Furnace won't light up and blows cold.

[aptruncata]

Hello there,

I know nothing about how the furnace works on the toy, previous rv unit were all rentals and latest models so never really had to trouble shoot anything. With that said, when i turn the temp up i can hear the blower start and few seconds later hear the igniter run for about 4-5 seconds and still the air is cold. I've noticed i have 2 propane tanks that are sitting horizontally, both of which i have turned on and made sure to use the gas range to have propane in the lines.

-one tank appears to have propane and another appears to be empty, does the furnace and range use a different line/tanks?

-the igniter sound is so very faint i can barely hear it, can the igniter be an issue? is it replaceable?

-there appears to be a "regulator" sort of thing sitting between the two propane tanks which looks very aged, what does it do and what would necessitate a replacement?

Thanks in advance.

[Derek up North]

Hello there,

... I've noticed i have 2 propane tanks that are sitting horizontally, both of which i have turned on and made sure to use the gas range to have propane in the lines.

-one tank appears to have propane and another appears to be empty, does the furnace and range use a different line/tanks?

Can't say I recall anyone saying they've got 2 horizontal propane tanks installed. Or propane lines/circuits.

[waiter]

First I heard about two horiz tanks.

Does the stove work? i.e. run the stove for a minute or two, this should ensure that there is propane in the supply lines.

Note that the furnace will make one attempt to light, if it fails, it will not reset and the blower will run until the thermostat is turned back down.

If you know you have gas, you may be able to see the igniter sparking, you might also see if it will light with one of those long BIC lighters. (apply the bic lighter at the same time as the igniter is firing.)

I think the attempt to light phase only lasts about 5 seconds.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[aptruncata]

@Waiter,

Stove works as prescribed.

I've noticed the furnace is under the sofa in a rectangular metal box. Where should i expect to see the spark?

yes i have two propane tanks that are laid on their sides (valves pointing towards the outside of the vehicle) and not sitting upright.

is this unusual and dangerous?

Thanks

[dolphindriver]

_{I just had this same problem on a camping trip this weekend in the mojave wilderness area (camping at the sand dunes).}

_{I knew I had gas at the stove and the igniter was firing. I had to recycle the thermostat at least ten times to finally start the furnace. Once it was lit - it worked great all night (on and off - down in the 30s). I don't know, but I expect there was some air in the gas lines (as I had not used the furnace for a long time) and each ignition cycle only allows a small amount of gas/air to be released to try to light the furnace. You may also have a low spark on the igniter - perhaps turn the truck on while you are going through the multiple recycles or plug in to a/c power.}

_{That said - it is unclear how your two tank system works. Look at the hoses coming off the tank - to they come together right away so that both tanks provide gas for all appliances. Or do the hoses from the tanks go away separately. If they go away separately, I would try switch the hoses on the tanks and seeing if the furnance works then (or if the stove then doesn't work). You should be able to follow the separate lines to see where they go.}

[Derek up North]

@Waiter,

Stove works as prescribed.

I've noticed the furnace is under the sofa in a rectangular metal box. Where should i expect to see the spark?

yes i have two propane tanks that are laid on their sides (valves pointing towards the outside of the vehicle) and not sitting upright.

is this unusual and dangerous?

Thanks

Before you mess with it any more, make absolutely certain that you're not dealing with 2 standard 20lb BBQ propane cylinders. They are downright dangerous if you try to operate them on their side.

[aptruncata]

@derek,

can you give this greenhorn some pointers on how to differentiate between the two?

[Derek up North]

I think any tank or cylinder designed to operate horizontally will have legs/brackets/supports welded to them for horizontal installation. A BBQ tank will just have the round ring around the bottom so it will sit on the ground vertically.

Can you post a picture?

[aptruncata]

I haven't removed the tanks so i don't know what they look like on the bottom.

