Snow Camping Questions for Skiers or Riders

[paulnptld]

While the Dolphin may not be the ideal vehicle for camping overnight at our local ski hill near Portland, it's going to happen nonetheless.

First: Winter tires. Do any of you have recommendations on snow tires for our little RVs? Studded vs. studless? What about chains? With snow tires will they even be needed?

Second: Temps on Mt. Hood don't typically get much colder than the teens at night, even in winter. What should I do to make sure we're all comfortable and warm? Are there any 'winterizing' precautions that I should take? Will the propane heat from the interior keep exterior lines from freezing?

Mt. Hood Meadows, Mt. Bachelor, and various other NW ski areas do allow overnight camping for up to a week. Even though I'm loving the summer weather, I'm dreaming of the pow pow and fun nights spent bundled up in the Dolphin.

[MontanaChinook]

Doesn't get very cold around Portland, does it? You may not have much to worry about.

Except tires...not much out there for our trucks...

In my little Chinook in a Montana September, one little blast of heat in the morning, along with cooking breakfast, was plenty of heat. Maybe not for a baby though! Requirements change when you've got one of those, I hear

September in the mountains here can easily have lows in the 30s.

[bufbooth]

^{You probably could go with chains/cables for the front tires, but not sure about any on the rear duellys.}

[bufbooth]

_{regarding 'winterizing' precautions, I would not count on the heater to keep the water lines from freezing, and if it could,}

_{you would have to also run the heater while skiing. One option is to use RV antifreeze to give you non-drinkable water}

_{for the bathroom.}

[linda s]

Snow tires would be very expensive but they are available. Chains are required to be put on rear tires here in california so I don't know if that would work either. If you need to be warm inside you need hookups. The furnace will run your battery dead before the night is through. helps to make reflectix covers for all windows at night. use rv anti freeze in your water tank but be sure to run some of it through the lines and into holding tanks. Fresh water in bottles. It can be done but take a lot of planning

Linda S

[WME]

With planning its possible, but even then there limits on what can be done. Some things Ive learned.
1. Reflectix is good, there is no such thing as too much. I had window shields, I also covered the wall under the seats and in the cabinets.
2. Full winterziation. Carry bottle water for drinking, flush with a mix of rv antifreeze, forget about showers.
3. Have 2 coach batteries. Use AGM batts so you can keep them inside and warm. A battery at 0 degrees loses %50 of its capacity.
4. A solar panel is needed to keep up the batteries. OR plan on at least an hour of driving each day.
I've camped for 3 days in 0 degree weather before my batteries were exhausted. I had 210 Ah worth of AGM batteries and a 100w solar panel. But with clouds the solar panel could not keep up. The heater runs about 30% of the time
5. Unless there is chain law in effect a Toy with duals has an amazing amount of traction, braking not so much just be careful.
I once spent 1 night at -30 with 110v . The electric space heater ran 100% and my propane heater still ran at %50. Funny thing I found was at COLD temps propane doesn't evaporate very good. I couldn't run my stove to cook on and the heater at the same time.
WME.

[waiter]

Chains for the tires (One set to be installed on the outside tire of dully)

Winterize the water system before you leave, and then don't use it.

Use bottle water for cooking, drinking

Flush toilet with windshield washer fluid

Use Mr Buddy heater for heat (Modified to use coach propane system)

I made window covers out of that metalized bubble-wrap stuff.


John Mc

88 Dolphinj 4 Auto

[motoyhomme]

How did you guys handle braking? I had good traction from the rear on snowy roads but trying to stop increased the pucker factor. Soon as the front disks grabbed hold it would cause the front end to start sliding either left or right depending which way the road sloped and I was driving very very slow.

Allen

[waiter]

Braking in snow / ice. = Enter your toyhouse in the Winter Bobsled races.

Drive slow, leave a lot of room for braking, keep options open, (i.e. go onto shoulder, switch lanes, etc if sliding)

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[paulnptld]

That does it. It sounds like chains are going to need to happen. The whole braking thing is pretty important up on Mt. Hood.

