Selling, How Do I Price It?

[Gatorbob]

I just started the selling process. East Coast near Baltimore. There seems to be a very good market based on the number of views, and calls I'm getting at $22900. I had one test drive that seemed extremely impressed with the condition. (waiting his offer now.) How do you put a value on a very good condition 1986 Sunrader? The market has more Sunraders that "need TLC" in the $4k-$7k range than very good condition Sunraders. I bought it last year for almost $4k thinking it only needed $5k in work. Like a house, I should have doubled my estimate as the repair cost quickly rose to $12k.

Are Sunraders considered Classic? Collectable? or Historic? I did my research before purchase. I have found sales as high as $30k. in the last year. I don't know of an RV on the market that gets 18 MPG, 4 cylinder and sleeps 4 in an average parking space.

I enjoyed every minute of the restoration and camping. I was extremely impressed with the knowledge that came from this group of owners. To me, that alone adds value. So what are your ideas as to pricing?

Thanks in advance.

[Nicehobbits]

Wow !! ....

Did you say $22k

Good luck

[Gatorbob]

So your saying a very good is worth as much as a poor condition?

[linda s]

Well in 10 years looking at Toyota motorhomes and actively searching for good ones for people I have never seen a single one go for 30 grand. I have seen later model v6 Sunraders sell in the 20's but never a 4 cylinder unless it was a 4x4. It does look very nice and I guess it can't hurt to start high.

Linda S

[Gatorbob]

Found an 18 ft 4x4 sold in Aug 2013 for $19k with 135k miles, Found on ebay a 21 ft v6 with 64k miles sold Sep 22 2013 for $15,200. Found an active listing for 18 ft 4x4 22RE 5 speed today listed at $27,500. with 22k miles.

Maybe the prices are going up as there are fewer to be found?

[MontanaChinook]

4x4 sellers will ask ridiculous prices because they know some wealthy person will buy them if they're nice enough. 4x4 RV somehow boosts them to some fairy land status when someone who knows nothing about motorhomes sees them.

I don't pay attention to later model prices, and I'm absolutely not qualified to tell you what to sell it for...but if I were looking for an 86 Sunrader in good condition I wouldn't be looking at anything over $10,000. But that's me. I see really nice stock early 80s 4x4 Toyota pickups sell for $10k + on eBay sometimes. That same truck would sell for $3-5k locally. Which is what they're worth, in my mind.

So...if you get it out to the right audience....it's worth whatever someone's willing to pay for it.

Unless I did a complete restore on my Chinook, I know it's only worth a few hundred more than a fairly nice original Chinook, even though I've put thousands into it.

So I say good luck and I hope you get what you're asking. If I were looking for a mid-80s Sunrader, I wouldn't pay more than 10k. But clearly I'm not your target audience.

[fred heath]

Speaking for myself, I've got more $ into mine than I'd ever get back on a resale. With these types of projects, you will never get back what you invest. (labor + money).

Good luck with your sale. Fred

[linda s]

The 4x4's are a whole different market and they have always sold really high. So few of them out there. Lots of 21ft Sunraders on the other hand. I would think that if you could get as much as that v6 one that sold you would be doing great. By the way that $27,000 dollar Sunrader 4x4 never sold and it is not currently listed anywhere that I know of. We do have a new member here who just paid 22,000 for a turbo 4x4 and Timmy paid 25,000 for a 4x4 v6 Odyssey but like I said 4x4's are in a different ball park. My girlfriend Gail is currently refurbishing a Sunrader identical to yours. She is a highly regarded toyota motorhome refurbisher and gets the highest prices I have seen for these motorhomes. Just have to wait and see what she gets for the one like yours but not till next year. It might go to 15 grand

Linda S

[stamar]

if you were trying to get that much try in the middle of july.

I dont understand how it could even possible be worth that much considering what you could buy for those dollars.

But that doesnt mean there isnt someone out there that wants one.

I dont think this is the type of vehicle that will sell on car auctions for 100,000 someday if thats what you mean.

