Dank Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Hello - First time poster, but I've been hanging around here for a couple of months since we got our first toy home (1984 Huntsman). I've spent several hours going through the plethora of information on this forum - a great resource! The wife and I (and 3 dogs) took our first trip this past weekend, and we learned a few things. Firstly, don't take 3 dogs on a camping trip! Secondly, our suspension needs some attention, as we took a beating, even on concrete interstate expansion joints. I'm hoping to get some clarity here. Here's the setup: Five leaf leaf springs, factory air bags (welded to frame and axle), and adjustable air shocks (max-air). I'm confused as to how these components work together (in theory). In my case, the leaf springs sag too low if I remove the air from the bags and shocks. If I take all the air out of the bags and shocks, it's like riding a hard-tail Harley. I get the feeling that the leafs aren't doing anything. When I put air into the shocks, I can't tell much difference either...just raises the frame a bit, but still a hard ride regardless of pressure. When I add air to the bags, it softens things a bit, but then the bouncing begins. So... I guess we all want a soft ride with no sway, and plenty of clearance... too much to ask? So am I wrong that once you add air to the bags, you're unloading the leaf springs and more or less taking them out of the equation as you increase the lift? So what about the air shocks? I would think they would minimize the bounce... maybe their just worn out too. I guess it all begins with the leaf springs, huh? If they're not supporting the load, the other parts are trying to do too much? I appreciate any insight, experiences, and suggestions. Thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumolt Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Get regular shocks. Air shocks are not a good absorber of rough roads. The rest of the stuff, leaf springs and airbags are doing their job. Replace all 4 of your shocks and you'll notice a difference. It won't ever ride like a car. It's an overbuilt Toyota pickup truck with a lot of weight. I take my 2 dogs and there is room for one more. Bark, bark, bark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 ALSO - Tires. tires get hard and brittle as they age. if the tires are more than about 6 years old, consider new ones. Mine were 15 years old, when I put 7 new tires on, what a difference in the ride and handling. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dank Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Thanks for the quick response, guys. I'll definitely plan to replace the 4 shocks. Tumolt, I appreciate your advise against air shocks. I'm curious as to how much flex is expected from the leaf springs when the air bags are deflated. Mine pretty much let the frame drop to the axle (with the deflated air bags stopping further drop). I assume that the leafs were strong enough to hold it up a few inches (with an empty house) when it was all new..l else they wouldn't accomplish much. I've read on this forum about folks using leaf helpers... Is that a better option than having the leafs retempered? Also, does anyone have some non-air shocks that they're particularly happy with? Thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Air bags should never be deflated completely. They will develop leaks. Always keep at least 10 to 20 lbs in them. I usually run mine at 50 for driving. Yes good shocks are the answer. I like KYB but Bilstein is considered the best. LS Thanks for the quick response, guys. I'll definitely plan to replace the 4 shocks. Tumolt, I appreciate your advise against air shocks. I'm curious as to how much flex is expected from the leaf springs when the air bags are deflated. Mine pretty much let the frame drop to the axle (with the deflated air bags stopping further drop). I assume that the leafs were strong enough to hold it up a few inches (with an empty house) when it was all new..l else they wouldn't accomplish much. I've read on this forum about folks using leaf helpers... Is that a better option than having the leafs retempered? Also, does anyone have some non-air shocks that they're particularly happy with? Thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoblocked Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 The bump stops are riding nearly on the axle? No wonder you have a harsh ride, the coach is hitting the axle on every bump. The spring packs are shot. This is where you should start your suspension work. New shocks are good, but they won't correct your problem. I'm not a fan of re-arching, it is not cost effective. Helper springs are also a stop gap method of suspension improvement. They tend to localise weight on the wrong areas of the spring pack. Air springs (air bags) are designed to trim a vehicle, not make up for a worn out spring pack. My '92 Itasca was in the shape yours rig is in. It swayed, pitched, rolled and had an oversteer condition that I felt was downright dangerous, especially on steep downhill grades. The spring pack was worn badly. I added more new leafs, going through two iterations to get what you see in the pics. A total of 10 leafs. Then I installed beefy off road shocks to tame the wild pack and eliminated the air springs completely. They are not necessary. Notice where my bump stop is in comparison to the axle, My truck now rides like a fully loaded truck should. It's wonderful to drive. It's no longer a boat. Thanks for the quick response, guys. I'll definitely plan to replace the 4 shocks. Tumolt, I appreciate your advise against air shocks. I'm curious as to how much flex is expected from the leaf springs when the air bags are deflated. Mine pretty much let the frame drop to the axle (with the deflated air bags stopping further drop). I assume that the leafs were strong enough to hold it up a few inches (with an empty house) when it was all new..l else they wouldn't accomplish much. I've read on this forum about folks using leaf helpers... Is that a better option than having the leafs retempered? Also, does anyone have some non-air shocks that they're particularly happy with? Thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinite no longer here Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Twoblocked- Nice job on your springs and shocks! I want to do the same thing for my '85 Dolphin. Where did you get the extra leaf springs? Did you have to custom make the U-bolts? Did you use any of the old springs or is everything new? And, finally, did you do the work yourself? If so, any hot tips? