolt that is vertical, it has a seal under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Hmm...why am I not able to picture a vertical bolt? Well, if it's the one I'm thinking of, it's not something you need to even touch. The only bolts holding the oil pump on all go into the engine from the front. If you are doing this job get a manual or look up the specific instructions. Each bolt has its place. Some are longer than others. At least one of them needs sealant on it (and it's not that top "bolt" that you don't even need to touch). Ask specific questions if you have them, and remember that posting a photo of what you're talking about pretty much immediately clears up all confusion, at least as far as knowing we're all talking about the same thing. A picture is worth a thousand words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 There is a big bolt that is vertical, it has a seal under it. That I believe is the pump relief valve. There is no reason to be removing that at all. There is a valve and spring inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 There is a big bolt that is vertical, it has a seal under it. That is the pressure release valve has a big spring under it be careful if you want to take it apart. It's a copper washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 U can change the oil pump seal without removing the pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 U can change the oil pump seal without removing the pump?Yes you can. It will require a "chain wrench" among other things.Not something you want to tackle unless your pretty good with tools. Easiest way is with a vehicle lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'll be interested to look at this again when I get around to mine. From what I remember, there is a paper gasket around the edge of the pump (or is that wrong? maybe I'm thinking of the water pump?) and then the oil pump o-ring. I thought the o-ring sat in a recess, only accessible when you got the pump off? But I've only done this job once, so I don't remember well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 U can change the oil pump seal without removing the pump? No just the crank seal but it's much easier to remove the pump I'll be interested to look at this again when I get around to mine. From what I remember, there is a paper gasket around the edge of the pump (or is that wrong? maybe I'm thinking of the water pump?) and then the oil pump o-ring. I thought the o-ring sat in a recess, only accessible when you got the pump off? But I've only done this job once, so I don't remember well enough. No paper on the pump but you are right it does have an "O" ring in a groove on the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Ok, see this is what I was worried about. Terms are being thrown around...we've got oil pump seal, oil pump o-ring, crank seal, front main seal. I'm not sure we're all on the same page as to what we're talking about and so unintentional "bad" advice may be given out... Can we standardize some terms here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigkahuna Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 UPDATE: ok, my buddy (the real mechanic) and I got the job finished today. We had a hell of a time getting the crank bolt out. Tried impact, tried jamming the pulley with a drift. Nada. Shazam, there's a a plastic inspection cover for the ring gear! We jammed the flywheel and got that bolt out. The old seal basically fell out. It was hard as hell and had a rip in it. New one in, new belts, back together. Going to clean it and run it tomorrow and make sure the leak is gone. Kahuna in Kanada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Great! Jammed the flywheel? Well, glad that worked for you... I've always put it in gear, e-brake on, chock the wheels. With a 2-3 ft extension on my wrench, all it took was some serious pulling on the end of the breaker bar and they always came free. But yeah, it's a big, high torque bolt for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Great! Jammed the flywheel? Well, glad that worked for you... I've always put it in gear, e-brake on, chock the wheels. With a 2-3 ft extension on my wrench, all it took was some serious pulling on the end of the breaker bar and they always came free. But yeah, it's a big, high torque bolt for a reason. This is what a "chain wrench" is designed for. It locks the crank pulley in place so your can remove the bolt. Jamming anything into the flywheel or its teeth can become very expensive if you bend or damage something. Most loan-a-tool programs have chain wrenches in their inventory. Why take a chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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