bufbooth Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I finally took my 1990 Odyssey out of storage today. It was sitting wrapped up from October 2014 to Aug. 01, 2015. At that time I unwrapped her and drove her about 50 yards. In the past I had a slow battery draw, so I had a battery disconnect installed on the truck battery. My Toyota started up on Aug. 01, but after I moved her I forgot to disconnect the battery, so for the last four weeks the battery drained all the way down. So to get her started today, I jumped the truck battery with the fully charged Marine battery and let her run for 30 minutes while I packed things up. I then started driving home (which is about 1 hour away), I got about 10 miles down the road while driving 55 mph and the engine died and I had zero power, not even enough to turn on the flashers. I was out in the country on an empty state route and there was no shoulder to pull over (just a nice deep ditch), so I put it in neutral and tried to coast to the next county side road. I fell short about 50 yards. The road was either level or had a very slight incline between me and the county side road. I had my wife with me, so I jumped out and she got behind the wheel and amazingly enough I was able to push the Toyota the 50 yards to get to the side road (my left knee is just realizing that I did something today). So, once on the side road, I popped the hood and the battery was 100% dead, the 30 minute idling and 10 minutes of driving at 55 mph did not charge the battery at all. I swapped the engine battery with the Marine battery and she fired right up. I am not 100% sure why the engine died at 55 mph, I would of thought that even with a dead battery she would be able to run. I then realized that my truck battery was 9 years old, I had put a new battery in it when I brought her back in 2006. Guessing maybe the battery is internally damaged / or shorted out. My other thought is that maybe the gas was not 100%, I had a 1/4 tank and I had put stabilizer in it when I stored it. There was a gas station about 5 miles behind me, so I decided to head back there. For good measure, I put a pint of STP gas treatment in the tank and filled the tank up, which was 10 gallons in my 15 gallon tank. I was able to make it the rest of the way home (1 hour at 55 to 70 mph) with the Marie battery as my engine battery with no issues. I will replace the 9 year old battery with a new one. Anyone have a theory on why the engine died while I was driving at 55 mph? Thank you, Dennis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Get a v meter and check to see if your alternator is working. A house battery is around 80AH and a running Toyota MH uses about 20 amps in the day time. So a house battery will run a MH for 2-3 hours including a couple of starts. If the charging system is good then the original truck battery is toast and was only taking a surface charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 agree with WME, and add that running a vehicle with a shorted dead battery will actually age/damage your alternator exponentially. An alternator is not a good substitute for a proper battery charger. Makes it work really hard when dumping to thermal runaway while simultaneously running fuel pump, and other electronics. you also may have damaged your battery isolator if it is solid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I put a volt meter on the truck battery (the Marine battery) with engine off tonight and it read 12.5 volts. I started the engine and the volt meter read 11.75 volts, so I am guessing that the alternator is dead. Any suggestions for a replacement alternator, brand, AMP output? I have a 1990 with the V6 engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Also, I was inspecting the wires between the alternator and the battery isolator and when I touched the black wire going into that square black part (numbered 90980) the engine would rev down, any idea what that part is and why the engine would rev down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 I was able to read the full number off of that square black part, it was 90980-04036 and when I looked it up it states that it is a "CONDENSER, RADIO SETTING", other part sites just state CONDENSER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 haven't seen one of those in a while as I recall they used to use those for radio static reduction. but I remember the old round metal case ones. that looks to be the same thing. don't know why it would effect the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 the behavior you list can be any of the following but not limited to: 1.) Bad alternator or voltage regulator in the alternator or its ground; prod all contacts on alternator while running. 