I do think if there is one that might be a classic it is 18 foot sunrader.

[waiter]

The correct price is the one that the buyer and seller agree on.

I've had several people inquire about mine (currently for sale at $6,500) and they state they can buy an 88 for under 4k. I say yes, you can. Now start looking at what your going to get for the 4k vs the 6.5k.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto (For Sale)

[douglitas]

I wish I had "waited" until I saw waiter's unit for sale. we bought our 87 Seabreeze last year for $5500. it had 36000 mi. We have sunk about $3000 into the rehab but now it's got dual batteries, solar panel, rebuilt heater, cab air, new alt., isolater, radiator, water pump, thermostat, awning, shower valve, coach water pump and custom overdrive override cancellation switch. now up to 38,000 mi. we get about 13 mpg. could we get $9000 for it?

[waiter]

Doug, sounds like you got a good deal. I think if you can get one in good mechanical condition, (I call it good bones) then you can go from their. technology has changed in 25 years,

This is a bad time of the year to sell. I've had several people make lower offers, several others are wanting to look at it and planning. In a way, I hope it doesn't sell before Christmas as we'll use it for one more Calif trip.

9k, maybe! I think I could get 9k out of mine if I put it on e-bay, but not until March or April.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto (For Sale)

[Gatorbob]

I paid $4k and put $16k in to it. There are very few of these Fiberglass body's in the Mid Atlantic area. I've never even seen a Sunrader on the road in this area in the last 2 years. My advice, Triple the cost of what you think it needs. The US market is flooded with one's that need work. That's killing me since those are considered my comparable's. NADA says the value of Toyota Sunrader's can vary greatly mileage and condition. EBay was a waste of time. All bottom feeders! Craigs List has been the best, but have to deal with the constant scammer's.

[linda s]

If I replaced every single part and appliance in my Sunrader it still wouldn't come to 16 grand. For less than that I could have a new engine and transmission too. The basic rule should be never spend more on any vehicle that exceeds the top possible price. Most of us here get around that by doing most of the work on our vehicles ourselves. The owner of the Toyota-campers group estimated he spent 14 grand on his diesel Mini Cruiser but I believe he sold it for half that. My girlfriend Gail and her husband Jon consistantly sell the rigs they reburbish for high prices but they also do all of the work themselves. Jon is a retired airplane mechanic and Gail tricks out the inside and does the detailing. She still calls herself lucky if any profit they make equals them making minimum wage for their time. These old motorhomes are hobbies, not money making ventures

Linda S

[Maineah]

Unless it looks like an Air Stream you'll be doing real well to get 7-8K I sold a puff fiberglass 1967 Nova Star 4 years ago for $6,500.

[stamar]

The reason this is not ever going to be an actual collectors car is its a conversion of a toyota truck. A bmw vixen or gmc or such could be xonsidered a classic. If a fiberglassvor aluminum class c rv ever achieved that sort of price it would be a first time....

For 22k i could buy a modern tacoma and a mirage shell and the labor to put them together, and have kiss play in make up. Im not even in the sohc old school realm with those dollara

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Gatorbob,

I'm curious as to what you had done to your motorhome that totaled $16,000. Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

John

[Gatorbob]

