Oil consumption problem in 22rec fi

[mini-wini-dan]

I posted the same topic about 6-8 mos ago and actually thought the problem had been resolved but it was not. If you remember I thought I discovered an oil leak that was causing the loss of oil and after replacing the timing chain cover and oil pump (where it was noticed to be cracked and a hole plugged) this made little if any difference. Since then I have taken the 86 mini-wini on 2 1200 mile trips and find that I am still consuming about 1 quart per 400-500 miles of travel.

This vehicle has 74000 miles on it and aside from losing so much oil it runs excellent. It seems to have reasonable power and I have cruised on I-95 easily at 65 mph.

I have consulted.one mechanic who thinks it could be bad valve seals which cause a lot of oil to enter the cylinder especially at start up. After examining the spark plugs today at over 3000 miles since installed I see dry light umber coloration (which I think shows little evidence of burning oil). This engine sounds good and runs good so I am still puzzled when I see no puddle of oil under it at any time. There must be an undetected leaking site.

Any ideas or similar experiences out there.

I was hoping to drive it from PA to San Fransisco this coming July and if so I will need 3 gallons of oil to get there and return. If it is a leak it could go from bad to worse while en-route so I am going to look for another mechanic to check it out soon

[Maineah]

I would be looking at oil leaks. Valve seals leaking will smoke on start up and idling those are pretty tough engines. The most common leak is the timing case seal behind the crank pulley and it drips down on the framework where is not easy to detect and the half moon plug behind the cyl head. The color of your plugs suggests a proper running engine.

[waiter]

Where is the oil going? on the ground or out the tailpipe? 1 qt every 500 is livable if its burning it, but a sign of problems to come.

If its out the tail pipe, there is generally two places for large oil consumption. Valve guides or piston rings (I say rings)

Also look at PCV system, Pull the PCV valve and see if its oily or plugged, A plugged PCV system could aggravate the problem by pressurizing the crankcase, and pushing oil past the rings or down the valve guides.

Pull the head and do a valve job. if that doesn't solve it, then its rings.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[stamar]

check out the valvve cover gasket half moon in the rear.

very common in toyotas that sit and are old.

[5Toyota]

i would yes check the valve cover one thing nobody mentioned is the oil pressure sending unit those will somtimes leak what wt of oil are you useing for myself i run 20 w 50 if you run 10 40 and some of that thin stuff it will use more oil. I have two 22res my 4wd has 200.000 plus . my dolphon has 66 000 on it i will be running 20 w 50 as i have in all my 4 datsens and 7 toyotas for thirty six years.

[mini-wini-dan]

I have added 15/40 shell rotella 2 qts and used 1 qt of lucas oil additive prior to adding the rotella. Thanks to each of you

for the info about possible leak areas - I'll check them out.

[stamar]

ya why i say the valve cover is theres a spot directly in the back that seems to have a really good clearance spot to the ground when it leaks so it doesnt leave quarts of evidence. although theres plenty of oil everywhere.

I had a 79 dolphin that puked oil from it, it was like it wasnt there although it was for apearancw sake. didnt leak til heated up either

never even knew it was bad til i replaced the set and then when i saaw it it was like, no kidding.

also replace the pvc valve whether you think it works or not.

When you have a leak it makes it worse especially this type of leak im talking about.

and no I dont believe you can burn that much oil.

I know this comes up a lot on toyota trucks forums that you can burn a quart every 500 miles and be into spec. But I dont believe that thats a fountain of a leak the size of a pencil at least

[ShaggyRV]

Where is the oil going? on the ground or out the tailpipe? 1 qt every 500 is livable if its burning it, but a sign of problems to come.

If its out the tail pipe, there is generally two places for large oil consumption. Valve guides or piston rings (I say rings)

Also look at PCV system, Pull the PCV valve and see if its oily or plugged, A plugged PCV system could aggravate the problem by pressurizing the crankcase, and pushing oil past the rings or down the valve guides.

Pull the head and do a valve job. if that doesn't solve it, then its rings.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

I agree with waiter on this one. I've seen the PCV system cause oil consumption problems. It seems to be worse at highway speeds. If you have no evidence of a leak and no obvious burning signs like smoke from the tailpipe. PCV's are cheap. A good place to start if you don't have a leak!!

[zero]

.

