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Rare find - dually front hubs

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So treat me like I know nothing (like normal).  First what else has to change to swap this out besides the rim?  The rotor mounts to this hub, I get that but is it the same rotor?  Everything else the same?  Will this fit on say a 85 Sunrader? (asking for a friend).  23 days left to the auction if they stick around.  My "friend" will know more about the Sunrader Friday.  Oh and bearings press in?

Edited by Back East Don

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I'll see Back East Don, and raise, and say I know less.....   :clown2:   Dunno about bearings or year application, but here's what my inner Italian is channeling about this ....While I am currently committed to my existing setup, compliments of the PO (Stockton wheels in the back and and common steel spokes in the front, with same diameter/tire size, but different offsets), (spare for front only) I have an observation/question.  I've often wondered about when people talk about making the leap from different size wheels in the back/front and getting one single spare (the Grail) etc. It would seem like all seven wheels are going to need to be same-sized , and, should have the same amount of "dish" or offset to work right on any wheel without chafing and also to keep the steering geometry right, eh ? (ie. Blow-out on front Left, change wheel, now,  driving/w shallow dish on front Right, deeper dish on front Left, yeow !). I admit, I'm a bit outta my league here, but I have also heard about rocks becoming lodged between rear duallies sidewalls, even with correct clearance between tires. So,..  Is having all 7 wheels  identical in size and offset the correct path to the much-sought-after "multi-use, single-spare" of legend ?

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54 minutes ago, Back East Don said:

So treat me like I know nothing (like normal). 

What the heck does that imply?

The 6 lug hubs have the same bearings as the 5 lug hubs.   So you just take the old hubs off put the 6 lug hubs on.  If the bearing races are good in the 6 lug hubs - then nothing to be pressed in, or out.  Just use the bearing races in the 6 lug hubs and bearing cones from the 5 lug hubs - lube, adjust, and that's it.  Rotor bolts to the hubs and in the case of a 1985 - I do not know if the rotors from the 5 lug setup will fit. I suspect not. I think (and maybe someone will correct me) - that 5 lug hubs for 5 lug wheels have rotors with 5 mounting holes.  6 lug hubs for 6 lug wheels have rotors with 6 mounting holes. 

I've never done the changeover on a 1985. I've only done it on older rigs with coil-spring front-suspensions and those have totally different brakes.

I assume (but am not sure) - for a complete change - you need two hubs, two rotors. two brake-caliper brackets and maybe two calipers. It is possible the old calipers do not need to be changed but I am not sure on an 85.

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3 minutes ago, ToyoGuy said:

  Is having all 7 wheels  identical in size and offset the correct path to the much-sought-after "multi-use, single-spare" of legend ?

Plenty around like that.   My 1988 Minicruiser has one spare to fit front or back and Toyota designed it so all wheels have the same off-set.  The 1987 box-truck I stripped was the same.   Same with my ugly 1978 Chinook except with that - I did all the change-over work.  Certainly did not come from the factory like that. 

I know of many duals on Toyotas in 185R-14C, 185/75-14, and 195/75-14 that worked fine on bad rocky roads and I've never heard of rocks getting wedge inbetween to be any special issue. I do most of my travel on gravel roads and I certainly have had no problems.

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28 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

What the heck does that imply?

A feeble attempt at humor that didn't hit the mark.  Trying to keep it light. Long day and used up too many pithy comments.  I think I ran out.

Thanks for the info.  I got lots of useful stuff done today in planning for the what if and this post came up.  Will have time to figure it out what ever the outcome on the Sunrader as it still remains the goal even if I don't buy the one I am looking at Friday.

Edited by Back East Don

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Thanks jdemaris, I hate to think what the PO paid for these custom rear wheels,about $300 per, I believe. The offset is about 8-8.5" and my front spokes are about 5". Guess I'll just keep good rubber all around for the time being.

Y'know,....  that paint scheme on your '78 Chinook is starting to grow on me. Might have to seek professional help on that one. :)

TG

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From what I can remember this is about 1/2 of what you need to update the 5 bolt to a 6 bolt. The missing part is the 6 bolt hub.  The "easy" way to do this conversion is to get everything, from the uprights, hubs, brakes, rotors AND the adapters. This only works with the torsion bar front end.

