AbleThought Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Hey all, me again lol. im loosing all of my lights... dash, break, everything. toyo keeps dying. at this point it wont start and fails auto parts store tests saying low voltage. battery charge is holding a charge according to them. i replaced the voltage regulator, altornator and a little circut breaker that is after the voltage regulator. what else could it be?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) main fuse in fuse panel. happened to me. sometimes its simple things. when main fuse is blown the alternator will not charge. the lights and turn signals wont work either. the truck will run but not charge. Odds to even also if this is you; you alternator is fine. I tracked this on mine to a loose battery ground (on the battery itself) that was the cause when the rig would bounce it would short and trip the fuse melt. torque down those terminals Edited April 15, 2016 by Totem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 your main fuse is in the cockpit; not the engine bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso del mar Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I think he's right and likely culprit is a bad ground, or a corroded fuse/socket. do you have a multimeter? ohmmeter functions will let you check resistance and continuity of grounds. or since you're on the road, maybe just buy a battery cable and bolt and add a spare ground? your camper electrics work OK, this is limited to truck cab electrics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 15, 2016 Author Share Posted April 15, 2016 19 minutes ago, Totem said: your main fuse is in the cockpit; not the engine bay this it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 hey guys still trying to figure this out. starting battery will not charge. my rader is a 83. i have a new altonator, voltage regulator, battery and both inline circut breakers that come off the duel battery charger. super stuck... now in omaha. any suggestions would be helpful i will try it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 It wouldn't be the 1st time that a new part was NFG straight out of the box. Beyond that, grab a multimeter and go back to basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 17, 2016 Author Share Posted April 17, 2016 22 hours ago, Derek up North said: It wouldn't be the 1st time that a new part was NFG straight out of the box. Beyond that, grab a multimeter and go back to basics. looks like ill be poking around with the multimeter... im stumped though... how does the starting batter get its charge??? the lug to the left ( or back ) has two leads one to the coach. one to the deep cycle battery. i get that. The lug in the middle leads to the alternator... i get that. the lug to the right ( or front ) is a ground that goes to the engine block... so how does the starting batter get its charge??? how is the alternator connected to the starting battery? thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 (edited) I think that sometime in the past there was a problem with the isolator. There appears to have been some jury rigging The wiring should be alternator to the middle, house battery to one side and truck battery to the other. Edited April 17, 2016 by WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'm not real sure why there are two wires under that one lug. You seem to have a b2 terminal I can't see what the others are. One should be an "a" or alternator the other maybe be "b1" . How did they determine the alternator was charging? Was it off the vehicle? It is possible the isolator is toes up but more information is needed. Both the coach and the truck battery wires should not be under the same terminal. Here is my guess the terminal both wires are on is b1 the center one is alternator and the b2 is coach battery. If you can figure out witch one is the truck battery and witch one is the alternator battery. Here is how it should be center terminal should be connected to the alternator b2 connected to the coach or the truck battery it does not matter either will work and the same for the b1 terminal. The second wire you have under the post maybe be for the acc. power for the truck it's hard to tell from here. The two for the coach and the truck can be switch it make no difference but if the alternator wire is connected to either of the "B" posts it will not work it won't charge either battery. Check between the A or alternator wire and a good ground (battery post would be a good ground) there should be plenty of voltage if there is not some thing close to the same voltage in the other posts the isolator is toes up if one is and the other one is not the isolator is toes up. In a pinch to get you going you can connect the truck battery terminal to the A terminal that will eliminate the isolator but only the truck battery will charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 23 hours ago, Maineah said: I'm not real sure why there are two wires under that one lug. You seem to have a b2 terminal I can't see what the others are. One should be an "a" or alternator the other maybe be "b1" . How did they determine the alternator was charging? Was it off the vehicle? It is possible the isolator is toes up but more information is needed. Both the coach and the truck battery wires should not be under the same terminal. Here is my guess the terminal both wires are on is b1 the center one is alternator and the b2 is coach battery. If you can figure out witch one is the truck battery and witch one is the alternator battery. Here is how it should be center terminal should be connected to the alternator b2 connected