John and Linda, I have 40 receipts before I stopped saving them. in dollars: 127 belt replace, 124 charge ac, 241 install alt bolt and fix c converter, 3207 thermostat,filter suction, cord set,rotor,cap plugs,intake valves,nut,bolt,head gasket,p/s, timing , belts,fuel filters, Mobil one oil, replace all fluids, hardware, clamps,environmental fees, shop fees, labor and tax.36 water pump,45 flue check valve, 70 inspection parts, 26 idle pulley, 158 mod air cleaner, 311exhaust system fix, 1397 shocks, brakes, tire install ,shop time, diagnostic fees, 641 tires, 81 surge protector, 138 repair brake light ground, 119 vent fan and door light handle, 137 clearance lights and lenses, 260 2 batteries and terminal lugs, 32 bulbs and spray, 101 propane/co2 alarm, 50 vent cover, 70 furnace cover,273 water heater, 90 TV mount and wires, 223 TV, 75 H D antenna, 52 microwave oven,107 plumbing parts, 318 generator, 30 generator cover, 24 latches, 2060 water pump, plumbing interior wall repairs a/c install, 1856 refrigerator, 169 misc hardware , 43 bumper cover, 260 stainless steel bumper, 107 start switch injector, 270 drop fuel tank, 131 cold start sensor, 680 gas tank re-new, 18, plumb fitting 73 flooring, 170 wind shield repair, 27 ignition coil, 127 fuel sending unit, 340 2nd drop fuel tank, install 2nd send unit, 140 roof rack, 60 shades , curtains & rods, 170 stereo and speakers, 30 reline all cabinets , 30 head liner, 40, paint, 60 stainless fasteners, 40 hub caps, 45 cleaning fluid, 63 built in wall charger, 60 head light repairs.120 additional outlets and circuit breakers 80 sewage hose and valves, 30 marine fire extinguisher, 20 heat duct replacement, 25 insect screens on vents, 180 hush mat, 39 Egg crate ventilation under cab over mattress. 30 Caulk and butel tape

I have spent even more but stopped saving receipts in June.

Baltimore is an expensive place to live. Example It cost me $425 to replace a starter on my daughters corolla here two years ago. 2 months ago she broke down 3 hours away in West Virginia and to replace the same starter was $250 there.

[Vanman]

Just the big bills I got 21,000 in mine, just a guess but several thousands in small stuff, new converter etc. I'm not in a position to do anything major to mine myself, so I have to pay others.

But now I am getting comments about it almost every day, since the coach got painted, looks like new. In the park today they were taking pictures and peeking inside and were suprised to find " there's people in there!" Funny, but the to-do list is still there.

[Gatorbob]

I could easily go to $21 k with my wish list. I too enjoy the conversations when folks walk up to check it out. I'm so glad you spoke up about the cost. I was beginning to feel like no one was believing me.

[Maineah]

John and Linda, I have 40 receipts before I stopped saving them. in dollars: 127 belt replace, 124 charge ac, 241 install alt bolt and fix c converter, 3207 thermostat,filter suction, cord set,rotor,cap plugs,intake valves,nut,bolt,head gasket,p/s, timing , belts,fuel filters, Mobil one oil, replace all fluids, hardware, clamps,environmental fees, shop fees, labor and tax.36 water pump,45 flue check valve, 70 inspection parts, 26 idle pulley, 158 mod air cleaner, 311exhaust system fix, 1397 shocks, brakes, tire install ,shop time, diagnostic fees, 641 tires, 81 surge protector, 138 repair brake light ground, 119 vent fan and door light handle, 137 clearance lights and lenses, 260 2 batteries and terminal lugs, 32 bulbs and spray, 101 propane/co2 alarm, 50 vent cover, 70 furnace cover,273 water heater, 90 TV mount and wires, 223 TV, 75 H D antenna, 52 microwave oven,107 plumbing parts, 318 generator, 30 generator cover, 24 latches, 2060 water pump, plumbing interior wall repairs a/c install, 1856 refrigerator, 169 misc hardware , 43 bumper cover, 260 stainless steel bumper, 107 start switch injector, 270 drop fuel tank, 131 cold start sensor, 680 gas tank re-new, 18, plumb fitting 73 flooring, 170 wind shield repair, 27 ignition coil, 127 fuel sending unit, 340 2nd drop fuel tank, install 2nd send unit, 140 roof rack, 60 shades , curtains & rods, 170 stereo and speakers, 30 reline all cabinets , 30 head liner, 40, paint, 60 stainless fasteners, 40 hub caps, 45 cleaning fluid, 63 built in wall charger, 60 head light repairs.120 additional outlets and circuit breakers 80 sewage hose and valves, 30 marine fire extinguisher, 20 heat duct replacement, 25 insect screens on vents, 180 hush mat, 39 Egg crate ventilation under cab over mattress. 30 Caulk and butel tape

I have spent even more but stopped saving receipts in June.