 

   

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2 hours ago, Back East Don said:

A feeble attempt at humor that didn't hit the mark.  Trying to keep it light. Long day and used up too many pithy comments.  I think I ran out.

Thanks for the info.  I got lots of useful stuff done today in planning for the what if and this post came up.  Will have time to figure it out what ever the outcome on the Sunrader as it still remains the goal even if I don't buy the one I am looking at Friday.

Back East Don there are several Sunraders out here in the Wild Wild West!  There is a 1988 18ft nissan with v-6 and 5spd manual, that should be a little hot rod right there, it is in Spokaine WA and I think there is a 1985 18ft with nissans bullet proof z-24 8 spark plug 4cyl with 5spd tranny.  And lastly there is a pretty clean 21 ft in albuquerque NM that I might be abLe to go check out for you but it's an automatic.  All are in the $5-6k range.  

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Where did you see a V6 Nissan listed. One of our members in Washington is looking. I see nothing on craigslist

Linda S

Well I found where it was. Gone in a day. Got to be fast looking for Sunraders

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10 hours ago, Back East Don said:

A feeble attempt at humor that didn't hit the mark.  Trying to keep it light. Long day and used up too many pithy comments.  I think I ran out.

Thanks for the info.  I got lots of useful stuff done today in planning for the what if and this post came up.  Will have time to figure it out what ever the outcome on the Sunrader as it still remains the goal even if I don't buy the one I am looking at Friday.

I did a changeover on a 78 Chinook with coil-spring suspension and that was NOT easy.  I am the only such truck I've ever seen where it was done.  Maybe other owners have better things to do with their time..

On a 1985 - finding those hubs is the main issue because you are not going to get them aftermarket.  That and the brake-caliper-brackets IF you need them.  The rest is easy.  New calipers, pads, and rotors are dirt-cheap at places like Rock Auto.  Note - if you have a friend who wants to do such a change and decides the brake-caliper-brackets are needed - I have a pair I'd sell cheap.  I have them left-over from when I changed over my 1978 Chinook to 6 lug.  No way could I adapt 1987 brakes to my 1978 Chinook so I still have those brackets. I only used the hubs.

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10 hours ago, ToyoGuy said:

Y'know,....  that paint scheme on your '78 Chinook is starting to grow on me. Might have to seek professional help on that one. :)

TG

I bought that Chinook in Maine from a Cajun kid from Louisiana.  He was travelling, but got stopped in Maine with a broken windshield. I bought it for $500.   He painted it with a spray can.  I am still trying to find a way to remove that layer of paint but save the still-existing Chinook MPG lettering and decals underneath. It is TOUGH stuff.  Acetone won't touch it.

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I compared brake rotors between a 1985 HD cab & chassis with single rear wheels - versus - a 1988 HD cab & chassis with a full floater and dual rear wheels.  Both rotors are the same size.  One mounts with 5  bolts and the other with 6 bolts.  Since they are the same thickness and diameter, it makes me think the old brake mounts and calipers will work.  Again - I am not 100% sure.  Ask Totem on this forum. He changed his over and not sure what he had to use.

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14 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

I compared brake rotors between a 1985 HD cab & chassis with single rear wheels ...

But is the '1985 HD cab & chassis with single rear wheels' the same as the '1-Ton (SRW)' and would that use the same as a 'regular' 1985 1/2-Ton?

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7 hours ago, Bryan C said:

Back East Don there are several Sunraders out here in the Wild Wild West!  There is a 1988 18ft nissan with v-6 and 5spd manual, that should be a little hot rod right there, it is in Spokaine WA and I think there is a 1985 18ft with nissans bullet proof z-24 8 spark plug 4cyl with 5spd tranny.  And lastly there is a pretty clean 21 ft in albuquerque NM that I might be abLe to go check out for you but it's an automatic.  All are in the $5-6k range.  

I've gone that route before like when I bought a Toyota Landcruiser in CA.  It takes some doing and resources.  I'm well traveled and getting on a plane is not a big deal but as Linda put it, they are often gone in a day.  That is for anything worth buying or else the ones left are prohibitively expensive.  Right now I am playing the long game.  I have my Itasca that perfectly serves our needs.  It is not just some on this forum that think I'm a bit crazy for wanting to restore another one.  My wife knows I'm off my rocker but also knows that once I put my mind to something, it gets done.