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dank Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Thanks Linda and twoblocked, My airbags were losing air pretty quickly, so I thought they were shot. Discovered just yesterday that the main air fitting was leaking. Fixed that, so I believe they're holding air now... so no damage was done apparently. Twoblocked, I think my airbags ARE my bump stops... like it or not! Your 'boat' comment was right on the money - my rv would basically get into a porpoising rythm on the interstate joints like an ill-trimmed boat. I'll take your experiences to heart. Thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoblocked Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 John, I did all the work myself, it was a learning experience for sure. Suspension work is noisy, brutal stuff but I have muscles now. I went round and round on leafs, from junk yard to common Chevy and Ford stuff. I settled on Old Man Emu. They are an Australian off road supplier of suspension components. They build matched kits for the Hilux, the Aussie version of our Toyota Truck. They have a number of retail distributors in the states. http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Suspension-Systems/Emu-Dakar-Leaf-Springs/34.aspx http://www.arbusa.com/Products/Suspension-Systems/Nitrocharger-Shock-Absorbers/31.aspx Naturally, the springs I ordered were not a drop in replacement. The were too long. I used the wrong "Eye to Eye" measurement when I ordered. The pallet weighed over 300# and I didn't want to ship it back. I went through 2 blades on my horizontal band saw massaging them to the right lengths. My abrasive chop saw would just start melting its' way through. The steel in those leafs is incredibly hard. I used 2 primary and 2 secondary of the 5 original Toyota leafs and added 4 primary and 2 secondary OME's. The U-bolts were custom made at a local spring shop. I just brought in an old U-bolt and spring plate for a pattern and they made new longer ones on the spot. $12 each with nuts. They also made new center pins for me. Hot tips? Blocking up properly is important. You have to block the chassis and axle separately in order to fiddle around with the spring packs. There is a lot of tension in the pack that can let loose at the wrong time. I used a floor jack under the differential and a small hydraulic jack under the drum to get tension off the packs. (one at a time) You can tell when the tension is off, the shackle bolts will slide out easily. The Toyota pack only weighs about 40#pounds, but the new pack was 82#. Kinda tough to handle for one guy. At first I used my shop press to dismantle the spring packs, but the second time I just used 6" C-clamps. Easier. I like doing stuff myself. That's the only reason I did this. I have since learned you can get a pro shop to do the same work for about the same money I paid for parts. But the results were very rewarding and I feel it was worth the busted knuckles. Twoblocked- Nice job on your springs and shocks! I want to do the same thing for my '85 Dolphin. Where did you get the extra leaf springs? Did you have to custom make the U-bolts? Did you use any of the old springs or is everything new? And, finally, did you do the work yourself? If so, any hot tips? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I looked under my new to me 1987 dolphin no air bags on top of the axle are a pair of round coil springs bolted on and a pair of brand new air shocks. can anybody teel me anthing about this set up. did all the 80s dolphins org come with the air bags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I don't know if they were standard equipment from any manufacturer, any year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 1987 Dolphins came with standard ajustable air suspension. Don't know what happeded to yours but it didn't come that way. Look here under cab and chassis specs at the bottom http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8MjZToME5Gjn5ngTkZLQka1b5kWkzC8_2H72xcC4ACFfdCFEASrCdaDVS80_KU4vK-PLklovs--BS3LunQGvhX_G69DO7Eg/Coach%20Manufacturer%27s%20Information/Owners%20Manuals%20and%20Brochures%2C%20Etc./Dolphin%20%2B%20Seabreeze%20%28National%20RV%29/Dolphin_Seabreeze%20Sales%20Brochures/1987%20Dolphin%20Micro%20Mini.pdf LS I looked under my new to me 1987 dolphin no air bags on top of the axle are a pair of round coil springs bolted on and a pair of brand new air shocks. can anybody teel me anthing about this set up. did all the 80s dolphins org come with the air bags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBeery Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I also had sagging leaf springs (87 Dolphin). These were 5-leaf packs. I had a custom spring shop add one more leaf which was about .390 thick as opposed to the factory ones about .360 Also new bushings, U-bolts and center pins. Cost $440 in 2010. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I knew I should have looked it up as I posted, but on dial-up, it takes sooooo long to download stuff, I got lazy. But I covered my butt by saying "I don't know ...". Now I do! 1987 Dolphins came with standard ajustable air suspension. Don't know what happeded to yours but it didn't come that way. Look here under cab and chassis specs at the bottom http://f1.grp.yahoof...icro%20Mini.pdf LS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Sorry but that link is not working for me wont come up at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Try this one. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/INTaTnmC7iGniV64l1Az8moOEuedK-eXgMJPQk3w5solg83LbeigXY-gHImD2b2iTCV0qJTw5r8am31th4Vnf2vrZ1Rd3uKRGukLWEizdeB0qhBReSwH9XwU6Q/Coach%20Manufacturer%27s%20Information/Owners%20Manuals%20and%20Brochures%2C%20Etc./Dolphin%20%2B%20Seabreeze%20%28National%20RV%29/Dolphin_Seabreeze%20Sales%20Brochures/1987%20Dolphin%20Micro%20Mini.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thank you very muchDerek myn is the mod 400 22re auto everything execpt the generator . the bags probley died and somone removed them. there is a good old time heavy truck bus etc etc suspension shop here will check with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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