Converter/electric panel gets hot

[BobBeery]

Bought a 94 Warrior to replace my 90 Dolphin.  It has a 32 amp load center/converter.  I found that when on shore power it would get hot enough to start a cooling fan that I didn't know about.  And the longer I left it plugged in the hotter it got until it felt a lot like the outside of a toaster.  The cooling fan could not keep the heat sufficiently down.  Nothing was turned on or running that I know of except a LP gas detector and maybe the battery charging function.

This unit has a 30 amp main breaker, a combination breaker with a 15 amp section and a 20 amp section, plus five or six 12v fuses.  After trying all the various combinations of breakers on and off I determined that the issue happens with the 15 amp half of the combo breaker.  If this is off, there is no heating regardless of other draws.  As soon as the 15 amp is turned on I can hear a 60 cycle hum even when there is nothing plugged into any of the outlets.  Turning the breaker off stops the hum.  If I leave it on with no known load I can feel some warming within half an hour.  After more than an hour the unit's cooling fan is running but the temp seems to me to be warm not hot. Then I was out of time and came in to write this post.

First, does anybody know which if any breakers or fuses the battery charging function would go through?

Second, any ideas about what is wrong, or what can be done to stop the heating, or what other investigation I should do?  I have a VOM and also some papers about the unit that were in the toyhouse when I bought it.  .

 

[WME]

If you are sure that its the breaker and not something it powers that is humming.  New CB are cheap and easy to replace. Just remember to unplug the Toy first.

[BobBeery]

The hum is coming from the load center/converter somewhere, not necessarily from the circuit breaker itself.   

[jjrbus]

It is difficult at best to do an internet diagnosis.  If you have a multi meter would be a big help or even a volt meter.  Multi meter's are cheap today and even though I am not technically inclined people can talk me through many tests with it.

Here is one with an AC electric tester for  $20,  I am not recommending this one just using for an example. Harbor freight is cheaper. 

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-multimeter-with-ac-voltage-detector/p-03482146000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&gclid=CNOKq7bo5s4CFcxahgodGY8FGA&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Maineah]

The converter/charger will got hot that is normal very hot is not, it sounds like yours is connected to the 15 amp breaker some were direct connected to the incoming power cord. There were issues with cooling fans on some of the early switching supplies it maybe flat worn out not turning fast enough to keep things cool also yours maybe one that is upgradeable to a more efficient charger. It is connected to the battery so even if there are no lights etc on it still will try to charge the battery as long as it's plugged in so yes it will make heat.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Maineah

[Back East Don]

18 minutes ago, BobBeery said:

The hum is coming from the load center/converter somewhere, not necessarily from the circuit breaker itself.   

Sounds to me like the DC side is working pretty hard.  What is the condition of the battery?  What are you running on DC.  If you perhaps have an inverter connected and on or are running the fridge on DC, you might be working the converter to its limit.  That is where I would start to look as it doesn't sound to me like anything on the AC side is the problem.

[BobBeery]

Thanks jjrbus, Maineah, and Back East Don. 

I have shown that turning off the 15A breaker also turns off the battery charger. 

Disconnecting the POS wire from the battery makes no difference in hum or heat.

The hum can be felt as well as heard.  It comes from the big bottom half not from the actual breaker. 

By lifting up the seat of the sofa I was able to make sure that nothing is blocking air circulation.  I am able to feel the whole unit except the underneath. With the 15A breaker on it is hottest at the back left.  There is some heat on the left side, little heat on the top but no heat on the right side. 

Everything that draws electricity has been turned off except a factory built-in LP gas detector which has not switch that I can find.

Today it took about 2 hours before it got warm enough to kick the fan on.

Battery is a Wal-Mart deep cycle marine group 27 dated 3/13.  This morning with POS wire disconnected I got 12.34v on my digital meter. 

Now some background.  This is my third Toyhouse.  The others both had 25 Amp BK devices and I never paid them much attention but never heard a hum never felt heat and never heard a fan or observed air blown out the front by a fan.  This one is a Magnatech series 6300A model 6332 with options C N I B (or 8) date code 4 3 3.  I found an operator's pamphlet from Magnatech.  The option C means 3A battery charger which tapers the charge and shuts off when batt is fully charged but comes on again if the batt drops below a predetermined level.  There is no wiring diagram, schematic, or drawing.

Speculation--I know just enough electricity and electronics from 40-50 years ago to get myself in trouble, but....could the hum and heat be coming from a transformer?

And sorry to say I need to get this taken care of quickly.  I have an overnight stay to do in three days, and in six days I leave on a five day trip.  I will have shore power available all nights.. 

 

 

 

[Back East Don]

19 minutes ago, BobBeery said:

Thanks jjrbus, Maineah, and Back East Don. 

I have shown that turning off the 15A breaker also turns off the battery charger. 

Disconnecting the POS wire from the battery makes no difference in hum or heat.

The hum can be felt as well as heard.  It comes from the big bottom half not from the actual breaker. 