[WME]

Some where there is a long set of posts about adjusting the rear bias brake valve. Most of our toys still have the factory setting and its good for an empty pickup, not a loaded RV . The factory setting gives the front brakes about 80% of the braking force. That is why the fronts lock so easy on ice.

WME

[motoyhomme]

Some where there is a long set of posts about adjusting the rear bias brake valve. Most of our toys still have the factory setting and its good for an empty pickup, not a loaded RV . The factory setting gives the front brakes about 80% of the braking force. That is why the fronts lock so easy on ice.

WME

My Toyota had the valve set and locked to give more power to the rear wheel brakes, but still it wanted to slide at the front.

Allen

[zero]

Some where there is a long set of posts about adjusting the rear bias brake valve. Most of our toys still have the factory setting and its good for an empty pickup, not a loaded RV . The factory setting gives the front brakes about 80% of the braking force. That is why the fronts lock so easy on ice.

WME

If a Toyota gets an RV body on it and the valve is left set as if it was just a bare pickup truck - it should work just as designed and give more braking force to the rear due to the extra weight. Your statement has me a little confused. If left with the factory setting it should behave like an overloaded pickup - which it is.

Also - about the valve. It does not change the overall braking force front to back. It just delays it for a moment when the pedal is first pushed.

[ShaggyRV]

I took my 85 Granville up to Canaan Valley here in Wet Virginia last winter. Snowed the whole way up. I never slid once! When I arrived there was about 8 in of fresh snow in the campground. no problems! It got down in the low 20's at night. I did have shore power. I used a small ceramic heater and it would run you out of the RV. The furnace never had to come on because of the electric heat. On the way home I was nervous about descending the mountains but again had no issues. I downshifted the auto trans to a lower gear and kept my speed down. These rigs are heavy so they don't slide easily on snow. Ice is a different story for any vehicle!

I also used my RV during hunting season with temps in the 20's at night. I have one battery and it ran my furnace through the night no problems. stayed nice and warm. I did run my generator every morning for 30-60 minutes to keep the charge up. I wouldn't recommend trying to use the water system if its gonna be real cold.

[WME]

The valve confuses a lot of people. First its mechincal not electronic.

On a standard empty PU the bias is lots of front brakes because there is no traction on the rear. Loaded, the rear sets lower and the valve sends more brake to the rear, because there is more traction.

A toy MH has 4 tires so more traction, BUT the first thing that happens is airbags. Now your toy has more traction because of the extra 1 ton of weight and with 4 tires but it is setting level because of the heavy springs and airbags. Level to the bias valve means empty truck so it sends the brake force to the fronts.

What you need to do is raise the bar for the valve so that it thinks loaded PU and sends more brake to the rear. Trial and error will get you to the point where the fronts lockup just before the rears, On my toy that setting was the bar wired up to the frame

[Bob C]

WME-I never thought about how the airbags affected my brake valve. I will have to look into this in the near future.

[paulnptld]

I was in Hood River this weekend watching people kiteboard, and saw a Dolphin in the parking lot. I walked up and spoke to the owner. The good news is that she said it has been bombproof in even the nastiest weather on Mount Hood. She showed me a picture with 12 inches of fresh powder covering her Toyhome. She added that it stayed toasty warm inside using just the propane heater.

She said traction in the snow has been fantastic and that in three years of ownership she's never needed to use chains. So I find myself encouraged!

[ORrogue]

Hey Paul

Are you riding at Meadows only? I've done some truck camping at Skibowl (pow days). Just ride into the night before warming up at the Stube and retiring to my vehicle. I'll be trying it this year for the first time with my Toy. Maybe I'll see ya out there!

