Looking for help figuring out model make etc. to buy.

[GrantD]

Hello all, this is my first post on this forum. I don't have an RV (yet), but I am trying to learn. My wife and i have been talking a lot about the fun we could have taking our kids out for some adventures (now 2 and other almost 6 years old, both girls).

First, my mentality, I am not too much of a "fix it" guy, and I really really don't know how to fix cars. So initially I was mortified at the thought of getting some kind of motorhome, and being subjected to all kinds of things that need to be maintained/break etc. Anyhow, after a lot of thinking and looking around I started thinking that maybe a Toyota would be a good fit as Toyota trucks have a great reliability record. I also am not interested in driving around a huge Semi-Bus rig, but would want at least a toilet, stove, fridge, and sleeps 4. Would probably prefer bunks for the kids over a 2nd bed but the models I've seen pictures of of the Toyota's I have yet to see bunks.

Our budget will probably be in the $5k range, possibly a bit higher, I hear the best time to look for an RV is in the Fall or Winter?

If any of you have experiences with these, are the Toyota's more reliable than other motorhome/ RV's? If any of you have other models to point me toward that would be fine, or maybe you can just tell me I came to the right place.

In reading some other posts, it appears the 4 cylinder is less prone to problems/issues than the v6. Are the automatic models reasonably reliable, and inexpensive to have worked on? I see a lot of different names out there like dolphin, sunrader, Itasca, Winnebago, and I've forgotten the names of the other Toyota RV models. Not sure what the big differences are so my plan is to try to zero in on the engine type / make/ model I should be looking for then when I see one come up on craigs list in my area I can go jump on it.

Also, just in terms of maintaining the RV in terms of sealing the roof, AC, fridge, toilet, plumbing, generator, etc. etc. What kind of budget for continued upkeep and maintenance should I expect to be in for, assuming I got a serviceable model rather than a fixer, but a lot of them items are likely to be years old?

Sorry about the lengthy post and questions, I'm heading out for our annual family camp-out tomorrow AM, and hopefully this will be my last year in the tent! Thanks for your help and answers to my questions.

Edited July 21, 2012 by GrantD

[stamar]

I dont think there has ever been a more reliable RV ever made. I think something with a cummins diesel in a different class size is the only thing.

you have most everything right on the models.

The auto trans on a toyota motorhome is extremely reliable. Its not as reliable as the manual transmission but its extremely reliable. unlike a truck a motorhome never reaches 200k miles, and the auto trans on a toyota truck makes it to 300k. a 4 speed manual trans on a toyota truck can make it to 1 million miles though.

Roof sealant should last 5 years and the materials cost is around 50$.

These toyhomes dont come with a generator, the fridge seems to be unreliable and extremely expensive( but its the same as any other rv fridge)

mine avgs 12.5 mpg High theoretical all flat fwy unladen, 19 mpg. Mine is so dialed in and only has 86k miles I really dont believe claims they get more. But I have heard people say they get 23 mpg.

most of the 21 foot models from 79 to 85 had a recall on the rear axel, and it was converted to 6 lug 1 ton chassis. So check any one that old to make sure its six lug or its dangerous.

You wonnt really see a lot on craigslist this time of year. The best deals by far are coming up in florida.

[waiter]

Generally speaking - any Toyhouse you find will be a fixer-upper.

I know people buy them, jump in, and go camping. Ignorance is not bliss and often can cost a lot of money.

Truck stuff

At minimum - look at tires, particularly, tire age (not tread) tires over 6-7 year old should be replaced.

These things are 25 years old - mechanically, they are OK, as long as maintenance has been performed. Most of these sit in the drive or storage for 11 month out of the year, and a lot of the maintenance items don't get done. and in these cases, age is just as bad as mileage, rubber components should be looked at and replaced, i.e. Tires, hoses, belts, more as a preventative factor rather than ongoing maintenance (i.e. cost of part vs cost of breakdown).

Unless you can verify maintenance records, its not a bad idea to simply go through and look at everything, brakes, bearings, fluid and filter changes (tranny, engine), flushing cooling system, u-joints, rear end, tranny, etc, etc. replace water pump (the nose seal starts dribbling fluid because of old age well before the bearings go bad)

If the mechanical stuff sounds daunting, consider this, one nice thing about Toyota, If your curious, have some basic tools, and a willingness to get your hands dirty, you probably couldn't pick a better vehicle to learn on AND - Save yourself a boat load of money

House stuff

At minimum - look for rot, sponginess around windows, ceiling, inside cabinets, floor. Cabover area is most common.