Basically, it appears to be two tanks laid on their sides with a metal bar both on the bottom and top held with a wingnut to keep them from moving.

i've looked under the sofa to see if i am able to access the igniting area with a bic lighter but there is no peep hole or any kind of space to reach into. the grey metal box (furnace) has just the name (suburban) imprint on it and a duct running from it. I'll get the pic on this one as well.

Edited November 15, 2012 by aptruncata

[5Toyota]

HI there those look to be opd trangle handle bbq tanks . the correct tanks would have legs top and bottom they are also marked top when horzontal. also that looks to be an old single stage regulator those are not current . my local rv store told me they can no longer install those by law. maybe you can find used horzonatl tanks . you can get new ones

[aptruncata]

@yababy,

is it dangerous to use these? How much do used horizontal tanks run? and where would i find them?

Currently, they are hooked up to the stove and seems to be working great. In the event the regulator and the tanks pose no safety risk, will it be a bad idea to just keep using them? Will i have trouble refilling them?

[90toydolphin]

there are lots of articles about the safety of propane tanks online. mostly what has been shared here and other toyota motor home sites is that it is not safe to use the bbq tanks, vertical syle, on their sides. the picture to me looks like that is what they are. personally i would remove and put in the right type.

[waiter]

The ones in your photo look like standard BBQ tanks, you can exchange them at any of the vending machines and should have no problem refilling them, as long as they have the Overfill Protection Valve.

Using a vertical tank in the horizontal position is very dangerous, liquid propane can propagate into the regulator, and into the low pressure plumbing, if (when) this happens, the liquid will almost instantly turn to gas, raise the pressure in the low pressure plumbing, and turn the stove, or furnace or frig into a flame thrower. (NOTE - Using a Horiz tank vertically is just as dangerous)

I would stop using these immediately until you can either mount them vertically, or get a horizontal tank.

Look on Craigs list or e-bay, you might also check local junk yards.

Look on this link, this is what my horizontal tank looks like:

HORIZ TANK AND REGULATOR

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[WME]

Here are pics of both tanks http://www.propanetankstore.com/

[waiter]

$140 for the 20 lb is a good price.

I'd consider doing this:

1) if you buy two horiz tanks, buy one of the automatic changeover regulators and hoses so that you can leave both tanks hooked up. This would be the preferred, if one of the tanks goes empty, it switches to the other tank. You can then take the empty tank out and refill it.

2) If you buy one horiz tank, get the standard 2 stage regulator and one 4 ft long hose. Connect the hose to the horiz tank normally, but if you stop overnight or longer, set the BBQ tank outside and hook the hose up to the BBQ tank (thats what I do)

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[aptruncata]

$140 for one tank i suppose is not too much but getting two plus the accessories would near $400 that i didn't expect to spend.

getting one and using a regular tank upright wouldn't be a bad idea....or not using them at all until i get to my destination is another course of option too.

I suppose i'll just use the existing tanks until they are empty and meanwhile consider my options....which means the furnace will have to wait. Without a guage, it's hard to tell how much gas i've got in or there is there a way to tell? I don't bbq much (vegetarian) and don't own a gas grill, what would be the best way to discard these empty tanks when i'm done with them?

thanks a bunch

[waiter]

Like I said before, look around on craigs list, e-bay and the local junk yard, you might be able to find a horiz for a few bucks (Last year someone in Calif was giving one away if you wanted to stop by and pick it up, I missed this opportunity by two days as I passed near his location a couple days earlier.

As for the old BBQ tanks, craigs list, or ask your neighbors if they need an extra tank.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Ruly]

Had this problem in our Sunrader a couple of years ago. Turned the thermostat up, the furnace blower would come on but no heat. Turned out it was my coach battery not supplying enough juice. This was causing the blower to not blow hard enough to trigger the sail switch in the furnace. The sail switch is a safety feature that will keep the furnace from lighting if the blower is not working (or in my case not working strong enough). The tell tale sign that let me figure it out was that the furnace would light when the RV was plugged into electricity (furnace blower gets power from transformer instead, which is now enough to trip the sail switch). Try your furnace after plugging in, if it works either charge your battery or replace it.