[zero]

I put a $25 manual valve on mine. Has a little thumb-wheel and it's mounted under the hood by the master cylinder. Very easy to use and adjust. Regardless if what is used (aftermarket) or the OEM unit - they are just pressure -delay valves . They change nothing in sustained brake pressures. They only delay the pressure signal when first activated for a second or two and that's it. Seems to be a useless device on a Toyota RV that is heavy all the time. Where I live - I've yet to see one that works after it's been on the road for 10 years - regardless if Toyota,GM or Ford. They rust and get stuck.

I put the manual valve on mine because my braking system is not as designed and is a hybrid. Front has 1/2 ton brakes, rear has 1 ton brakes and oversize wheel cylinders, and I've got a 1 ton master-cylinder under the hood. Installing the manual valve made it easy to balance out the brakes.

[Maineah]

I would say it would be all most impossible to lock up the rear brakes on a full size Toy home no matter how hard you try. I removed the valve no levers or rods just full pressure fluid to the rear.I observed no improvement pretty much the same as the valve in the loaded position they will not lockup because there is too much weight and not enough brake with a lot of breaking on the rear unlike an empty truck or the average car. The ideal with the pickup was to keep the rear brakes from locking with no weight in the bed when it sat high there was limited pressure. Fluid pressure is instant it does not compress the rear valve is a proportioning valve it just reduces the port size. They are what they are it’s a lot of weight for a little truck. The fronts will lockup mostly because there is little weight shift and plenty of brake for the weight.

[Odyssey4x4]

A little preparation and you'll be fine for your ski trips. I'm up in Alaska living full-time in my Toyota RV and have some tips from you. Don't have time to type right now, but go to

www.timmystoyota.blogspot.com

http://timmystoyota.blogspot.com/

Check it out, maybe it will help you a bit. Have fun on the mountain!

Timmy

I added a clickable link cause everyone should read your blog

Linda S

[MontanaChinook]

Practical Isotope what??

[Tom W]

Good point about the air bags raising the rear confusing the valve

[paulnptld]

Hey Paul

Are you riding at Meadows only? I've done some truck camping at Skibowl (pow days). Just ride into the night before warming up at the Stube and retiring to my vehicle. I'll be trying it this year for the first time with my Toy. Maybe I'll see ya out there!

Hey ORrogue: Riding Meadows, although I'll probably make a stop or two at Ski Bowl this season. Also planning some long weekends at Bachelor and Whistler. If you're at Meadows, look for the Dolphin. I'll be up there most weekends. Tons of pow falling right now, so let's hope for an early opening.

[Skyhighlivin]

Great thread topic going here. My wife and I just bought our first toyota rig, it's a 1983 toyota sunrader 18ft. We live in hood river and spend time all over the PNW skiing. I've already gotten a bunch of good info from this thread, but I have a few follow up questions:

1- any recommendations for supply stores in the hood river/ portland area. For example, RV antifreeze? Chains?

2- can I use my honda generator to run the power in my rig at night while I am camping?

3- propane heater and a mr buddy? Can I do one or the other?

4- we are just taking ownership. It's a 30 year old rig. Any recommendations for RV mechanic in hood river/ portland area that I should use when the time comes for help?

5- what is the favorite snow or all season tires of choice for these rigs? We are gonna be year round users.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Skyhighlivin

[Derek up North]

Re #5

The only snow tire that I know of in 'our' correct 185R14 Load Range D is from Nokian:-

http://www.tiresbyweb.com/tbw_tiresearchadv2.aspx?treadwidth=185&profile=&rimsize=14&Winter=1&Pageindex=1&choice2=All

The Hankook RA08 is listed as '4 Season'. I don't know how effective they are in real Winter conditions though hopefully better than those listed as 'Summer'.

[WME]

Running a generator past 9:00PM is bad form. Get solar panel and 2 house batteries to be neighborly and warm.

[Derek up North]

I'm not too sure how intrusive the noise from a Honda generator would be while Winter camping when all(?) the other campers would probably have their windows closed. If there are any other Winter campers. And if they aren't running their own generators to stop from freezing to death.

