Egr Valve Replacement?

[vrocrider]

23 hours ago, redskinman said:

Ok thanks

So sounds like you think testing distributor is waste of time just to go ahead and buy one and replace it which I guess is what I will do. I don't know what else to do at this point, I've tried everything. If it still has misfire after this I'm going to have to break down and take it to another garage where they will probably over charge me for another misdiagnosis.

The critical check on the ignition system is a clean on/off fire on each spark plug wire. My system didn't pass so I focused on distributor which solved problem. If you get the same failure of the timing light strobe NOT to on/off on each wire then I agree I wouldn't waste time doing ohm test on distributor. 

Note I had no CEL.     

Just noticed you are in Cypress, Tx. Great source of information can be gained from Texas Car Doctor call in show on KSEV AM700 Houston on Saturdays 12 - 2PM. Skeeter's & Robert offer a wealth of info on the air. You can also call them direct at shop.    

I live in Alabama now but I still listen every Saturday via internet.   

Edited March 12, 2017 by vrocrider

[Maineah]

Several years ago I replaced an ECM because it had a faulty injector driver in a Cadillac that had been to several garages including a GM garage one went as far as to replace the engine and it still did not run right! This does not have a bearing on your issue except for the fact that jumping all over the place will get you no where. 

[redskinman]

1 hour ago, vrocrider said:

The critical check on the ignition system is a clean on/off fire on each spark plug wire. My system didn't pass so I focused on distributor which solved problem. If you get the same failure of the timing light strobe NOT to on/off on each wire then I agree I wouldn't waste time doing ohm test on distributor. 

Note I had no CEL.     

Just noticed you are in Cypress, Tx. Great source of information can be gained from Texas Car Doctor call in show on KSEV AM700 Houston on Saturdays 12 - 2PM. Skeeter's & Robert offer a wealth of info on the air. You can also call them direct at shop.    

I live in Alabama now but I still listen every Saturday via internet.   

Thanks,I didnt know that show was on the air.Skeeter's auto shop is within a mile of my house

[redskinman]

33 minutes ago, Maineah said:

Several years ago I replaced an ECM because it had a faulty injector driver in a Cadillac that had been to several garages including a GM garage one went as far as to replace the engine and it still did not run right! This does not have a bearing on your issue except for the fact that jumping all over the place will get you no where. 

I dont know what else to do.I'm on 2 forums asking for advice,have tried everything i've been told to check.I've taken it to a garage and If I would have listened to them I would have been out 1100 bucks and it still not be fixed.The way I see it if I take it back to another garage they are going to be guessing like I am{because whatever they say they think it is,they will not guarantee its going to fix the problem} and charging me 5 times more.Just like your post says one garage replaced the whole engine and it still didnt fix the car so I'm not sure what your advice is? Keep paying out the behind to different garages till I find one that gets it right because that seems to be the moral of your story if I'm understanding it correctly? The things I've done to it to try and fix the misfire are all things that needed to be done anyway and so far I'm out around 500 in parts with most of that going to the EGR valve and temp sensor which I'm not even using anymore since I put on the block kit.{need to try and sell those on Ebay I guess}

I've ordered the distributor.If that doesnt fix it then i'm done,I will have to let a shop try and figure it out.

[256bit]

Don't feel like reading the whole thread but if it hasn't been suggested already you can remove the emissions systems and vacuum lines, all you need is some plugs and block plates (which you can get from lce)

[vrocrider]

8 minutes ago, redskinman said:

Thanks,I didnt know that show was on the air.Skeeter's auto shop is within a mile of my house

Another suggestion.

Lots of posts but as of today it appears you are getting ONLY code 71.

I had no CEL check engine light so I don't want to send down the road of replacing distributor when your computer is clearly telling you there is an issue in EGR system. You may have an ignition too but I'd start by addressing the code 71 issue.

GOOGLE 3VZE code 71 & you'll a lot of posts on YotaTech.com & ToyotaNation.com. Some of these are very technical & go into great detail on how to check for fault code 71. 

Skeeter is great but the best is Robert who's owner of AutoTectronics in Katy. You can send Skeeter an email via Texas Car Doctor on internet & he'll respond.

