Sandro L Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 hi I was wondering if its possible to have a 400amp hour 12v battery bank 9 solar panels each 100 watts 12v 75amp solar 3 stage charge controller APG3004 2-Cycle Gas Generator 1000-Watt surge/800-Watt continuous shore power rv converter/charger 100amp 120vac to 12v 3 or 4 stage inverter 12vdc-120vac 3000watt continuous modified sine wave and its like 5k-6k surge watts - for the roof air conditioner unit that's about 13,500btu inverter 12vdc-120vac 2000watt continuous true pure sine wave - for everything else laptop led tv the fridge sound system 600watt microwave rated at max850watt, and other electrical efficient items also a portable panda p30 260watt micro mini washer/dryer I want to have a switch to be able to run the air conditioner either off the inverter or shore power due to it pulling so much amperage off the 12vdc battery system. and is a modified sine wave fine for just the air conditioner? the ac might be replaced with a 10,200 low profile one by coleman that I saw to lighten the electrical load. is it possible to combine all this technology safely? what are the main concerns besides proper cables and sizes? do I need isolators in between everything? I know 12vdc deteriorates over long cable distance unlike 120vac so I have to manage all my 12vdc wiring to be as short as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmowrey Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 My question would be, where are you going to put nine 100 watt solar panels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 How are you going to run an AC with batteries and still be cool in a couple hours? It's been tried before with big money RV's and they decided a generator works much better. How about the added weight and room for 400 amps worth of batteries? Your alternator will not be able to keep up with your battery bank while driving. What happens if it rains for 3 days? Scrap the ideal of a 2 stroke generator buy a 3500 watt Honda it will run the AC and charge the batteries while running the microwave. 3000 watts at 12 volts is 250 amps yes very big copper cables and connectors or sell the mini home and buy a full size class A with all the stuff you need all ready. RVing off grid is romantic but not real practical unless you reduce your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 That Dolphin won't be able to come up to the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milt Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Not Practical for Real world purposes. Run Generator for AC. My Plan is to have second alternator installed and run the Engine. Much more efficient. Cause there is no way in hell those batteries will hold up for long with AC on. 10-20 minutes tops with 5k continuous 10k peak inverter. But this my plan for the future. You do what you feel is best. Peace Milt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 "400amp hour 12v battery bank 9 solar panels each 100 watts 12v inverter 12vdc-120vac 3000watt continuous modified sine wave and its like 5k-6k surge watts - for the roof air conditioner unit that's about 13,500btu 600watt microwave rated at max850watt, at I saw to lighten the electrical load. is it possible to combine all this technology safely? what are the main concerns besides proper cables and sizes? do I need isolators in between everything? I know 12vdc deteriorates over long cable distance unlike 120vac" I've got a pair of 100 watt panels on the roof of my 20 foot Minicruiser and there's really isn't much room for any more. A 400 amp-hour battery bank hooked to a 3000 watt inverter won't run most AC units unless yours has a low-draw, slow-start motor. The problem is the voltage drop AT the batteries. A 20 amp load @ 120 volts on those batteries will drop the voltage to 10.5 volts and THAT will shut off the inverter. Most inverters are programmed to shut down when input voltage drops below 11 volts - even if for just a millisecond. Now a 400 amp-hour battery bank along with the engine running and alternator sending 50-60 amps might work (I say "might"). In reference to standard microwaves - I doubt there is one on this planet that draws a max of 850 watts. A typical "700 watt" mini-microwave draws around 11 amps @ 120 volts - i.e. 1300 watts during it's "on" surges. The only microwave oven on the market that has a true variable amp draw is an "inverter microwave - like made by Panasonic. That will run on 7 amps (840 watts) if run at half-heat. And yes, 12 volts has high loss if wires are not sized right. So does ANY voltage. But yeah, the higher the voltage the smaller the wire you can get by with. In ref to isolation? Anything that has a regulated DC output can be combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro L Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 I plan on getting a coleman low profile 10,200btu air conditioner or maybe one that's more efficient. I might beef up the generator slightly to 1500watt one to help the load off the batteries the 100amp converter/charger should take care of the batteries. Or I get around a 2000watt at least generator dedicated to the a/c unit. can I connect to the converter/charger also while connected directly to the a/c unit? or will that cut the a/c unit off?? and I know the batteries are heavy... I definitely don't plan on towing or even having a back storage or any additional possible extra weight storage, not having a awning helps a lot. I know people in these forums doing well over 6000lbs. I don't plan on passing that. when I got my truck weighed it was at 4900lbs with everything in it before I stripped out the interior where there's a will there's a way I just need you guys to show me the light and thanks a lot you don't know but this information is golden to me in these forums. thank again people its a blessing to be able to communicate like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Not Practical for Real world purposes. Run Generator for AC. My Plan is to have second alternator installed and run the Engine. Much more efficient. Cause there is no way in hell those batteries will hold up for long with AC on. 10-20 minutes tops with 5k continuous 10k peak inverter. But this my plan for the future. You do what you feel is best. Peace Milt It is sort of counter productive to