You described my thinking when you said you found your forever Sunrader.  I did more than a decent job on the Itasca but I've a vision that started when I found this picture.  I could do the same treatment to the Itasca but it still won't have the rear dinette.  I would also have to tear it down again and lose use of it for however long it took to get done and I don't want to be rushed with this project.  So this picture has become the grail I seek. 

I don't know what is up with the Sunrader I am looking at Friday or the seller but it is only a couple hours away.  I found his listing really early and emailed him.  Took two attempts though to get a reply and we had a lot of back and forth after he told me it was still available.  I was prepared to get in my truck that afternoon or the next day and was surprised when he indicated the best time for him would be the end of the week.  He says he has it stored at a farm and if I were to speculate, probably with family and he doesn't live nearby.  Even with one with a dead clutch and needing an engine, if it is as he claims, it might be worth the price as it it cheap enough.  I can do the mechanical work in addition to the cabinet making required to get what my heart wants.  Thanks for the generous offer to be my eyes.  I might just be warming up to you after all.

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1 hour ago, jdemaris said:

I did a changeover on a 78 Chinook with coil-spring suspension and that was NOT easy.  I am the only such truck I've ever seen where it was done.  Maybe other owners have better things to do with their time..

On a 1985 - finding those hubs is the main issue because you are not going to get them aftermarket.  That and the brake-caliper-brackets IF you need them.  The rest is easy.  New calipers, pads, and rotors are dirt-cheap at places like Rock Auto.  Note - if you have a friend who wants to do such a change and decides the brake-caliper-brackets are needed - I have a pair I'd sell cheap.  I have them left-over from when I changed over my 1978 Chinook to 6 lug.  No way could I adapt 1987 brakes to my 1978 Chinook so I still have those brackets. I only used the hubs.

This whole post is full of great information so thanks for that.  Two hurdles I'll need to get over.  First is actually needing these.  The second I'd have to decide which route to take with regard to spare tires in general. I can do like some and carry two or only one front and if I get a flat in the rear, call for assistance.  If I were to stay camping only local, the one front spare would likely be the choice.  Can always turn it into another project if I change my mind.  Totem might just chime in and fill in the rest of the gaps but this post is a good primer on the topic and would get anyone looking to do this started.

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30 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

But is the '1985 HD cab & chassis with single rear wheels' the same as the '1-Ton (SRW)' and would that use the same as a 'regular' 1985 1/2-Ton?

All someone has to do is order for an RV with single wheels and "3W" at the end of its ID.    On a 1985, five-lug rotors come in 9.76" diamater (light duty) and in 10.1" diameter (heavy duty for 3W).  Terms like "1 ton" are kind of useless and meaningless in parts catalogs.

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I don't know if the 1-Ton SRW would be a source for heavier duty parts. I've never seen details comparing it to the 1/2-Ton or 1-Ton DRW. If anyone anted to research it further, I saved the VIN for a 1-Ton SRW that was on EBay a few years back. (JT4RN55E4F0117843) I think Linda looked up a few parts in the past, but I don't recall which ones.

Yes, JD, I realize that the 'X-Ton' designation isn't technically 'correct' but I think we all pretty much understand what we're referring to. Something like 'Air Bags' vs. 'Air Springs'. :)

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Yes, we here on this forum understand, but we have esoteric context.  When a person tries to buy parts via a parts catalog at NAPA, Rock Auto, etc. - that is where the "ton" thing goes awry.   To be sure - you either have to see a "3W" in the parts listing.  Or do a VIN search, get a Toyota part #, and then cross at a place like Rock Auto.  To Rock's credit - they often give OEM Toyota numbers.  Of course, a person can also just measure their rotor and then buy by dimensions.

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42 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

I don't know if the 1-Ton SRW would be a source for heavier duty parts. I've never seen details comparing it to the 1/2-Ton or 1-Ton DRW. If anyone anted to research it further, I saved the VIN for a 1-Ton SRW that was on EBay a few years back. (JT4RN55E4F0117843) I think Linda looked up a few parts in the past, but I don't recall which ones.

That VIN offers two choices and two different rotors.  The smaller rotors for a 4 cylinder and bigger with a 6 cylinder. Here are the Toyota #s and some crosses to aftermarket.