Unless your an intelligent and informed buyer,. AND your very, very, very, very lucky, you'll have stuff that needs to be fixed. A lot of this will be basic homeowner type maintenance - fixing cabinet hinges, curtains, painting, leaky faucets, etc, but with a slight twist.

Rot - I can just about guarantee you'll find some of this. How much is acceptable (not a lot) how much will need repair, how much will break the deal. These are items you need to look at.

Resealing windows, (25 year old sealant is now leaking and causing rot) Not a big deal, the first one is hardest, after that you can knock them out in about an hour. Same for the roof, sealing seams - you can do for $50, but if you need to hire someone else to do it, probably 5 times that.

There are also special maintenance things that you may run into, furnaces, water systems, frig, electrical. Again, if your inclined with a curiosity and a willingness to jump in, these are not difficult and there is plenty of help just a keyboard away.

Bottom Line Do-It-Yourself or Pay someone to do it

If you need to pay someone or take it to a shop for even the smallest of discrepancies, then these could be a money pit and you might want to consider something newer, i..e a 5 - 10 year old class C Ford or GMC, but even then, you could run into the same type issues, so you must be diligent regardless of the age. (When my wife and I were looking to buy a Class C, we looked at 10 year old GMC that was absolutely immaculate inside. Crawling around underneath, the frame was so rusted out I could take a screwdriver and punch it through the frame in places.)

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[GrantD]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

Couple more thoughts, from what I've gathered so far the model called the "sunrader" has the best roof/shell though it tends to leak at the front windows and tends to be slightly smaller. I'm 6'0" tall so might have to duck a little?

I like the pictures I've seen with the rear dinette table and nice window back there, knowing this might help you give me some recommendations.

Thanks!

[Davidadro]

^{It all depends on your bankroll as to what you get, and what you want. I have found many that are not fixer-uppers, and if you have some funds to spend, you can find one with reasonable lower mileage, and has a good roof, and complete working accessories. One really needs to understand the workings of the systems though, even if one doesn’t have the ability to fix things themselves, they do need to know when something is working properly, and how much life it has left. A person could spend $10,000.oo to $12,000.oo for a mid 90's Itasca or Winnebago, or around 2500.00, give or take a thousand or so depending on the condition for an older late 70's early 80's manufactured Toy.}

^{Don't rush into the buy, have every possible thing checked out by a REPUTEABLE RV service center, and if anything is needed, use it as leverage to absorb the cost to fix it. Here's a Mash-Link site to many available TOY's of all conditions, and price ranges. Just copy the link given on any page for the Craig’s List offerings, as it will escape any possible browser version delays, the others will direct link to the EBay Motors offerings. Good luck and hunting! Welcome to the world of TOYHOMES!!}

^{http://rv.jaxed.com/...=toyota&cat=rvs}

[86rader]

If you aren't into doing seal maintenance, the Sunrader is the way to go. As maintenance free as an RV exterior can be.

As for being an RVer with a budget and inability to do your own maintenance, something must change. You must either find some money or mechanical apptitude/willingness to jump in and get your hands dirty. There are many of us here willing to give advice that is worth, at a minimum, what you pay for it. If you are close to some of us, we might even give you a hand. I think that you may find that doing some of this stuff might even be fun and it really ain't rocket surgery.

[Derek up North]

If you aren't into doing seal maintenance, the Sunrader is the way to go. As maintenance free as an RV exterior can be.

It seems to me that the Odyssey Americana should be able to make that claim too. And with more space.

[86rader]

Perhaps you are right, Derek. I think the Americana falls into the same category as the Nova Star. it has somewhat similar construction to the Sunrader, but, its "clamshell is made of more pieces. Defintiely more weatherproof than most, but, still not quite on par with the Sunrader.

[stamar]

great link

i looked up the americana

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/rvs/3149847621.html

I havent seen a picture of the rear yet.

Its not a 1 peice design, but it has a 1 peice roof.

It has the cab front as all 1 peice, and then the roof is one peice. The back could be one peice or it could be fiberglass siding, and the sides are fiberglass siding.

it should be leak free for life but anywhere there is a joint can leak.

It does eliminate the need for roof sealant though I believe.

[Davidadro]

The Mirage is another fibreglass shell model with moulded interior features. I've always thought they were cool looking.

[stamar]

the mirage is also wider than a sunrader but shorter with a huge rear door.

Almost perfect.

[5Toyota]

to make a correction some do come with generators built in but for most of us that is not a big deal. welcome to the group last nov we bought a very nice 1987 dolphin four cyl auto 66ooo miles. have made four trips out. the pic is our former 1978 minimax. trust me once you have indoor pluming out in the woods at nite . you will say o ya and when it rains o ya. our frends just bought a vintage 1969 pull trailer for 6oo dollors three kids and loving it. as for us not looking back at our tent eather.

