Rolf Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hello fellow Toymotorhomers I have been pondering the thin roof of my 91 Winnebago Warrior. Has anyone tried adding insulation to their roof? I am thinking; - remove the AC and TV antenna, and fix the holes. - cut insulation panels to fit. ( what type insulation? Is there a foam type that would especially lend itself to this use?) - glue them on - spray on a truck bed liner on top to seal it. Does anyone have any experience with this? Would the spray on liner be enough to withstand highway speed winds at the leading edge of the coach? Regards Rolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoblocked Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hello fellow Toymotorhomers I have been pondering the thin roof of my 91 Winnebago Warrior. Has anyone tried adding insulation to their roof? Why? Thin roofs save weight aloft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I had the sorrta the same plan, but the local foam co went out of business. I was going to use spray foam, they did a lot of mobile homes here to help in the winter. remove stuff, add metal or wood risers to raise things up 1 or 2", set a 1/4" plywood divider strip down the center and spray one side. They use a hot wire to cut the foam to shape and smooth it. Then remove the plywood and spray the other side and shape it. Spray bed liner over it. I was going to bring the liner down to the front clearance light to reduce the possibility of wind damage. The spray on liner guy said that even if I stopped it higher it wouldn't come lose. AH the best laid plans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel_Aggie Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 If you are talking about putting the insulation on from the outside I don't think that is workable. If you are talking about on the inside then yes, it's a viable option. A spray foam such as Air Tight Spray Foam may work very well but you will have to smooth it out yourself after they spray it. There are two types, a hard and a soft. I believe the hard is what you want in a mobile application but I'd suggest further research. There are several types of foam block insulation. You can get a couple thicknesses and styles at Home Depot or Lowe's. Owens Corning is pink and I forget who makes the white. There is also a brand I can't remember that is blue. It is often used in higher end 4 seasons RVs. I think I read about it on rv.net when did lots of research into this about 3 years ago. You can cut the foam anyway you like and it comes in different thicknesses. If you go thicker than what you have, you lose headroom of course. If you choose to glue this in, make sure you use a type of glue that will not melt the foam. Am I correct that your Winnebago has an aluminum roof? Patching the holes in a manner that would last may be a challenge. You likely have one sheet of aluminum that is one piece front to back. I had an aluminum roof on a 1990 Lance Camper that would be similar in size to yours. I priced aluminum sheeting for a new roof at about $480 in 2008. There are coatings you can paint on to the roof that will reflect heat. I had a white coating on my camper and it made a huge difference touching the coated surface and the places where it had peeled and bare aluminum was showing. You could hold your hand on the coated area on a 100 degree day but the aluminum would burn your hand in a split second. That has to keep some heat out of the RV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Two blocked: I am thinking a good 3" of insulation would weigh less than the AC, and would provide for a more comfortable coach in hot and cold conditions. The AC needs to be hooked up to shore power, and is in my mind of limited utility. WME: Sounds like we have been thinking along the same lines! Were the metal or wood risers used to make an air space beneath the foam? This would seem to leave the roof in a unwalkable state. Would not a person up there crush the spray on foam down? Diesel Aggie: It does look like my Winnebago Warrior has an aluminum roof. Thanks for the heads up on fixing. I will dig into aluminum repair and see what I am thinking of getting myself into. A wild thought, coming from my years as an armor crewman; a hatch! I have wanted an RV with a roof top hatch... maybe a marine source to get one that is very waterproof... I am thinking exterior insulation to leave as much room as possible in the interior. I am noticing how many reports there are of the spray on liner acting as a rather good insulator just by itself. As we travel and camp at times in the desert in summer, I am dreaming of really substantially increasing the insulation on the roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoblocked Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Two blocked: I am thinking a good 3" of insulation would weigh less than the AC, and would provide for a more comfortable coach in hot and cold conditions. The AC needs to be hooked up to shore power, and is in my mind of