[linda s]

I'm not too sure how intrusive the noise from a Honda generator would be while Winter camping when all(?) the other campers would probably have their windows closed. If there are any other Winter campers. And if they aren't running their own generators to stop from freezing to death.

Yes I think exceptions should be made in the winter. Most big rigs run their diesels generators all the time unless hooked up somewhere. I've been near a camper running a honda all night even when my windows were open and I barely heard it

Linda S

[Maineah]

I really like the Kimberly stove Timmy has and I still do despite the price but for $3,750 I think I'll pass I was however looking at this one--http://www.sigmarine.com/SIG-CCH.html they also make diesel heaters but the little one would be warm enough for most winter outings. The cozy Cabin one is about the same price as a replacement RV furnace but no noise. If I can heat my space with a 1000 watt electric heater I see no reason this one wouldn't work just fine. The main reason I like it is because it is vented no moisture no fumes.

[paulnptld]

Great thread topic going here. My wife and I just bought our first toyota rig, it's a 1983 toyota sunrader 18ft. We live in hood river and spend time all over the PNW skiing. I've already gotten a bunch of good info from this thread, but I have a few follow up questions:

1- any recommendations for supply stores in the hood river/ portland area. For example, RV antifreeze? Chains?

- I purchase two sets of chains for my Dolphin at Les Schwab. They're easy to put on, relatively speaking. $89/set.

2- can I use my honda generator to run the power in my rig at night while I am camping?

- I'd recommend against using your generator at night. I have a Powerhouse 2000 watt inverter generator with remote start. Only plan on using it during the day while I'm on the slopes. Even at that, I'm doubting I'll really need it.

3- propane heater and a mr buddy? Can I do one or the other?

- Big yes on the Mr. Buddy! I have the "Big Buddy" and it's fantastic. I purchased an extra 20lb propane tank. You'll literally be able to keep your Toyhome warm for over a week if you keep the Buddy heater on low or medium. Incidentally I was able to keep my Toyhome in the 80s while temps were in the teens just a week or so ago.

4- we are just taking ownership. It's a 30 year old rig. Any recommendations for RV mechanic in hood river/ portland area that I should use when the time comes for help?

- Avoid Woodburn Automotive like the plague. Nightmare. Blue Lake RV in Troutdale did a few things for me, and the work seemed good.

5- what is the favorite snow or all season tires of choice for these rigs? We are gonna be year round users.

- I'd really suggest relying on chains instead of spending the money on new tires.

[Skyhighlivin]

Thanks for the the info everyone. We will be bringing it home next weekend. Psyched!

We are gonna get some chains and a "big buddy" on the way home....

Follow up with tires:

My first rig with 6 tires. If I go with snow tires, or even high quality all seasons, do I need them on all 6? Sorta silly question I guess, but how does the 4 in the back distribute out?

Thanks

[Derek up North]

On a dually rear axle, all four tires should be the same diameter. Hard to do with mismatched tires.

[kayakthecoast]

Another heat option is to plumb in a quick connect into your propane line and use a very efficient propane catalytic safety heater. I use a wave 3 Heater I think made by Olympian. I have a quick connect flexible gas hose (this is not code) it should be copper, but I'm careful and want to be able to move it around the camper. Great for ski trips. I'll attach some pics when I get home. I use the onboard propane heater with its blower fan (the reason it drains your coach battery if you run it all night) and thermostat to get the cabin warmed up and overnight use my quick connect wave 3 heater which is quiet as a church mouse! Crack a window or 2 to allow some airflow.

I also place my water container in fairly close proximity to it so it does not freeze, and a must to do is fill up the kettle before you doze off! So in the morning you can light the stove top kettle and have a cup of joe. Trying to get frozen water into your kettle is a frustrating experience. Enjoy toy skiing we do! White Pass (free parking lot)and mt Rainier are my usual spots. Get yourself a wearable sleeping bag (Selk Bag) with arms and legs my son lives in his!