[waiter]

Learn as much as you can about the different makes and floor plans. Most of the Toyhouses are all very similar with the same systems and appliances, and potential problems

I would agree that because of the fiberglass shell construction, the Sunrader would be on the top of everyone's list, but remember it also has unique problems that you need to be aware of (i.e. special front windows) HOWEVER - Unless your hellbent on owning a Sunrader and nothing else, keep an open mind and look around.

What you'll observe, these things go fast (not speed wise, sales wise :-) so, if something becomes available, you'll need to move fast and make a decision. USE EXTREME caution about making an emotional decision, as you could easily buy a money pit., Always be prepared to walk away.

With that said, look around, Look at other Class C's, go to RV shows and new RV lots and kick some tires. This will give you an opportunity to look without the pressure of making a decision now,. It will also let you see how different floor plans will work. i.e. front bedroom, back bedroom, captains chairs, etc..

ALSO - It'll give you ideas on stuff you'd like to do when you finally take the plunge - Example, LCD TVs, LED lighting, painting, etc. I got the idea of installing a built in Window Air Conditioner rather that a roof top air conditioner at an RV show,

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[WME]

One thing to also think about in the Toy vs Chevy class C discussion. How much storage space is there? Its amazing, with 3 females, the amount of "stuff" you'll "have" to bring.

[bufbooth]

GrantD, where abouts are you located? The reason I ask is if you are close enough that you might want to attend a Toyota Rally in

order to see a number of different models all at once. There are a few on the West coast, and one next week in Wisconsin Dells.

[GrantD]

I'm just a bit north of Seattle, WA. Thanks all for the input.

My "plan" is that once I get one, the Toyhouse would become my new hobby and I will try to learn how to do various things, but to start off I won't know much.

[Davidadro]

Here's a nice 1987 Sunrader that has about a day left on the auction. I realize it is in South Dakota, and that it's going for a big chunk of change. I am posting the link for viewing purposes, as one can see what a very nice Sunrader looks like inside and out to give ya some idea of the floorplan, and to let ya know that there are still somenice older Toy's still available... Cost is subjective, in that, if one spends a bit more, they can have something ready to go where it may cost them more in the long run by dumping money into a fixer upper? Good Luck in your search!

http://cgi.ebay.com/...vectorid=229466

Heres a fixer-upper Sunraider for $1800.00

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/3153096964.html

[Bunneys]

Welcome!

Our family of 4 (2 and 5 years old now now) Love our Dolphin.

We are often in Birch Bay, WA. so if your around that area we could show you ours if you like.

I would recommend the newer ones to you. Anything 89-94 (Truck model year) will be the best.

You get the true 1ton chassis, V6 engine and the best auto trans (rare 5-speed model also available)

As for the camper part, look at all models. Avoid the ones that have major soft-spots, look for repainting and quick fix-it jobs. Make sure everything works. That being said, for 5K you will likely be fixing something It truly is a labor of love.

Andrew.

[stamar]

Im buying that sunrader if I can get there in time.

Fair warning.

[Davidadro]

Im buying that sunrader if I can get there in time.

Fair warning.

Which one Stamar?

[stamar]

the one for 1800.

It seems t me its sold because they didnt respond to me.

I would drive there and buy it if not.

[tcagle222]

"Our budget will probably be in the $5k range, possibly a bit higher."

We just bought our 1990 Seabreeze from a couple in central Alabama. We live in Clinton, MS. We paid 5100 for the seabreeze with 68000 miles on it. We then spent around 1800 for 6 new tires, timing belt and water pump and cab A/C repair before we brought it home. The couple we bought it from were great to work with, they had it 2 years and only drove it 1200 miles and had the transmission serviced. The front tires were new but were car tires and back tires were cracked and also car tires. I put the correct tires all around. I drove it home with no problems although the a/c was not very cool after 3pm with the hot Mississippi sunshine coming through the windshield. I think we need a curtain between the cab and coach to not try cooling the whole thing with cab a/c. Over all we are happy with our little rv. You just need to plan on spending a certain amount of money after you buy it to get the maintenance up to date. I still have to seal the windows and roof and will update the coach electrical systems.

[Davidadro]

the one for 1800.

It seems t me its sold because they didnt respond to me.

I would drive there and buy it if not.

Here's another cheap Sunraider, it's a 1979 though, and can't tell if it's got the floating rearend mod from the pic, but it's only $2000.oo OBO. Thought I'd share it.

http://www.recycler....toyota-sunrader

[stamar]

not as stoked on that one but id still buy it.