to the coach or the truck battery it does not matter either will work and the same for the b1 terminal. The second wire you have under the post maybe be for the acc. power for the truck it's hard to tell from here. The two for the coach and the truck can be switch it make no difference but if the alternator wire is connected to either of the "B" posts it will not work it won't charge either battery. Check between the A or alternator wire and a good ground (battery post would be a good ground) there should be plenty of voltage if there is not some thing close to the same voltage in the other posts the isolator is toes up if one is and the other one is not the isolator is toes up. In a pinch to get you going you can connect the truck battery terminal to the A terminal that will eliminate the isolator but only the truck battery will charge. okay this all makes sense. here is whats confusing. b2 is connected to a bolt on the side of the engine??? thats whats confusing me... it doesnt lead anywhere as far as i can see. should there be a lead coming off that bolt to the other battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 18, 2016 Author Share Posted April 18, 2016 5 hours ago, WME said: I think that sometime in the past there was a problem with the isolator. There appears to have been some jury rigging The wiring should be alternator to the middle, house battery to one side and truck battery to the other. this is super helpful. thanks so much. still confused as to why the b2 lug on the isolator leads to a bolt on the side of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 No wires in that type of isolator that should be connected to any ground even the isolator does not need to be grounded in order for it to work. If it is connected to a ground that is one reason it does not charge and most likely it smoked the isolator. Inside of that mysterious box is nothing more than two diodes. Find the wire that goes to the alternator then the wire that goes to the truck battery join them both together at that point if nothing is damaged it should charge the truck battery. Once you have gotten that far it probably would be a good ideal to buy a new isolator then connect the truck battery to terminal B1 and the coach battery wire to terminal B2 and lastly the alternator wire to terminal A nothing else should be hooked up there. If the second red wire goes to the acc. easy way to find out is disconnect it and see if any thing in the truck still works if not. then it's OK to land it with the other red wire it not usually where it is done but OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso del mar Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 so what results do you see if you just take the isolator out of the picture and just wire around it for now, to get you home? you could get a cheap charger at Hellmart etc and charge the house batteries from shore power each night if you're at developed campgrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 1 hour ago, payaso del mar said: so what results do you see if you just take the isolator out of the picture and just wire around it for now, to get you home? you could get a cheap charger at Hellmart etc and charge the house batteries from shore power each night if you're at developed campgrounds. Or you could hook them together just be careful of how much 12 volt power you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 the 1st chore I see is to get out a small wire brush and clean all the rust off the terminals and nuts. How are you supposed to make a good connection with that mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 14 hours ago, snail powered said: the 1st chore I see is to get out a small wire brush and clean all the rust off the terminals and nuts. How are you supposed to make a good connection with that mess? ^ boom. bad grounds will bring you down - agree with Karen 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 thanks for all the advice guys.. I found the problem the wire on the positive teminal the leads to the b1 lug on the osolator was split plus the voltage regulator i got from autozone was doa. made it very tough to diagnose with the combo of firstly no voltage then way to much voltage but i figured it out. getting a conce 13.80- 14 volt charge now. at the moment i have the wire taped. the wire attaches to a harness which i cannont find anywhere so im going to have to get new wire and split open that harness to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 22 hours ago, Totem said: ^ boom. bad grounds will bring you down - agree with Karen 100% The solid state isolators do not require a ground. Once you remove a rusted terminal you will find it's clean under the bolt, in most cases if you try to remove a rusted nut on circuit breakers or isolators with small studs you will be buying the part any way because the stud will break. 