I posted the same topic about 6-8 mos ago and actually thought the problem had been resolved but it was not. If you remember I thought I discovered an oil leak that was causing the loss of oil and after replacing the timing chain cover and oil pump (where it was noticed to be cracked and a hole plugged) this made little if any difference. Since then I have taken the 86 mini-wini on 2 1200 mile trips and find that I am still consuming about 1 quart per 400-500 miles of travel.

This vehicle has 74000 miles on it and aside from losing so much oil it runs excellent. It seems to have reasonable power and I have cruised on I-95 easily at 65 mph.

The last two Toyota pickups I had were a 1985 and a 1989. Both with 2.4 engines and both ate a quart of oil every two tanks of gas. I drove them both until they got so rusty I had to junk them. No leaks, no valve seal problems. Just combustion chamber wear. It never affected reliability, gas mileage, etc. Never fouled the spark plugs either. An engine could get that damage in a few hours of driving on a dusty road with a bad air filter. Not uncommon

If your problem was valve seals, it would smoke when coming down steep hills with a low gear holding you back. That is, unless you've got a catalytic converter. If so, you probably will never see smoke. Valve seals leak during high engine vacuum. Not when driving normally. At first start with choke and throttle closed, or when using a low gear to slow you down and no foot on the gas pedal.

You probably have wear/damage inside. Scored cylinder walls, worn piston-ring grooves in the pistons. etc. Rings themselves rarely wear by themselves anymore. Back in the days of soft cast iron rings and hardened cylinder walls - yeah. Not the case with a Toyota or any other modern engine made in the past 40 years. Scratches from dust on the cylinder walls is all it takes.

My 2002 Subaru with only 75K miles on it also eats a quart of oil every two tanks of gas and it only has a 13 gallon tank that I rarely run lower then 1/4 full. My 1992 Subaru eats a quart of oil with every one tank of gas. Neither smoke and neither show any sign of oil burning on the spark plugs. My Kia Sportage - also with a small four cylinder engine (Mazda) has 220K miles and doesn't use a drop of oil. So, you never know.

Since you can install valve seals without taking the engine apart - it might be worth a try but I doubt it will gain you much. Toyotas as I recall use stationary positive-type valve seals and rarely cause problems. Engines with valve seals in the spring-retainer caps or with umbrellas are more typical for that sort of thing - like used on many GMs and Fords before emissions regs were around. I'd pull the valve cover and check for excess play in the valve guides by trying to jiggle the valve-stem tops. Also make sure it's clean in there. Before detergent oil was the norm- many engines would sludge up in there and then oil would build up like a pond since the returns would plug. That causes oil usage but is rare in a well cared for engine.

If you want to know for sure - you'd need to pull the head and closely inspect all four cylinder walls. If scratched - the only fix will be to bore the cylinders oversize and install bigger pistons and rings. .

[mini-wini-dan]

Thanks for your info jdemaris,

am finding out that this is a problem that could be ignored and just keep checking and adding oil. I am still going to check some of the possible leak locations and do what I can without taking the engine apart for now. Thanks to all who have shared thoughts on this!!

[waiter]

Dan, Look under the truck, is the bottom of the truck oilly, do you have drips on the ground? i.e. are you leaking the oil or burning the oil.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[MontanaChinook]

I guess you drive this thing a lot? By which I guess I mean, it doesn't ever sit for long periods of time? Seems like its pretty easy to determine if you're burning or leaking. I know you said no visible leaks.

So...if it sits for two months, does it need oil added then? Or only when you drive it? Some leaks will only get bad when the oil is heated, and circulated, then they'll slow down or even stop once you're totally cooled off. But 1 quart every 400-500 miles would be a noticeable leak when you park. Even if its coming out of the valve cover half moon gasket in the back and hitting the top of the tranny first, that much oil will make its way to the bottom of the front (bell housing) of the tranny and start dripping back there and make you think it's the rear main seal.

Seems to me that no matter where the leak is, that much oil will show up on the pavement. So I'd say you're burning it...