By lifting up the seat of the sofa I was able to make sure that nothing is blocking air circulation.  I am able to feel the whole unit except the underneath. With the 15A breaker on it is hottest at the back left.  There is some heat on the left side, little heat on the top but no heat on the right side. 

Everything that draws electricity has been turned off except a factory built-in LP gas detector which has not switch that I can find.

Today it took about 2 hours before it got warm enough to kick the fan on.

Battery is a Wal-Mart deep cycle marine group 27 dated 3/13.  This morning with POS wire disconnected I got 12.34v on my digital meter. 

Now some background.  This is my third Toyhouse.  The others both had 25 Amp BK devices and I never paid them much attention but never heard a hum never felt heat and never heard a fan or observed air blown out the front by a fan.  This one is a Magnatech series 6300A model 6332 with options C N I B (or 8) date code 4 3 3.  I found an operator's pamphlet from Magnatech.  The option C means 3A battery charger which tapers the charge and shuts off when batt is fully charged but comes on again if the batt drops below a predetermined level.  There is no wiring diagram, schematic, or drawing.

Speculation--I know just enough electricity and electronics from 40-50 years ago to get myself in trouble, but....could the hum and heat be coming from a transformer?

And sorry to say I need to get this taken care of quickly.  I have an overnight stay to do in three days, and in six days I leave on a five day trip.  I will have shore power available all nights.. 

 

 

 

On the DC side there are fuses.  As I suggested, pull them all out then apply the AC power.  This would run the power supply with no load. With the battery disconnected, if it still gets hot, the power supply is the problem. 

[WME]

Without an endless explanation, sounds like your in the market for a new power section for your power panel. Start with these guys http://www.bestconverter.com/ 

Edited August 29, 2016 by WME

[Maineah]

Yeah that is an old clunky charger that did use a transformer a modern up grade would be in order.

[BobBeery]

7 hours ago, WME said:

Without an endless explanation, sounds like your in the market for a new power section for your power panel. Start with these guys http://www.bestconverter.com/ 

 

1 hour ago, Maineah said:

Yeah that is an old clunky charger that did use a transformer a modern up grade would be in order.

I thought it would come to this.  Best converter has a 35A 'converter upgrade section' available to fit the model I have.  Price $198.50 plus about $16 for shipping.  Online directions look simple enough.  I was guessing $280-325 for an entire new unit plus lots of hassle keeping all the wires straight so I am ordering this right away.  Hope it can come by Saturday because I have a five-night trip starting Sunday.

Thanks everybody for info and especially to WME for the link.

[WME]

Good deal. I've done 3 upgrades for different folks around here and all the owners are most happy.

P.S. Their batteries are even happier

[BobBeery]

A happy battery will make my CPAP happy.  I went whole hog and also bought the remote on a wire.

 

[Jaunt]

I have my shore power cord connected to my inverter and my converter gets a little warm but then the fan kicks on and seems to cool it off.  The fan definitely hums a bit but not too bad.

Been using it daily for the last 60 days or so with no issues *shrug*

Edited September 3, 2016 by Jaunt

[BobBeery]

 I am happy for you.  That is the way it is supposed to work.  On mine the fan came on but it just kept getting hotter. 

 

[DanAatTheCape]

I would pull the house battery and take it to an auto parts store and get it load tested.   If the house battery is toast your charger could run wide open and yes that will generate a lot of heat.  On my 93 winnie warrior, if I am plugged in to AC120 for a few days I will turn off the AC source, disconnect a lead on the house battery and then repower the AC. 

 

That would be another way to see if the converter is putting out a high charge trying to charge a crapped out battery. 

 

BTW< on my camper, when the AC is present, the battery is isolated from everything but the converter's charger.  That charger is also powering everything DC in the cabin too.   IF I have multiple lights on , etc, the cooling fan will kick in. The area around the converter gets warm too. 

[BobBeery]

I have completely finished installing and checking my new converter section.  Everything works right.  There is no overheating.  House battery goes to a full charge and it is then switched to a 13.2V maintenance level. 

Just a couple odd things about my particular case.  1) The entire old unit (Magnatech 6332) was held in with 2 screws on each side.  But the unit had been pushed to the left side of the opening at the factory install so the 2 screws on the left went into good wood but the 2 screws on the right just went through the upholstery fabric and grazed wood.  I moved it over, drilled new holes, and got into good wood for all 4 screws.  2) The factory had added a bar across the top back of the original converter section to hold some wire retaining clips.  I had to dismount that bar to get the old convert out, and reinstall it after inserting the new converter.  I had to drill 2 holes to remount it.  3) The 12V circuit board in the old unit did not exactly match that shown in the instructions for the new converter.  I had to trace wires and also put a voltmeter on some of them to make sure I was identifying every wire correctly.  Turns out my guesses were all correct but I did not want to install based on guesses and maybe ruin something.  It was time consuming and irritating to have to do this but I am glad I made SURE of every wire.

[Maineah]

Good job you will be glad you did it.