Baltimore is an expensive place to live. Example It cost me $425 to replace a starter on my daughters corolla here two years ago. 2 months ago she broke down 3 hours away in West Virginia and to replace the same starter was $250 there.

I was born and razed out side of Baltimore during the years I lived there I owned 2 repair shops a lot of our work was restoration of mostly British cars all most to the letter they had far more money in the cars when it was done than they were worth. Most of the time I warned them that this would happen most said they didn't care they just wanted a nice car once I was done then they were off the the body shop to spend even more money. I was certainly guilty of this when I redid my Nova Star but it was some thing I wanted to be nice because I spent a lot of time camping I knew I would never even break even.

[waiter]

I tell people buying an old motorhome is worst than buying an old house. You not only need to fix the toilet and repair the roof, but you'll also replace the ujoints and repack the bearings. If you can't do the repairs and maintenance yourself, you'll pay someone else to do them, and you'll pay a fair wage for their time.

I suspect I have about $12-13k in mine, 99% of that is using my labor, which of course is free.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto (For Sale)

[Bob C]

Well I hope that you get what you think is a fair price. That being said, like others have said on here, unless you can do the repairs yourself, you will probably not get your money back out of the cost.

I replaced the water heater in my MH myself. Total cost of Attwood direct spark unit on sale was about $250. New converter on sale for $120 and installed myself. Repaired tanks drains myself for $10 in parts. Install air-ride myself for $200 (on sale.) That money I could get back on resale but if you add the in shop labor, you may not. I bought my MH very cheap and did all of the repairs myself with parts that I bought on-line for very good prices. I can PROBABLY get my money back with a little profit. I didn't buy the MH to repar and sell. I bought it because it was cheap, I could do the repairs myself and my wife and I could afford to have a MH that we could enjoy. The lady that I bought it from knew what was wrong with it and priced it accordingly. If I had to pay someone's labor, I would have to spend about $2000 more than it was worth.

[Gatorbob]

I did not plan to sell this quick. I did not have the time, tools or know how to do some of the technical repairs. I really did enjoy working on it, the family camping plan is just not working out.

Take a look on you tube: http://youtu.be/hzUqrxQ8oFE

[Jetblack]

My camping plans weren't working out either; so I said goodbye to the GF and hello to the Travel Master. I was going just a tad stir crazy, same place, same city, day after day after day. Can't wait to get my rig the way I want it and full time, I'm already living in it at home base to get used to it and figure out creature comforts... a thick memory foam above the cab is definitely one of the first orders of business.

But OP I suggest posting Ebay with a billion well shot pictures, that's the only place I've ever seen these go for pretty large amounts, around where I am NC/SC area really nice averages 8k max including raiders, one sat at 9.5 all summer and was really really nice. Anything listed at 7k and less dissapear in a week or less.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Jetblack

[douglitas]

Maryland Sunrader not smog legal for California

[MontanaChinook]

If you are paying other people for labor, your vehicle will pretty always cost you more money than you will ever get back out of it selling it.

I'd be up to $10,000 (rather than $5,000) if I had been paying someone to do my work. NO WAY a Chinook will sell for that much money. Not even half that. Get what you can get out of your Sunrader. But it doesn't work that way. The amount of money you put in does not equal the selling price.

My 4x4 that I sold not too long ago had...probably $7k invested. A rebuilt engine, transmission and transfer case in a 1983 truck cost me about $3,500. I bought the truck for $1,000. Those rebuilt parts do not make the truck worth $4,500. More like maybe $2,000.

If I itemized everything on that truck I spent money on, it would probably add up to the $7,000 amount. The truck wasn't worth more than $2,500 when all that was done. It just wasn't.