12 hours ago, AbleThought said: thanks for all the advice guys.. I found the problem the wire on the positive teminal the leads to the b1 lug on the osolator was split plus the voltage regulator i got from autozone was doa. made it very tough to diagnose with the combo of firstly no voltage then way to much voltage but i figured it out. getting a conce 13.80- 14 volt charge now. at the moment i have the wire taped. the wire attaches to a harness which i cannont find anywhere so im going to have to get new wire and split open that harness to replace it. When a solid state isolator is installed there is wiring changes that have to be made to the vehicle harness. The battery connection that goes to the alternator (B+) has to be removed and a new wire has to be run to the alternator from the "A" post on the isolator then the old alternator wire has will have to be connected to the "B" 1 or 2 post It usually is cut and spliced to a longer wire. The new wire could be installed directly to the battery and the old one abandoned but usual they are cut and spliced. That will give you an ideal of how to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 did you seriously just say that dirty rusted terminals should be assumed ok? wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso del mar Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Maineah said: When a solid state isolator is installed there is wiring changes that have to be made to the vehicle harness. true for most combiners but not all. the Yandina only has connections to each battery and then to ground, plus optional ones to override the combiner. no cutting of alternator wires needed. against that, @$60, it's a bunch pricier than the RV models. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=605576 Able, glad yer rollin again. way to keep at the debugging. and A nice little window there into the quality of the lectronix and electrical parts one finds at OttozoneOReilly et al........... Edited April 20, 2016 by payaso del mar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 5 hours ago, payaso del mar said: true for most combiners but not all. the Yandina only has connections to each battery and then to ground, plus optional ones to override the combiner. no cutting of alternator wires needed. against that, @$60, it's a bunch pricier than the RV models. http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=605576 Able, glad yer rollin again. way to keep at the debugging. and A nice little window there into the quality of the lectronix and electrical parts one finds at OttozoneOReilly et al........... That is correct but that is a combiner it is not an isolator per say they are different If a solid state isolator is installed there was wiring changes. Combiners are also used with relays frankly they make far more sense no wiring changes and they will charge both batteries when plugged in. In the case of the OP the wiring has been changed and it his case the best solution is to replace it with a standard solid state isolator to avoid another wiring change because the combiner will not work with out changes to his existing wiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
payaso del mar Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 yeah, I understand not adding yet more post-factory wiring mods.....I have an ugly job ahead debugging all the IPO "fixes" on my electrics. I didn't realize this was different from an isolator, thought it was 2 different ways of expressing same idea. good to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 On 4/21/2016 at 2:21 PM, payaso del mar said: yeah, I understand not adding yet more post-factory wiring mods.....I have an ugly job ahead debugging all the IPO "fixes" on my electrics. I didn't realize this was different from an isolator, thought it was 2 different ways of expressing same idea. good to learn. Some of this is just semantics. All combiners as used in RVs are isolators, i.e. just one type of isolator . Not all isolators, however, are combiners. When a relay-type combiner has an open-circuit - the batteries are totally isolated, and when the circuit is closed - the batteries are combined in parallel. With a rectifier-based isolator the batteries are never truly combined or in parallel. Power from the alternator is always allowed to pass to both batteries, but never allowed to pass from one battery to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 A solid state isolator has cooling fins for a reason they get hot. If some thing gets hot and it's not an electric heater it is energy loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Relays get hot too and thus the reason for a low-draw, continuous duty relay that gets "less hot" then others. Only relay I can think of that has no energy waste and no heat made is a latching relay (Iike used to switch gas tanks in dual tank setups). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 8 hours ago, jdemaris said: Relays get hot too and thus the reason for a low-draw, continuous duty relay that gets "less hot" then others. Only relay I can think of that has no energy waste and no heat made is a latching relay (Iike used to switch gas tanks in dual tank setups). Yes they do get warm but it is the coil not the load that causes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Heat waste is heat waste. If you use a standard starter solenoid (3-6 amp high draw - intermittent duty) for an isolation relay on an RV - it will get so hot you can't touch it and will fail prematurely (or right on time depending on your view-point). And yes, hopefully all the heat is from the pull-in coil. If it is from the actual contacts, it will fail pretty quickly (that happens too). Even the low-draw 1/2 amp continuous duty isolation relays get pretty warm - but I have never had one fail yet. Every truck and RV I own has one. A "latching relay" would make no heat but using that makes things a bit complicated unless you manually turn it "on" and "off" when needed. I prefer the relay over rectifiers. If in good shape, no voltage drop and nothing that can all-of-a-sudden blow and fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyoGuy Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 Maybe useful on a very basic level for those suspecting failure on their solid state units ? It helped me. TG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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