redskinman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 hours ago, Derek up North said: Plugs gapped at 0.031"? Yes Ok just did test to see which cylinder is misfiring, cylinder 4 showed no change when pulling wire off dis cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) If you don't own a multi-meter you are now officially in the market for one. Remove #4 plug and check it, remove distributor cap and check it. Look for carbon tracks, cracks, broken terminals and such like. Check the resistance of the plug wire with meter. Follow Linda's post about using a meter to check fuel injector coil resistance. NO meter (yet) ?? swap spark plug to different cylinder, no change, then swap ignition wire. IF your new wires showed up then just repace # 4 wire, later change all wires. Swapping injectors is a PIA so get a meter Edited February 8, 2017 by WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, WME said: If you don't own a multi-meter you are now officially in the market for one. Remove #4 plug and check it, remove distributor cap and check it. Look for carbon tracks, cracks, broken terminals and such like. Check the resistance of the plug wire with meter. Follow Linda's post about using a meter to check fuel injector coil resistance. NO meter (yet) ?? swap spark plug to different cylinder, no change, then swap ignition wire. IF your new wires showed up then just repace # 4 wire, later change all wires. Swapping injectors is a PIA so get a meter I have multimeter but dont know how to use it.To check fuel inj dont I have to remove the plenum? If so above my pay grade. Removed the plug,pics attached.Went ahead and checked compression again,tester measured 153 but I think its 10 lbs high,but still good enough reading.Installed a NEW plug and NEW wire and did test again,still no change when pulling wire off.This is brand new dis cap also. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Fuel inj"s have been my #1 suspect this whole time{especially after seeing all the dirt in fuel filter I removed} but to test and or replace is above my pay grade,hence why I've tried seafoam and the Berrymans 3 step fuel inj cleaning kit.Whether thats the problem I dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Â OK simple test. Take a long screw driver place it on the injector put your ear on the handle end start the engine you should hear sort of a buzzing noise this means the injector is getting a signal from the ECU if you get no noise it's either a bad injector or an issue with the ECM. I do not believe the V6 had injector resisters but I could be wrong about that they some times went bad on the 22RE. A "noid" light is the best way to check for a signal from the ECM but in a pinch a 12v test light will work between the two injectors wires it should light with the engine running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, redskinman said: Fuel inj"s have been my #1 suspect this whole time{especially after seeing all the dirt in fuel filter I removed} but to test and or replace is above my pay grade,hence why I've tried seafoam and the Berrymans 3 step fuel inj cleaning kit.Whether thats the problem I dont know. Yep that looks like just about every Toyota fuel filter they never get changed! That ones full of rust. Answer yes that can plug up an injector they do have a very fine screen in the very end of the injector. See if it's making noise first before you pull it out if it is then it's probably plugged up. This is also what I was saying about spray pattern it maybe spraying but not as it should in other words sort of working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 When I replaced the fuel filter there was quite a bit of rust in it. Not being a real mechanic I put no thought into it, only to figure out later all the rust was the inside of the fuel tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Post a pic of the meter, we'll tell you what function to use to test the injector.. Edited February 8, 2017 by WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks for the tips,I will have to get back to fuel inj another time,I wanted to finish the egr block kit today.Pain in the butt to get to some of those nuts but anyway,made this youtube video to see if I am putting the caps where i am supposed to.It came with 3 small caps and 1 large,although their diagram only shows using 2 small caps. http://www.lcengineering.com/LCInstructions/3VZ EGR_delete.pdf  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Heres a pic of everything I took off for the block kit,and a pic of my multimeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 200K should be fine it however will only tell you that the coil is not open it does not mean that it is working. Switch to 20 v range probe the injector plug with the engine running the voltage will be all over the place you can try the 200 volt AC range but I don't think you'll have much luck you can only expect so much from a $8 meter. It's OK though close enough for what you are trying to do. I still suggest the sound test that at least means it's trying to do some thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) OK digital meter. Black probe goes COM, red probe goes to the middle port. Install battery, turn on meter, turn dial to 200 ohm (ohm symbol is upside down horse shoe). Short the red and black leads togather, the meter should read 0. CAREFULLY remove wire harness from #4 injector, with the meter in 200 ohm position touch one lead to pin/contact in the injector the other lead to the other pin. A good injector coil will read 14-16 ohms. .00 anything is bad. A total open bad. Check a good cylinder injector just to make sure you got it right, You can have a good injector coil and still have a bad injector. Forget about measuring the injector pulse with that meter. Edited February 10, 2017 by WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 thanks for the responses,will have to wait till Sunday when I have the day off and see what I can come up with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I have been googling this but cannot find a definitive answer.Since cylinder #4 seems to be where misfire is coming from but compression is good,does that eliminate the need for a leak down test? Or is leak down test only neccessary when compression is bad? Is it possible I might have a bad valve even if compression is good? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 A leakdown test is part of evaluation of an poor engine, compression test first. If the compression test is OK then no leakdown is needed. IF compression is bad or all over the map, then a leakdown will help identify the problem in each cylinder. Bad rings, bad valve or bad head gasket. We also use a leakdown test on new HP engines to check ring seal, then every so often you do it again and compare. If it drops more than a few % its time to rering. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Just now, WME said: A leakdown test is part of evaluation of an poor engine, compression test first. If the compression test is OK then no leakdown is needed. IF compression is bad or all over the map, then a leakdown will help identify the problem in each cylinder. Bad rings, bad valve or bad head gasket. We also use a leakdown test on new HP engines to check ring seal, then every so often you do it again and compare. If it drops more than a few % its time to rering. Â Ok thanks,thats good news.I'm trying to eliminate all the things it could possibly be.Compression in all the cylinders was in 140-150 range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 You got spark and vacuum stuff is all checked out. I found some misfire stuff online and a guy spent tons of time just like you have. Turned out it was the fuel injector on only that one cylinder that was bad. It happens. His literally fell apart when he removed it Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 2 hours ago, linda s said: You got spark and vacuum stuff is all checked out. I found some misfire stuff online and a guy spent tons of time just like you have. Turned out it was the fuel injector on only that one cylinder that was bad. It happens. His literally fell apart when he removed it Linda S Thats what I am hoping it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 Used injectors $12-$18, really! are you that desperate? Remfg injectors $35-$50 ea, or $125-$300 a set. New are $75-$175 ea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 6 hours ago, WME said: Used injectors $12-$18, really! are you that desperate? Remfg injectors $35-$50 ea, or $125-$300 a set. New are $75-$175 ea. ??? I'm confused,I dont know what you mean am I really that desperate? Who said anything about buying a used injector? I am just hoping it's a bad inj and nothing else.As far as how much they cost the issue would be I dont have the skills to replace them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 I don't think he was referring to you since you never said anything like that. The article I posted said something about throwing in the junk yard injector. Maybe he was thinking of that. Yeah I couldn't replace an injector either. I'm just lucky enough to have a family member who can if I ever needed one. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) That line wasn't about you. There are used injectors all over EBay. All that is involved to change an injector, labor, new o-rings and gaskets, who would install a used injector? But there they are, so somebody is doing it. Edited February 12, 2017 by WME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, WME said: That line wasn't about you. There are used injectors all over EBay. All that is involved to change an injector, labor, new o-rings and gaskets, who would install a used injector? But there they are, so somebody is doing it. Oh ok,I had no clue what you were talking about. Turns out #4 inj is under throttle body,I cant get to it to test with meter but putting screwdriver up to it and listening I can hear the clicking sound so thats not good,doesnt help me find the problem.I'd feel a whole lot better about it just being the inj if it passed a leakdown test on that cylinder.I think I'll probably end up buying the Harbor Freight tester and testing it myself,I'm leery of believing anything a shop tells me at this point. A guy on the toyotech forum said when his last head gasket let loose a cold compression test still showed less than 1-2 psi variation, small enough to not be measured on the Napa gauge I have.He had 120 psi at #1 and around 125 on the rest, with a dead battery, the gasket failed between #2 #3 Edited February 12, 2017 by redskinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 This is what someone told me on toyotech forum after seeing pics of the plug out of # 4 Â " You have ash deposited, that shows it is/was firing at least some at one point. It's dark and chunky not dark and sooty, that means oil not over fueling. bottom third of the ground strap is still shiny, that means it's not been ran up to higher speed or maybe its not combusting more than half of what it's given at WOT. Pretty typical of a leak at the valve stem.. It looks like the electrode might be bent, anybody else seeing that(?), that's not a denso feature that I am aware of.. Wondering if you can get any garbage out of that cylinder.. I would pull the computer fuse, the #4 plug, hook up jumper cables to another running engine, hold a clean white catch rag to #4 and crank the bejebus out of it... Or put a bore scope down it if that's more hillbilly than you have in you.. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Ok so I did the leak down test yesterday but I believe I screwed the pooch and I didnt realize it till after I had put everything back together and I was too tired and disgusted with myself to start over,will tackle it again Sunday weather permitting. So I tested cylinders 2,4,and 6 first.For the first 3 cylinders I had truck in gear with parking brake on.Then I took a lunch break and when I did the other 3 cyl I forgot to put truck in gear like I had the other test,this is where I think I pooched it. So first cyl I tested was 4,where I thought I had the misfire.I did the test multiple times on each cylinder,it seemed like i would get a different reading depending on how fast I could get them coupled together.This Harbor Freight tester looks like it works a little differently then the other testers I have seen on youtube.At 40% leakage it still says that is moderate. So cylinder 4 tested under 10 % 3 times. Cylinder 2 I got readings of,10,20,and 18 Cylinder 6 I got readings of 25,30,and 30. Then took lunch break Came back,forgot to put truck back in gear. Cylinder 5-40,38,35 Cylinder 3-34,40,45 Cylinder 1-40,40,didnt do a 3rd test So after these other readings were so much higher then the first 3 I went back and checked cyl 2 and 6 again and got readings of 40%,a lot different then the first readings when I had truck in gear. At no point did I ever hear any air leaking anywhere.I checked tailpipe,looked for bubbles in radiator,heard no air coming out of dipstick tube. But I did forget to take oil cap off and listen there,and I listened for air at throttle body but forgot to open intake and listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Do you have a stick or automatic?? IF an automatic then being in gear doesn't matter. But you need to turn the engine so that each piston is at TDC when checked Sounds like your Sunday is going to be busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, WME said: Do you have a stick or automatic?? IF an automatic then being in gear doesn't matter. But you need to turn the engine so that each piston is at TDC when checked Sounds like your Sunday is going to be busy. It's an automatic.So if that's true then maybe that Harbor Freight tester is crap.Like I posted,first time I checked cyl 4{with truck in gear} got less than 10% leakage.When I came back and tried it again with truck not in gear it had 40% leakage so somethings not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Did you turn the engine by hand to ensure each piston is at TDC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 2/12/2017 at 1:05 PM, redskinman said: Oh ok,I had no clue what you were talking about. Turns out #4 inj is under throttle body,I cant get to it to test with meter but putting screwdriver up to it and listening I can hear the clicking sound so thats not good,doesnt help me find the problem. Yes actually it does that means there is not a computer/wiring issue it pretty much points to a pouched injector read plugged up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 12 hours ago, Maineah said: Yes actually it does that means there is not a computer/wiring issue it pretty much points to a pouched injector read plugged up. Yeah I worded that wrong,like you said it does let me know it is working{or trying to work}but i still did not find the problem.I'm still not wording it right.I was hoping I would not hear any clicking sounds so I would have that "aha" moment and know that was the reason for the misfire,but since it was clicking I didnt get that moment.I know it could still be a plugged inj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, WME said: Did you turn the engine by hand to ensure each piston is at TDC? Yes I did.I used a balloon attached to compression tester hose{without gauge attached}so when the balloon started to fill up with air I knew I was on compression stroke,then I would stick screwdriver in and stop at its highest point. I am going to take this tester back to HF and exchange it this morning and see if i get different results when I test it tomorrow. Also if fuel inj is bad,shouldnt I be getting a code for this? I have had this misfire the whole time but only codes have been for EGR malfunction,and first place I took it to also said it was reading a code for a lean condtion,but 2nd shop never mentioned that code. I havent put any miles on it since putting on the block kit.When I get home from work today I'm going to take it for a spin and put at least 50 miles on it,see if I get check engine light to come on and then I'll see how spark plugs look tomorrow. Edited February 18, 2017 by redskinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Do the leak check with the new tester see what happens. If the results are all over the map, squirt some oil in each cylinder and bump the engine over for a few turns and re do the check. UNPLUG the dist trigger wires. If your injector is electrically OK, but mechanically bad you may not get a code. Disconnect the battery for 15 min to clear codes before the drive. Then check the codes your self. Put #4 spark plug in a different cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 ok put 75 miles on truck last night.Check engine light came on,its flashing code 25,which I believe is lean condition. Took truck for short spin this morning and pulled plugs to get ready for leak down and found something disturbing. Spark plug1,2,5 and 6 looked fine,spark plug 4 was dark and had some oil on it like before,but sparkplug 3 is what is freaking me out.The gap in it was huge compared to others,it had a growth sprouting up from center electrode,and ground electrode had a round indention in it,wtf? On to the leak down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Time for really dumb questions Are the plugs all the same brand and PN? #3 looks like an Autolite double Platinum. Did you move #4 to different cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinman Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, WME said: Time for really dumb questions Are the plugs all the same brand and PN? #3 looks like an Autolite double Platinum. Did you move #4 to different cylinder? Excellent catch! I had ordered 8 denso k16r-u plugs from advanced auto.Well that plug that is all messed up is a Denson pk20tt that was in a k16r-u box,wtf advanced auto? Would 1 wrong plug cause it to do that? I'm 99% sure I gapped all those plugs so I dont know how that gap got so big. As for moving #4,I did not move it before I drove it last night or today because when I did the test Wed that plug looked brand new,it had 0 miles on itonly run time on it was from starting truck in the driveway.I did move it to cylinder 6 after test today. Edited February 19, 2017 by redskinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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