run a 130 HP engine to make 2000 watts. when it can be done with 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milt Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It is sort of counter productive to run a 130 HP engine to make 2000 watts. when it can be done with 5. Not Really, If your going to do it right for a full load draw with AC on my idea is the best, less drain on batteries and recharge time is alot faster than the solar panel. Already have the 2k draw set up and is working fine for small busts of use. Useless your going for all green all off the grid than by all means bolt as many solar panels or even put them around your rig for extra power. One day we might need green machines if the govt does not ban them first like their doing with homes in some states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro L Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 I agree with maineah. to run 130hp engine just to give power to the inverter for the a/c is counter productive. I look at the alternator as an addition to the system but definitely not something to be relied upon. using everything to a minimal and timing use in between devices specially with the a/c unit will be my solution to the high amperage pull off the batteries. im thinking of getting a 5000btu 27lbs window air conditioner and install it in a way where it does not protrude off the trailer while still exhausting outdoor. most of the unit will be inside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milt Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 True, running the engine for just power is little too much, but this rig for work runs not for living in. But when i need the power for anything including welding or machine work, my setup will do the job very well. After getting a big Inverter, realized these Two House Batteries will not cut the mustard for heavy use. Plus the added weight is not what i want. Where just tossing ideas out here, It may never happen. depends on how the truck in going to used in the future. for now it is fine. Everything works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Not Really, If your going to do it right for a full load draw with AC on my idea is the best, less drain on batteries and recharge time is alot faster than the solar panel. Already have the 2k draw set up and is working fine for small busts of use. Useless your going for all green all off the grid than by all means bolt as many solar panels or even put them around your rig for extra power. One day we might need green machines if the govt does not ban them first like their doing with homes in some states. The states that currently subsidize and encourage solar installations are not going to ban them in the future. But the time might come when they don't provide subsidies and start adding more taxes for having the panels. The states that are currently making it difficult are all about getting taxes from energy sold to consumers. It is hard to tax something if you can't install a meter on it. Those have not banned the installation of solar panels, they have banned the practice of companies leasing solar panels to customers because those companies have skirted around the laws governing public utility companies.The leasing companies are in competition with existing utilities but the state can't tax the energy because they can't meter it. In those states if you purchase your own panels you can install them but there is an installation permit tax for doing so to discourage the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydancer2992 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 A Xantrex inverter/charger would automatically switch between batteries and shore power. http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/overview.aspx Pricey but sometimes show up on ebay or marine salvage places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I agree with maineah. to run 130hp engine just to give power to the inverter for the a/c is counter productive. The so-called "130" horsepower has little to do with anything. 22R makes around 100 horse at MAX output @ 4800 RPM. It is also capable of making smaller amounts of power at lower speeds at not be super inefficient. A mini-truck or RV sometimes only uses 20-30 horse to run down the road. No huge mis-match if using that "low power for size" to run an alternator instead. A 200 amp alternator needs around 6-7 horsepower to make 2800 watts. Will a 2400 cc Toyota engine make 2800 watts running an alternator as efficiently as using a direct-matched engine run at it's peak torque curve? No. But, so what? It's not a huge difference and the advantage is - only having one engine to deal with. Road Trek's Eco solar and diesel powered RV makes all it's electricty that way. Is uses the main engine to run a big alternator instead of using a self-contained engine/generator set and it does so with pretty good efficiency. The problem is - coming up with a belt drive in a four-cylinder Toyota that can turn an alternatort making more then 80 amps. One Vee-belt drive will not do the job. Either two Vee-belts or a 7 rib serpentine belt is likely needed as a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I will say up front that I do not know any of this definitively but one question I have is what is the fuel burn rate on the toyota at idle? I know my home generator running everything doesn't run particularly lean. Fabco makes a continuous 2500 watt generator head that will run off of the truck motor at about 1000 -1200 RPM. While fuel consumption comparatively might be a net loss, it is lighter than separate gas powered generator. I'm not the off the grid type for any extended length. My AC unit is long gone. We rely on ocean breezes and open windows with DC powered fans. Wife and I discussed the option of replacing the AC this year. Decided to put it off. This would be one option for us as many of the places we go it is bring you own everything. Probably will just skip it altogether as staying cool hasn't been an issue for us so far. Everything else is efficient enough to last us any trip we take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 The states that currently subsidize and encourage solar installations are not going to ban them in the future. the practice. Some local governments have banned them simply