[mini-wini-dan]

I have only driven this vehicle once since my last trip 600 miles to outer banks area. I crawled under it today and did see signs of oil running down the side (driver's side) of the engine. Looking under the hood I did notice a bit of oil collected around a gizmo located just below the distributor. This device is running off the fan belt which means it has a pulley operating it. I thought it might be the power steering pump but did not see any access opening to add power steering fluid. I am sure my mechanic can tell me what this part is doing and maybe it is the source of my oil leak. IF it is the power steering pump then it is not the source of an oil leak and it is just the source of a power steering fluid leak? right?

Earlier I did say that I have seen oil on the under carriage area and my mechanic found a cracked/broken timing chain housing where we suspected it as the source of the leak. Neither he nor I noticed this leak seen from the top area until I looked today. Does anyone know what this pulley-operated gizmo is?

[MontanaChinook]

Probably your alternator.

Leaking timing cover can cause oil there, depending on where its cracked. Might be time to do headgasket, timing chain, oil pump water pump job...

To replace the timing cover the CORRECT way, you should take the head off. At that point you've got all the above listed parts removed and ready to replace...

Kinda early in its life for that sort of job, but I wouldn't dig that far into the engine without replacing those parts.

Or you could just live with the oil leakage for another 30 or so thousand miles.

[zero]

I have only driven this vehicle once since my last trip 600 miles to outer banks area. I crawled under it today and did see signs of oil running down the side (driver's side) of the engine. Looking under the hood I did notice a bit of oil collected around a gizmo located just below the distributor. This device is running off the fan belt which means it has a pulley operating it. I thought it might be the power steering pump but did not see any access opening to add power steering fluid. I am sure my mechanic can tell me what this part is doing and maybe it is the source of my oil leak. IF it is the power steering pump then it is not the source of an oil leek and it is just the source of a power steering fluid leak? right?

Earlier I did say that I have seen oil on the under carriage area and my mechanic found a cracked/broken timing chain housing where we suspected it as the source of the leak. Neither he nor I noticed this leak seen from the top area until I looked today. Does anyone know what this pulley-operated gizmo is?

I'll assume you are referring to the power steering pump. It does not have a filler cap on it. There is a hose attached to it and that hose runs to a remote-mounted filler mounted on the driver's side inner-fender.

I can't say if you're leaking oil, burning oil, or both. That being said, a small leak can look like a lot. The majority of four cylinder Japanese vehicles I've owned have burned oil to a noticeable degree - especially with stop-and-go driving. 1 or 2 quarts every 1000 miles isn't even considered a problem by some car makers (at least when people are trying to get warranty). My daughter has a new Ford Escape with a 2.5 four-cylinder and it's eating 1 1/2 quarts every 1000 miles. Ford says it has to verify more then 2 quarts in 1000 miles in order to consider it potential problem.

[MontanaChinook]

Sorry I re read your first post. So you already replaced the timing cover? And it's still leaking?

[mini-wini-dan]

No it is not the alternator I see that on the other side. This part has a couple of fluid carrying lines going through it.

[mini-wini-dan]

The timing cover was changed and there is no oil leaks noted around that area. It is dry as a bone down there. The leak appears to be around the power steering pump area.

[MontanaChinook]

I'll assume you are referring to the power steering pump. It does not have a filler cap on it. There is a hose attached to it and that hose runs to a remote-mounted filler mounted on the driver's side inner-fender.

I can't say if you're leaking oil, burning oil, or both. That being said, a small leak can look like a lot. The majority of four cylinder Japanese vehicles I've owned have burned oil to a noticeable degree - especially with stop-and-go driving. 1 or 2 quarts every 1000 miles isn't even considered a problem by some car makers (at least when people are trying to get warranty). My daughter has a new Ford Escape with a 2.5 four-cylinder and it's eating 1 1/2 quarts every 1000 miles. Ford says it has to verify more then 2 quarts in 1000 miles in order to consider it potential problem.

Gotta love those east coast engines! Holy rust! We just don't see that kind of corrosion out here.

Whether you're looking at you power steering pump or alternator, neither of those is your oil consumption/leaking problem. If power steering, it too could be leaking and causing the oil there. But either it or the alternator could be collecting oil from an engine leak.

[Derek up North]

I have added 15/40 shell rotella 2 qts and used 1 qt of lucas oil additive prior to adding the rotella. Thanks to each of you

for the info about possible leak areas - I'll check them out.

What's your theory behind using a diesel oil in your Toyota? It seems I've read that using a high detergent diesel oil will, if anything, lead to leaks in an older gas engine.