VIN# JT4RN55E4F0117843

 

Toyota # 4351235081 for 4 cylinder engine and single rear wheels

9 3/4" diameter,  Beck Arnley # 0832075

 

 Toyota # 4351235180 for 6 cylinder engine and single rear wheels

10.1" diameter Wagner BD60804           

  

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So the mystery continues. :)

But since that's a 1985 VIN, it's obviously not a V6.

2 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

That VIN offers two choices and two different rotors.  The smaller rotors for a 4 cylinder and bigger with a 6 cylinder. Here are the Toyota #s and some crosses to aftermarket.

VIN# JT4RN55E4F0117843

 

 

 

Toyota # 4351235081 for 4 cylinder engine and single rear wheels

 

9 3/4" diameter,  Beck Arnley # 0832075

 

 

 

 Toyota # 4351235180 for 6 cylinder engine and single rear wheels

 

10.1" diameter Wagner BD60804           

  

 

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4 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

So the mystery continues. :)

But since that's a 1985 VIN, it's obviously not a V6.

 

No mystery that I can see.  Just different databases with different descriptions.   I looked at half-a-dozen Toyota databases.  That VIN alone will not tell you what rotor you need.  Like I said before, the actual model is what is needed - like with a "3W" at the end.

Here's info from a different database - same part #s but classes the vehicles a little different.

2WD 1/2 ton uses Toyota # 43512-35081 for rotors (smaller diameter)

2WD 1 ton AND 2WD heavy-duty use Toyota # 43512-35180 (larger diameter)

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By the way - a 1985 Toyota motorhome uses this truck and that is what tells you exactly what parts are needed. "3W" at the end is the key.

A 1985 uses a RN55L-KREA 3W or a RN55L-KDEA 3W. 

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I don't KNOW if a 1985 motorhome uses the same as that truck. The VIN I posted above was for a 1-Ton SRW pickup, not a motorhome.

'3W' is great. Even greater if it was incorporated in the VIN or somewhere else that Joe Public could easily find and know when buying parts. :)

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This is exactly what I'm looking to do to my 1985 Rogue RV. Does anybody have a list of the parts I'd need?

It looks so far like I need a hub (adapter?) like the picture I attached, but with 5-lug on the inside as I currently have the standard 5 on 4.5 wheel on the front of my RV. Or do I need to get a Toyota 6-lug hub and then these exact adapters?

Or, as I look closer, it looks like these replace the 5-lug hubs and I just need to get 6-lug rotors and bolt them to these hubs from behind. Then I need the correct calipers, pads, and brackets to work with the new rotors. Someone please set me straight.

Does anybody have a part number for these or a lead to where to get them used?

I have not yet located a picture of one. However, I've found this (second pic) of a 5-to-5 lug dually wheel adapter, which of course would not work as my dually wheels are 6-lug.

For reference, I've added a photo of my RV (third pic). I just want to have one wheel type instead of 2.

My vin is JT5RN55D9F0141235 and I have no idea how to decode it. Yet.

After the adapter, I'm guessing I'll need rims, lugs, tires, and maybe larger rotors, calipers, and correct pads.

Any and all help is appreciated. Fourth pic is of my current, hopefully temporary, solution.

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5-to-5 dually rim on front of toyota pickup.jpg

1985 Rogue RV August 2015.JPG

1985 Rogue RV Spare Tire Solution 20171009.JPG

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Plan A  Call Custom and Commercial Wheels and see if they still make the Toyota 5/6 front adapter. 909 357 3505. They have NO WEB SITE.

Plan B Find a salvage yard and get the complete front assy from a C&C-MH. Trying to buy new parts using PN is going to cost more than you paid for the MH.

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Just called the dude, and he still sells them for $386/ pair. To be clear, he stated this is just an adapter (not hub) that bolts the 5 on 4.5 hub to the proper 6-lug dually rim and comes with all the hardware needed.

Does anybody have any reason NOT to use these? The guy was really cool and stated he made the adapters for Toyota before they made them all one piece. He said there's no part number but just ask and he knows what they are. Thanks for the sweet lead!

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22 minutes ago, Andymon said:

Thanks, but Yahoo! is giving me a hard time with those links...

you have to join the group to see the pics. Not a bad idea anyway. Another resource that can be helpful and their files section is easier for me to find stuff than here and I'm a moderator here.

Linda S the dumb moderator

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