for cosmetic reasons. Subsidies for sure, have been going down. I don't see how anyone can tax someone with a grid-tie solar set-up. In most places, there is NOTHING to tax. Even with a subsidy that pays 75% of the cost of a grid-tie net-metered solar-electric system - it still represents a financial loss when done on a tax spread-sheet. I.e, no gain - nothing to tax. Even the excess power made is usually taken away from the homeowner with no payment (like mine is taken every year). Some towns raise property taxes for a solar install with is a disincentive. Also, according to Federal law - during a national or state emergency - "government" officials can take over a private solar system for the "greater good." That is one good reason to try to keep your system out of the public view if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Back East Don I will say up front that I do not know any of this definitively but one question I have is what is the fuel burn rate on the Toyota at idle? I know my home generator running everything doesn't run particularly lean. Fabco makes a continuous 2500 watt generator head that will run off of the truck motor at about 1000 -1200 RPM. While fuel consumption comparatively might be a net loss, it is lighter than separate gas powered generator. When I ran my ONAN whilst camping, for the AC, I was surprised how much gas it took out of my Toy's not so large gas tank. Maybe I should look at that Fabco before I spend the money to got the Onan fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro L Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 im thinking of getting a 5000btu 27lbs window air conditioner and install it in a way where it does not protrude off the trailer while still exhausting outdoor. most of the unit will be inside any input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro L Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 A Xantrex inverter/charger would automatically switch between batteries and shore power. http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/overview.aspx Pricey but sometimes show up on ebay or marine salvage places. that's a good a idea. I might consider that if I can find it cheap. or ill just create a manual switch over to either run off inverter or shore power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 im thinking of getting a 5000btu 27lbs window air conditioner and install it in a way where it does not protrude off the trailer while still exhausting outdoor. most of the unit will be inside any input? There is a thread on this site posted by Waiter that shows his installation of a regular window AC unit above his fridge and uses the fridge venting area to vent it and drain the condensation. Here http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=4077 Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandro L Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 linda that's excellent thank you. the 5k btu unit supposedly only uses around 800watts max so I think its perfect. seriously considering doing this. thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 There is a more energy efficient 5,000 BTU window mount air conditioner than the one in that article. This little 5,000 Frigidaire unit has a low energy start feature which means it is more likely to be able to start with a generator. That is something important if you go off grid. It uses 4.0 amps and 450 watts for cooling but I don't know if that is on the high setting or the low setting as they don't specify. http://www.frigidaire.com/Air-Conditioning-Dehumidifiers/Air-Conditioners/FFRA0511R1/ best price I saw on the internet today is $119.00 with free shipping. http://www.pcrichard.com/catalog/catalog-product.jsp?prodId=FFRA0511R1&cm_mmc=pla-_-Window%20Air%20Conditioners-_-Frigidaire-_-FFRA0511R1&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=GoogleBase&KPID=FFRA0511R1&kpid=FFRA0511R1&gclid=CJqk14a6sMYCFVNufgod1XsGlQ There is also a remote control version of the 5,000 BTU window unit. Something that would make sense for me as I would need to install it where my propane used to be located, under the rear bench seat. It would be difficult to reach the controls in that location. It cost more than the manual control unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 This little 5,000 Frigidaire unit has a low energy start feature which means it is more likely to be able to start with a generator. That is something important if you go off grid. It uses 4.0 amps and 450 watts for cooling If rated for 4 amps and "low energy start" that means it likely needs 12 amps (1400 watts) to start. That is something that something like a Honda EU2000i ought ot handle okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 im thinking of getting a 5000btu 27lbs window air conditioner and install it in a way where it does not protrude off the trailer while still exhausting outdoor. most of the unit will be inside any input? Lots of campers on the dealer lots right now with house type AC units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Some local governments have banned them simply for cosmetic reasons. Subsidies for sure, have been going down. I don't see how anyone can tax someone with a grid-tie solar set-up. In most places, there is NOTHING to tax. Even with a subsidy that pays 75% of the cost of a grid-tie net-metered solar-electric system - it still represents a financial loss when done on a tax spread-sheet. I.e, no gain - nothing to tax. Even the excess power made is usually taken away from the homeowner with no payment (like mine is taken every year). Some towns raise property taxes for a solar install with is a disincentive. Also, according to Federal law - during a national or state emergency - "government" officials can take over a private solar system for the "greater good." That is one good reason to try to keep your system out of the public view if possible. Here in lays the problem, the power co. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865609848/Solar-energy-users-claim-victory-as-sun-tax-rejected.html?pg=allthis is but one state OK all ready pass a "sun tax" some states welcome the grid tie a lot depends on peak demand and their ability to be able to cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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