[MontanaChinook]

Ok. Other side? Maybe your engine is different. My alternator is on the drivers side.

Doesn't matter. So yeah, probably you also have a power steering fluid leak.

Ok, I couldn't tell from your last post that you were talking about past leaks that had been fixed. Good that that area is dry anyway!

[MontanaChinook]

What's your theory behind using a diesel oil in your Toyota? It seems I've read that using a high detergent diesel oil will, if anything, lead to leaks in an older gas engine.

Yeah.

People will run something like that or automatic transmission fluid for a few miles or maybe for an oil change (one quart tranny fluid, the rest regular oil) to clean out an engine and maybe try to stop hydraulic lifter sticking...but on an old toyota engine, it would be like switching to synthetic oil...will clean out all the gunk that's been holding leaks back.

That's what I hear, anyway.

[mini-wini-dan]

Are you saying 15/40 rotella is a diesel oil? An older gentleman WW2 vet sold Toyotas to me for several years. He was a good mechanic as well aand worked on the cars he sold. Unfortunately he has passed on. He swore on using a 15/40 oil in all of his Toyota engines. I also heard from people on this forum about shell rotella and my mechanic suggested the lucas additive. Neither of these changes have made any difference difference concerning the loss of oil..

[waiter]

Sounds like the smog pump (passanger side, above A/C compressor.) There shouldn't be any oil leaking via the smog pump.

It sounds like you have a leak rather than burning it. Get a can (or two) of "Gunk" engine cleaner, spray it on the warm engine, let it sit for 15 minutes or so. Then use a garden hose (or pressure washer) to spray the engine compartment. Once the compartment is clean, it may be easier to spot the leaks.

ALSO - If you have access to an ultraviolet light, they sell a dye you put in the oil, it will show up with the ultraviolet light. (Check your auto parts store, they may have a light you can barrow.

NOTE - I change oil every 3-5000 miles and haven't used any oil at all between oil changes.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Derek up North]

Are you saying 15/40 Rotella is a diesel oil?

http://www.shell.com/rotella/product-selector.html

[mini-wini-dan]

Yes I see you are right and I have pasted the comment posted on this forum a while back about the use of rotella

I have just added 2 qts recently and what oil would you recommend?

fA comprression and leak down test will show if you have engine problems. One thing you might try is seafoam in your oil as it can clean and free sticking compression and oil control rings. Some brands of oil seem to run through cars I have had in the past like sh*t through a goose. If its hot in your area I recommend trying Shell Rotella triple protection 15-40 which is a diesel engine oil. It will also help clean out your engine if it has gunk etc. This oil has alot more detergents because of all the soot in diesels. On a Saturn of mine which are famous for burning oil because of a bad piston design I put seafoam in each cylender overnight and let it soak. I then cranked over the engine with the spark plugs out to blow out any left over. I also added seafoam to the engine oil and drove around a day. Put in the above mentioned oil and oil consumption has gone wayyy down. These things are inexpensive and just might help you out. Good luck!!

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[Derek up North]

Rotella might well free up sticky oil control rings. IF that's your problem. It won't plug any external leaks though.

[Maineah]

What's your theory behind using a diesel oil in your Toyota? It seems I've read that using a high detergent diesel oil will, if anything, lead to leaks in an older gas engine.

Agreed diesel oil not for a gas engine.

[Maineah]

Most additives are snake oil use them if you like if you believe they work they will. I have never owned a 20R or 22RE engine that used oil other then a leak or any Toyota truck engine for that matter. Had a Camery that burned oil but like a qt. in 2000 miles it did smoke on start up (valve seals)..

[zero]

Are you saying 15/40 rotella is a diesel oil? An older gentleman WW2 vet sold Toyotas to me for several years. He was a good mechanic as well aand worked on the cars he sold. Unfortunately he has passed on. He swore on using a 15/40 oil in all of his Toyota engines. I also heard from people on this forum about shell rotella and my mechanic suggested the lucas additive. Neither of these changes have made any difference difference concerning the loss of oil..