limited utility. I am thinking exterior insulation to leave as much room as possible in the interior. I am noticing how many reports there are of the spray on liner acting as a rather good insulator just by itself. As we travel and camp at times in the desert in summer, I am dreaming of really substantially increasing the insulation on the roof. I live in the desert also. My cure for this summer is to run to an 8,000FT National Forest and hang out. :>) I'm still working out the generator/AC/chilled coach problem to extend the desert camping season. The way I see it is no matter how much one insulates the roof, without a method of chilling the air, your coach will reach ambient air temperature at some point during the day. Probably by 11AM. Then you and your expensive roof are toast, or rather toasted. The coach walls and floor (three times the roof area) saturate with heat and pass it right on in. They would have to be insulated also, in order to have a more comfortable coach in hot and cold conditions. Today it is 107F here, my aluminum roofed Itasca is sitting in the sun. It is 111F in the coach and the exterior roof is 149F, the interior ceiling is 125F. The walls 118F. In other words, the coach is very hot, but it is not just the roof that is responsible for the heat. It is a very challenging problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinite no longer here Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Rolf, I think your idea of adding foam insulation to the outside of the roof is a great idea! Three inches of foam would give you a noticeable increase in insulation. You're right about the foam weighing less than the AC unit, plus the weight is spread out over the entire surface area of the roof. As for patching in the holes, why not get a fan-equipped roof hatch for the hole where the AC was? The hatch wil be the same size (14" x14") as the hole that the AC unit was in. Patching any other holes in the aluminum roof is quite easy. For instance for the hole where the antenna was, cut a round, or rectangular (with the corners rounded) piece of aluminum flashing material from the hardware store, apply some butyl putty tape to the perimeter of the underside of the patch and simply screw it down over the old hole. Be sure and apply some self-leveling sealand to the perimeter of the patch and all the screw heads after the patch is screwed down. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 WME: Sounds like we have been thinking along the same lines! Were the metal or wood risers used to make an air space beneath the foam? This would seem to leave the roof in a unwalkable state. Would not a person up there crush the spray on foam down? The risers were to raise the hatches and A/C so that then would still work. The foam is solid to the roof. Think of the riser as a frame out of 2x2 welded aluminum tubing, it would have been screwed to the roof and sealed before the foam was sprayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Two Blocked: Your points about all sides needing to be insulated are well taken. Perhaps; 3" of insulation on the roof as described. Foam sheets glued down, then covered with white truck bed liner. 1" foam glued to the interior walls. Vinyl faux wood tiles laid down over the existing carpet. Or carpet torn up, and wooden flooring laid down over 1" or so insulation. Add an awning to my awning-less Warrior, and point that side at the rising sun. It is true that even the above would not prevent an RV, parked in the desert sun, from eventually reaching the day's temp. Though, it would surely be a much slower process than with the stock RV. Here's a long thread over at the Burning Man forums about rigging your own 12V powered swamp cooler. It is an interesting read, even if just for the testing that went on and for the evolving design. http://eplaya.burningman.com/viewtopic.php?t=33842&highlight=swamp+cooler John, are you thinking of a larger version of the little ventilation hatches already in place on the Warrior? The one in the bathroom has a electric exhaust fan. A twist handle opens the plastic cover, and a bug screen is at the level of the ceiling. Rolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Perhaps something along the lines of the Land Rover 'Series' Safari Roof. "Station Wagons were fitted with a "Safari Roof" which consisted of a second roof skin fitted on top of the vehicle. This kept the interior cool in hot weather and reduced condensation in cold weather." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Land_Rover_Series_1_HT.jpg Carry around your own shade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoblocked Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Here's a long thread over at the Burning Man forums about rigging your own 12V powered swamp cooler. It is an interesting read, even if just for the testing that went on and for the evolving design. http://eplaya.burnin...ht=swamp+cooler Rolf That's a great link, thanks. Got me thinking swamp coolers again. As I sit here being cooled by a 900CFM unit on the roof of my house... The thing that put me off on using one in the MH was all the water (extra weight) you would have to carry. But if you can ditch the 95# AC that is not an issue. The key is plenty of CFM across the pad. A substantial squirrel cage blower under the dinette seat, with a exterior screened baggage door to hold the pad? If all you were concerned about was dispersed desert summer camping, you wouldn't need to insulate as you would have to have the windows open anyway to let the swamp cooler function. I think you would need a decent battery/inverter system, though, to push enough air through the camper to make it feasible. The little computer fans at Burning Man just ain't gonna hack in our world. The other issue is humidity. At 5%RH evaporative coolers work like champs. I get almost 30 degrees DeltaT. At 25%RH no such luck. I switch to AC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 If the goal is to reduce the ceiling temperature inside the coach, To be honest, I think you'll be disappointed with the results. Yes adding 3 inches of insulation to your roof will reduce the amount of heat that gets transferred from the top surface of the roof, down to the lower surface of the ceiling. How much of a reduction would depend on the color of the roof (how much heat energy its currently absorbing) and how well the insulation is able to block radiant heat, convective heat, and conductive heat between it top and bottom surfaces. The better solution would be to simply paint your roof a very glossy white. This color absorbs very little heat energy (from the sun), therefore the roof temperature will be very close to ambient outside air temperature. Next time your walking through a parking lot on a nice sunny warm day, touch the hood of a black car, then touch the hood of a white car. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 24, 2011 Author Share Posted June 24, 2011 John: I am in full agreement on a glossy reflective coat atop the roof helping keep the RV cool. I think, though, that insulation would play a real role in keeping the RV comfortable in extremes of temperature. And when the RV is parked in 100+F heat in the desert, insulation will slow the transition from night time coolness to being an oven. I found this link on foam. I am thinking either polystyrene or minicel. http://www.closedcellfoams.com/ And this link on spray on brush on or roll on truck bed liner. Their main point is to rough up aluminum surfaces, which would be a must on my Warrior. http://www.herculiner.com/instructions.html Rolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 If you can get the roof to ambient temperature, that will be a big reduction on heating/cooling requirements, I don't believe insulating the roof will gain you a lot until you deal with the other loose sources. i believe your going to find that the biggest source of heat loose is going to be the windows and the roof vents. as these offer no insulating qualities. I have brand new roof vents, they are air tight, but they conduct heat through that thin layer of plastic very well. Walls, floor are probably next, then the access panels on the outside, battery, propane, generator, water heater, etc. The Access panels on my Dolphin are not air tight. I find when the wind is blowing, I can feel the drafts when I open cabinets. Heres an idea I wish I would have thought of 6 months ago when it was -10 Deg outside: We have a Thermal imager at work, I think I can barrow it for a couple hours and see where the heat looses are. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 If I keep my Dolphin, I'll probably do something, either the bed liner or paint the roof with the RV Roof stuff (a rubbery substance) I've heard people talk about the bed liner on the roof, Sounds interesting. I was looking on their web site to see if they had this in white. Has anyone else done this, I 'd be curious as to their experience. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85mirage Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 If you also have holes in roof you might try a new rubber roof. I've installed rubber roofs/epdm on homes and to begin you lay down 1/2 to 3/4 thick cardboard like 4'x8' sheets of underlayment which the rubber adheres to. Which i guess would add insulation to RV. Although then you'd end up with a black roof which you'd have to paint white like others have said. But think of the double durability of it! New roof and roof coating! I guess you could double up the board which is cheap. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Just keep in mind any weight you add that high up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 tHERE IS ACOMPANY THAT MAKES A 12 VOLT SWAMP COOLER CALLED TURBO COOL DRAWES WATER OUT OF TANK OR OTHER SOURSE IT IS THE SISE OF A VENT WT IS 16 LBS AFRIEND OF MYN HAD ONE ON A WINABAGO IT IS MADE LIKE A STANDERD COOLER BUT 12 VOLT ONLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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