2.) bad main fuse, 20 amp blade - this one got me and I had exact same symptoms figured it out by noticing the turn signals and fuel gauge also did not work 3.) bad isolator - this one SUCKS to determine; and if bad it will fry the alternator. your isolator is solid state exact same as mine. only way to tell is to disconnect it and setup the truck nominally with no isolator in circuit (one battery only); if voltage returns to 13.x-14 then you know the isolator is the culprit 4.) agree with 5toy that black thing is a bandaid device to get rid of wine in the radio when the grounding issue that's causing it cannot be resolved;usually new stereo build will include a box that does this in between the RCA cables and the amplifier; but this thing is to get rid of wine in just the radio unit where there is no extra amp. on a side note, you seem to have a bad ground somewhere... your motor shouldn't wind down from touching wires that are ground. I'd spend a day unbolting every ground, hitting it with sand dremmel or wire wheel, a bit of di-electric and bolt back again. Add another Ground wire also to hedge you bet on internal wiring corrosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Anyone have a theory on why the engine died while I was driving at 55 mph? Thank you, Dennis... It should not have anything to do with the battery. Even if bad (in 9 years it ought to be) - the alternator would keep you going just fine unless that battery has a dead short in it. If it does -the alternator should of fried or a fusible link melted. My Subaru Impreza died in the middle of nowhere due to a lack of electricity. First the dash gauges acted funny. Then I found the engine skipping a bit and then it finally just died. My problem was an alternator that was not grounded. My battery, although dead - was fine once I charged it back up. 55 MPH your alternator is capable of making 50-60 amps. In the daytime with no headlights on -8-15 amps is all you need to run assuming you don't have a three-way refrigerator running on DC mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 The old battery is currently taking a charge from a battery charger, so it might still have some life in it. I will check all the fuses out first, then clean all the ground wires/connectors and add an extra ground (perTotem) and then see if the alternator is working or not. My battery isolator is a Sure Power 9523A 95 Amp Battery Isolator, which I believe is original from 1990. I can still buy this exact model for $40. If I need to replace the isolator, any reason to buy a different model? Also, if the alternator is bad, any suggestions on a replacement (brand/amps), or just replace it with the OEM one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 This is interesting (the NOTE below), found it stated in a 1990 Honda manual for the Radio Condenser: 1. Use a commercially available condenser tester. Connect the tester probes and measure the condenser capacity. Condenser capacity: 0.47 +/- 0.09 microfarads NOTE:The radio condenser is intended to reduce ignition noise; however, condenser failure may cause the engine to stop running. 2. If not within specification replace the radio condenser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 This is interesting (the NOTE below), found it stated in a 1990 Honda manual for the Radio Condenser: 1. Use a commercially available condenser tester. Connect the tester probes and measure the condenser capacity. Condenser capacity: 0.47 +/- 0.09 microfarads NOTE:The radio condenser is intended to reduce ignition noise; however, condenser failure may cause the engine to stop running. 2. If not within specification replace the radio condenser. A shorted caps life expectancy is very short before all the magic smoke is gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 What is that cap wired to that can make the engine die? I can't say I've ever heard of a vehicle found dead on the road due to a bad radio-interference cap. Most I've seen are hooked to the alternator output (if used at all). I've had a few short out and make engines die on farm tractors that had self-contained Wico or Fairbanks-Morse magnetos. What part of the wiring is your cap wired into and is does your cap actually have a dead short (kind of rare)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 as to alternator brands.. right now I am on my 6th duralast. after the original one in my rig died some years ago. I think I had a thread in here on it; they are junk remans. If you go autozone or any big box parts stores make sure to have them bench test it right in front of you new out of the box. I had 2 fail right out of the box after getting screwed and getting sick of replacing them before I finally got the one im in now. When the duralast one dies I was considering that $460 one that makes much more power with the different pulley. we discussed that in a thread in here too. for now I am just waiting on the autozone one to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I stopped repairing my own alternators a few years ago when it became more cost-efficient to buy brand new alternators and starters from China. You can buy a brand new (not rebuilt) alternator for your Toyota for around $90. I've put the same brand-new Chinese alternators on my Ford diesel truck, two Dodge Grand Caravans, Chevy Tracker, and my John Deere backhoe. Zero problems. If my Toyota needed an alternator - I'd do the same. Pure Energy brand from Rock Auto. I am sure there are other Chinese brands just as good but I know for sure that the Pure Energy brand has worked great for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 it is a standard alternator. I know you can not push start a vehicle with an alternator if the battery is completely dead.. An alternator