[5Toyota]

my horzontal tanks are dated 1972 and 1973 bought one in wrecking yard 10 dollors other at county haserd disposall site take to bulk propane plant 5 dollors ea recertifican furnece or not bbq tank need to set upright to use. both of the toy homes i have had came with bbq tanks save them use for xtra tank but set upright on the ground. and get a safe modern two stage regulater fifteen dollors maybe.

[5Toyota]

you get to where you can pick one up schack it and you will know almost ex how much is in it. i can anyway. i carry one horzontal tank in place and a bbq tank for spare and to use on a gas grill or portable stove. we are not allowed to use charcoal briquets in eastern washington state during fire season. pressure stoves only. i use them at home never in the woods. PS most any bulk propane plant takes old tanks.

[aptruncata]

Thanks for the advice.

I have one more question regarding the propane tanks.

How long does a 20lb tank last if you cook three meals a day and 3-4 hours of heat at night?

I live in southern California and most of my trips are in the eastern sierras with average of 3 days and maximum of 5-7 day stays.

[Maineah]

Waiter is 100% correct that is a real big no no. There is also a possibility that there is oil in the small parts of the heater. Propane is a petroleum product and the liquid does have a certain amount of oil in it. It's in a low spot so the oil will collect there. I am not absolutely sure of this but I think that a horizontal tank can only be recertified if the valve is off center so if you are looking at a used one it would be good to know your not buying a tank that can not be refilled a local gas co. should be able to tell you. Your heater is the big gas hog but with two tanks you should be able to camp a full season.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

It sounds like your coach battery is a little low. Try this: start the motorhome engine, then try to get the furnace to light.

Before you do this, get rid of the tanks you have! Do not "use the existing tanks until they are empty"! This is much more dangerous than you think. You're risking a serious fire or explosion and it will happen so fast there won't be anything you can do about except run like Hell. (if you still can)

Buy just one horizontal tank, block it in place so it doesn't roll around in the compartment and hook it up using an upgraded regulator, etc. When you can afford it, get another horizontal tank

John

[sdboltdude]

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/rvs/3413678117.html

rv parts in san diego

shows pics of propane tanks for sale

[aptruncata]

okay, i get it...DO NOT USE THE BBQ PROPANE TANKS. =)

i will want to replace them with new with an automatic changeover regulator.

If i get one tank for now, will the automatic changeover regulator work or will i HAVE to have two tanks connected.

I ask because i like waiter's idea to eventually get two tanks in the future....just not now.

[WME]

The cheapest auto change over controller is the one at the end of your arm. Just open one tank and then when the stove quits change them over.

[waiter]

Yes, if you install an auto changeover regulator, it will work with one tank.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Riverman77]

Dear aptruncata,

The previous posters are offering you very sound advice. As they have said, don't screw around when it comes to questionable L/P gas lines, tanks etc. One mess up can blow it all to Smithereens! Once you have followed their suggestions and gotten any questionable L/P gas out of the equation, I wish to offer you my suggestion to getting your furnace running: I have a 1988 Dolphin. Whenever my heater begins to run continuously cold air, 1) I check that I have not run out of L/P gas. 2) I will check my coach battery for how much juice is left in it. For some reason, the furnace WILL NOT fire up & operate (just runs cold air) if the battery has fallen below a certain point. To answer your other question: All of those piezo electric ignitors should be fairly easy to get or order from your RV Parts guys or maybe online. Like usual, be sure to have all of your model and serial numbers handy.

Good Luck,

Riverman77

[aws910]

I cant believe how expensive the horizontal tanks are! #$&%!

[waiter]

$140 is about the cheapest I've seen them.

http://www.propanetankstore.com/shop/20-lb-5-gallon-horizontal-tank-cylinder-with-gauge/

John Mc

[sailfritz]

I'm buying a 85' Dolphin and wondering if I find someone has used/installed BBQ tank/tanks can I just get original Rv propane tanks used at a scrap yard for rv parts?