I personally think an 18 foot sunrader with a 22re , like that one for 1800$, is worth 5000 in terrible condition.

Thats the top of the line imo.

what a 79 is worth I dont know but Id say at least 3000.

[Davidadro]

not as stoked on that one but id still buy it.

I personally think an 18 foot sunrader with a 22re , like that one for 1800$, is worth 5000 in terrible condition.

Thats the top of the line imo.

what a 79 is worth I dont know but Id say at least 3000.

Here's a 1986 Sunraider in Connecticut for $1875 firm that looks pretty good....

http://www.reachoo.com/ads/58548374#newhaven-1986%20Toyota%20sunrader%20motorhome%20(Orange)%20$1875

[stamar]

that one I couldnt touch

its also 21 foot. But Id love to upgrade my 85 dolphin into a an 86 sunrader sure.

But the transmission is bad. and thats in connecticutt.

For 1800,if it were running perfect I could actually fly there.

I cant fly there with a bad transmission and drive it across the country.

Its kind of iffy if thats worth 1800 as is. It is worth it, bbut kind of iffy.

[84TOYRV]

Looks like it has a 22r. More problems?

[Davidadro]

Looks like it has a 22r. More problems?

Whats wrong with a 22r?

[5Toyota]

less problems much simpler to service have owend 7 toyotas 2 moterhomes not too step on anyone but four in a row is and awalys has been the way to go for me anyway.

[stamar]

he means not a 22re

and that could be a mis type.

I dont actually know which years and models had 22re, and 22r.

I was actually suprised mine had a 22re, I had already committed to buying it before I knew. Then I looked it up and all dolphins were. So I made the assumption all toyhomes were but my assumptions have always been wrong before.

the 22re starts to be standard in dolphins in 85.

So, on the other hand if its not standard in sunraders in 85, thats possible because its not 'standard' in the trucks til like 89 or so, then thats another good thing about dolphins over sunraders i didnt know until just now.

sunrader also has two sizes so might have a configurator for either engine, either transmission etc.

I havent ever seen a sunrader pamphlet for these years but I have seen the dolphin ones. I definitely have a lot to learn about them.

heres the thing

In 85, there is an engine change. the r22 in 84is different than the r22 in 85. the r22e, is different than the r22e from 84

I dont think any toy home uses the OLD r22e. Never seen one.

the new version of the r22 and the r22e is better than the old version. Then, in the future theres another change for the r22e, I think in 1990. But that engine isnt in any of the toyhomes. 1990 on, are all v6s. That final version of the r22e has 130 hp.

I wasnt sure how many toyhomes use the NEW r22. I know some do absolutely just not mine. I heard someone say that the only 5 speeds are the one with the new r22, the 85 and newer. Its totally possible to have a r22e with a 5 speed but that the motorhome makers just didnt put those together.

Anyhow thats based on forum chatter I dont actually know but am going to find out.

[84TOYRV]

I own a 22r 4 spd and it hasn't let me down yet. I do use Seafoam to keep the carb happy. Good stuff!

[5Toyota]

WE have a frend we camp with she has an older 1981 i looked at the plate dolphin with no power stering and is a 22r carb 4 speed rear dinet model 500 but does have the 6 lug rear end.

[5Toyota]

have also owened two totaly identcal 4wd xtra cabtrucks both 1987 one a 22r carb G52 5 speed trans the other the delux sr5 leval air cond and the 22re with w56 5 speedtrans. my son had a 1986 long box 22re 4wd w56 . for a few years they made both carb or efi custmer pick

[5Toyota]

tried to edet my post no go said my post was empty . no problems with my 22r i liked it two kids hit me and totaled it out

[stamar]

for the trucks it was an option from I think 82 to 89 and standard in 1990.

So, that said, all toyota motorhomes with a 4 banger could have the 22r or 22re based on the truck.

BUT, some models only had the 22re.

AND so far as I can see, no toyota motorhome used the older, rarer 22re that was in 82 83 84 trucks.

I believe that older 22re is using a TBI injection, I havent seen one in a while in a truck or otherwise.

The first toyota motorhomes with the 22re use the 85 and newer version with mpfi, 115 hp.

I believe that some models, some years of toy homes only use the 22re and dont have a 22r option. But there are so many makes its too complicated to compile.

Theres a source for all the pamphlets for national RV dolphin and seabreaze, and for 85 on all they use is the 22re, and the vgv6. I think theres a year where sunrader is the same thing i think its more like 87 though.

and also the new horizon, 1986 and above, only uses the 22re. I have seen the 86 pamphlet.