needs a little voltage to work (unlike a generator). I would check that alternator at almost any auto parts store (free). Since a good battery made it run, I bet all you have is a really dead battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I can certainly push my Dodge diesel truck with no battery and start it. But yes - I guess the days of gas-engine automobiles with self-contained ignition magnetos are long gone. A minor point but alternators can self-excite and charge with no battery power just as generators do. They just need to spin a heck of a lot faster and not practical in a car where the alternator is expected to charge as soon as the engine starts. There are many one-wire alternators being used that self excite. Mostly used on farm-tractors that have been converted from generator systems. A typical 80s Delco alternator must spin over 3000 RPM to self-excite and only needs to spin at 1600 RPM if battery power is used to excite it. Sounds fast - but alternators always spin at 1800 RPM or more at engine idle speed on any factory setup on a car or truck that I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 If an alternator does not see enough voltage it goes full field (max charge) however if the battery voltage is not enough it may not be able to charge properly because the field voltage can not reach max no matter what the regulator asks for Some Delco's get around this with a diode trio in the stator windings. In case of a one wire Delco it relies on residual magnetism in the field core to kick start the regulator that's why they have to spin so fast to make it happen they are pretty common now on hot rods because they will work on any thing the draw back is no ign. light. It's likely you will not be able to drift start most vehicles with no battery, even most diesels now require battery voltage to to open the fuel valve so a push start won't work. This of course is a moot point with an automatic any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 In case of a one wire Delco it relies on residual magnetism most diesels now require battery voltage to to open the fuel valve so a push start won't work. That was my point about alternators. They have residual magnetism just as generators do and can also be made to self-excite. Just not as practical. RE diesels? Any of the mechanical diesels can be forced to start with no electricity by bypassing the fuel shut-off solenoid. E.g. the Stanadyne rotary pumps used in GMs and Fords use 12 volt power to turn-off rather then to stay on (in a convoluted way). But most of them are also require glow plugs to start unless you shoot them up with a shot of ether/starting fluid. The older diesels like the 190D Mercedes had no fuel shut-off at all. Just an air-choke that had it's own problems. Maybe those air-chokes were a German thing. Stihl of West Germany also made chain saws with air-chokes instead of ignition shut-offs (e.g. the 08S). I suppose a modern diesel with common-rail direct injection would be impossible to start without power due to the electronics, electric fuel pump, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 The alternators do but the two wire did not relay on it to excite the system only the one wire the regulators are different. It's pretty safe to say no modern diesel will start with out a battery. The early 190D had a cable it did fuel, glow plugs and cranking with one cable the later ones had a vacuum fuel shut off I fixed dozens of them it was the same vacuum system that locked the doors they leaked. The air chokes were for engine run a ways. My TDI had electric fuel shut off it closed with no power (as does my Kubota) it also had an air run way choke good thing to have with a turbo.I know a guy that blew up his John Deer by cleaning his air filter with kerosene it had no run away choke.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted September 6, 2015 Share Posted September 6, 2015 .I know a guy that blew up his John Deer by cleaning his air filter with kerosene it had no run away choke.. Deere had simple plunger pumps in the 50s on 2-banger tractors like the R, 70, and 720. In 1960 Deere was one of the first companies in the world to use a Stanadyne/Roosamaster rotary distributor pump on the 1010 and 2010 series in 1960. Those pumps either used a cable-shut-off or electric. If electric, when the solenoid was energized - it over-rode spring pressure and let the metering valve open so the engine could run. If power was cut - spring pressure took over and closed the metering valve making the engine stop. When the Bosch rotary pump came out like the VE used on Dodge 5.9 Cummins or on VW diesels - it was built under license to Stanadyne-USA. Isuzu diesels used Diesel Kiki pumps also built under license to Stanadyne-USA. Only Deere tractors I can think of with "run away" chokes were the 440 two-cylinder tractors that used Detroit Diesel 2-53s. All I've mentioned here could easily be made to run with no DC power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Update...I put in a new Alternator (auto zone reman with lifetime warranty), and started her up and all looks/tested well. I will be checking out the battery isolator over the next couple days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.