[linda s]

Maryland Sunrader not smog legal for California

What makes you think that. This Sunrader was made in California. If it runs as good as he says and he hasn't removed any of the smog equipment it's just fine here. All it has to do to be registered here is pass smog

Linda S

[waiter]

Linda, et al,

Correct, Registering an out of state car in Calif isn't any problem. Basically, all the equipment the car was manufactured with must be on the car and functional, i.e. if it was a Maryland car and was originally sold with a smog pump and cat converter, then those need to be on the car and functional in order to pass smog. Basically, if the car is in good shape, with good tuneup, it should pass the emissions portion with no problem.

Check your gas cap to make sure it seals the tank. (if you hear a slight woosh when you remove the gas cap, its OK) This will be one of the tests they do, pressurize the fuel tank and make sure it doesn't leak vapor.

In the old days, when there were distributors, they also required the installation of a Nox box, this was a small vacumn run computer that would retard timing under temperature and throttle conditions to reduce Nox.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto (SOLD)

[Vanman]

Same with the Dolphins, truck made in Fremont, RV made in Souther Calif. Did a CarFax on ours. I saw a Winnabago on I think e-bay motors and it looked in great shape, but no generator. I was thinking about getting that and selling ours till the bidding went to a few dollars below 20,000$, at which point I said, we'll keep this one and fix it up. Had no idea how entensive or expensive that would end up, but I need this floorplan and there are very few like ours. Model 400, where the captains chair was is now a birdcage. I didn't do all this work to anything other than keep using it for many years.

Spent 3 hours on it today after we got back from our day trip. I wouldn't sell it for a penny less than 20 K$, which is a lot less than I got in it. I'm to the point where it mostly for appearence items now.

john

[Gatorbob]

Maryland Sunrader not smog legal for California

This is a made in California Sunrader Legal in Maryland. To my knowledge, none of the California equipment has been removed. The exhaust system after the converter was replaced 2013.

[Gatorbob]

I have dropped the price to $18,500. Now at -$630.00 . I owe nothing. I will make up my loss when I buy my next project.

My last known issue "Mystery Stall" seems to have been solved by replacing the Ignition coil. I solved 3 other annoying issues yesterday.

1. Cab over condensation/water under the mattress: I used plastic florescent lighting covers call "egg crates"

this makes an air gap between the mattress and the fiberglass shell

.

2. Dim front, top clearance lights: I had a ground between the 1st front and last rear light (the worst possible spot) I isolated the front from the rear by cutting the incoming rear leads. I ran a wire from the front driver side parking light, under the truck and up the double wall, behind the driver side cab seat, behind the wall up to the first clearance light. Success! Beautiful bright clearance lights 360 degrees.

BONUS REPAIR : drilling that half inch hole in the bottom for the wire, made a nice weep hole any water or condensation that might get into the cab over. I LOVE BONUS REPAIRS. Total cost material $40. labor $0.

[Gatorbob]

your egg crate idea is not viable. You have created closed cells. You need air flow channels so the trapped air can escape out form underneath the mattress. It is the transfer of air out from under the mattress that reduces the condensation. All you have done is provide a bigger trap.

Wrong. The fiberglass surface in the cab over is rough, not perfectly smooth. That rough texture is enough to keep is slightly off the bottom. I can pour a cup of water at the front of the mattress and it easily passes under the mattress and toward the weep hole. Real life, I would never get a cup of water all at once from leaks or condensation.

Update: Corbin K, Okay, Heat was on all night. It was cold and damp outside. ZERO condensation in the cab over this morning. . You can theorize all you want. It worked PERFECTLY. Money well spent. End of discussion.

Yes I did double insulate the wire were it touches the fiberglass. Its a 1/2 inch hole with 14 gauge wire. No grommet as i need to allow room to reduce possible blockage.

[Derek up North]

"... with maximum frontal area of 41.0 sq. ft."

Just an idle thought over my coffee: I wonder if Toyota would have used different settings if a more realistic frontal area (for our Motorhomes) was used? 70 sq. ft.?

[Gatorbob]

California Legal