Shell Rotella T is oil rated for gas and diesel engines. It has more metal-wear protection additives then over-the-counter motor oil now sold for modern gas engines. In brief, Shell Rotella has around the same level of anti-wear additives that gas engine oil had before 2009. After 2009, the anti-wear ingredients in gas-engines oils was lowered (for highway use). I.e., Shell Rotella T is better suited for a 70-90s gas engine then the majority of oils sold today (sold for cars and trucks with emissions systems). The only way to get oil with the older and higher level of protection is by getting certain diesel-certified oils (e.g. Rotella or Delo), or to use off-road HD oil - or racing oil.

[WME]

Shell Rotella T is oil rated for gas and diesel engines. It has more metal-wear protection additives then over-the-counter motor oil now sold for modern gas engines. In brief, Shell Rotella has around the same level of anti-wear additives that gas engine oil had before 2009. After 2009, the anti-wear ingredients in gas-engines oils was lowered (for highway use). I.e., Shell Rotella T is better suited for a 70-90s gas engine then the majority of oils sold today (sold for cars and trucks with emissions systems). The only way to get oil with the older and higher level of protection is by getting certain diesel-certified oils (e.g. Rotella or Delo), or to use off-road HD oil - or racing oil.

What he said, Rotella is fine in a Toyota MH

[zero]

fA comprression and leak down test will show if you have engine problems. One thing you might try is seafoam in your oil as it can clean and free sticking compression and oil control rings. Some brands of oil seem to run through cars I have had in the past like sh*t through a goose. If its hot in your area I recommend trying Shell Rotella triple protection 15-40 which is a diesel engine oil. It will also help clean out your engine if it has gunk etc. This oil has alot more detergents because of all the soot in diesels. On a Saturn of mine which are famous for burning oil because of a bad piston design I put seafoam in each cylender overnight and let it soak. I then cranked over the engine with the spark plugs out to blow out any left over. I also added seafoam to the engine oil and drove around a day. Put in the above mentioned oil and oil consumption has gone wayyy down. These things are inexpensive and just might help you out. Good luck!!

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Shell Rotella is not substantially higher in detergency then most gas engine oils. . The concept of "freeing" up a gunky engine with "high detergency oil" is something that applied 30-40 years ago. Not common anymore. Just about all motor oils are high detergency - gas and diesel and have been the norm since the late 70s.

[zero]

Here are the specs for Shell Rotella T 15W-40. Note it is rated for hard use in diesel AND gas engines. It exceeds any requirements for the Toyota engine. Note the API "SM, SL, SJ, and SH" ratings. They are ALL for gas engines. The "C" ratings are the diesel-related ratings. Shell Rotella T is an excellent oil for hard use in a car or truck gas engine.

[zero]

Are you saying 15/40 rotella is a diesel oil? An older gentleman WW2 vet sold Toyotas to me for several years. He was a good mechanic as well aand worked on the cars he sold. Unfortunately he has passed on. He swore on using a 15/40 oil in all of his Toyota engines. I also heard from people on this forum about shell rotella and my mechanic suggested the lucas additive. Neither of these changes have made any difference difference concerning the loss of oil..

What the old guy told you about using a good diesel-rated oil in your gas engine is 100% correct. The diesel-rated oils offer superior protection in gas engines, not less. But they usually cost more also. Being diesel rated means the oil is good for gas AND diesels - not just for diesels as some have implied here. To the converse, a gas engine rated oil is inferior and cannot be used in diesels unless it carries some sort of "C" API rating.. Sometime around 2009 - the new emissions standards required new emissions equipment that does not get along well with engine oils with certain anti-wear additives. Mostly ZDDP. So the additives got lowered after 2009 in just about all highway gas engine oils and some diesel rated oils. Engines are built with more durable materials to compensate. Older engines do not have these super-durable materials and need the higher levels of additives.

In regard to oil consumption though - any engine built and used in the past 30 years - if taken care of - is going to be clean inside and not have something like fouled or stuck oil-rings. Subsequently, oil consumption is usually related to scratches in a cylinder wall, lined-up ring-end gaps, loose valve guides, etc. No additive is going to fix that sort of problem. And if you DID have an old engine that had never been run with high detergent oil and had 1/2" of sludge inside of it? Adding HD oil in an engine like that will sometimes ruin it - not fix it. I've seen it happen to a few 1950s-60s farm tractors and bull-dozers. Loosened up all the sludge, it traveled into the main bearings and scored them up. Doesh't have to be a diesel oil either. Many gas engine oils are very high in detergency.