There guys are very very good but if you digest what's on the forums you'll be way ahead of the game.    

If you have the time & patience I'd do the Google & call the show on Saturday & post here for support. 

Good luck.     

[redskinman]

7 minutes ago, vrocrider said:

Another suggestion.

Lots of posts but as of today it appears you are getting ONLY code 71.

I had no CEL check engine light so I don't want to send down the road of replacing distributor when your computer is clearly telling you there is an issue in EGR system. You may have an ignition too but I'd start by addressing the code 71 issue.

GOOGLE 3VZE code 71 & you'll a lot of posts on YotaTech.com & ToyotaNation.com. Some of these are very technical & go into great detail on how to check for fault code 71. 

Skeeter is great but the best is Robert who's owner of AutoTectronics in Katy. You can send Skeeter an email via Texas Car Doctor on internet & he'll respond.

There guys are very very good but if you digest what's on the forums you'll be way ahead of the game.    

If you have the time & patience I'd do the Google & call the show on Saturday & post here for support. 

Good luck.     

I'm not getting code for EGR malfunction anymore since putting on block kit.There probably was a problem with EGR system but apparently it was not the cause of my misfire.Last code I got was code 25 for lean condition,which leads back to fuel injs so thats why I replaced them.I've only put 10 miles on it since replacing injectors but so far check engine light has not come back on.

thanks

Edited March 13, 2017 by redskinman

[redskinman]

1 minute ago, redskinman said:

I'm not getting code for EGR malfunction anymore since putting on block kit.There probably was a problem with EGR system but apparently it was not the cause of my misfire.Last code I got was code 25 for lean condition,which leads back to fuel injs so thats why I replaced them.I've only put 10 miles on it since replacing injectors but so far check engine light has not come back on.

thanks

Also if you went back a couple pages and saw how bad my fuel filter was when I took it out I figured it could use some new fuel injs.

[vrocrider]

27 minutes ago, redskinman said:

Also if you went back a couple pages and saw how bad my fuel filter was when I took it out I figured it could use some new fuel injs.

Like you I replaced my fuel injectors because my F filter was trashed like yours & RV sat for 5 years. Both Skeeter & Robert discouraged replacing injectors. I was unfortunately swayed by another guy. New injectors didn't work. 

While I waited for my distributor I did some research on injectors & discovered each one has a fine mesh metal filter on the inlet side. Google rebuilding injectors & you'll see a bunch of you tube videos. I pulled every injector filter & each one was perfect. Very surprising. Only then was I convinced the distributor would solve my problem which it did.      

[darrel]

On a earlier post about spark plugs I mentioned that on my 2004 Tacoma it had Nippon Denso plugs on one side an NGK on the other side from the factory. I ask Toyota service manager about this. He said, Toyota does this to see if the spark plugs have ever been changed??

Darrel

[redskinman]

13 hours ago, vrocrider said:

Like you I replaced my fuel injectors because my F filter was trashed like yours & RV sat for 5 years. Both Skeeter & Robert discouraged replacing injectors. I was unfortunately swayed by another guy. New injectors didn't work. 

While I waited for my distributor I did some research on injectors & discovered each one has a fine mesh metal filter on the inlet side. Google rebuilding injectors & you'll see a bunch of you tube videos. I pulled every injector filter & each one was perfect. Very surprising. Only then was I convinced the distributor would solve my problem which it did.      

So I emailed Skeeter,this is his suggestion:

 

"Before you replace the distributor get a vacuum gauge and hook it up to a direct vacuum outlet then crank it up. If the gauge is real erratic back and forth while running there is a bad or broken valve spring or crack in valve seat."

Skeeter

 

So can anyone suggest exactly where I should hook up vacuum pump?

thanks

[vrocrider]

9 minutes ago, redskinman said:

So I emailed Skeeter,this is his suggestion:

 

"Before you replace the distributor get a vacuum gauge and hook it up to a direct vacuum outlet then crank it up. If the gauge is real erratic back and forth while running there is a bad or broken valve spring or crack in valve seat."

Skeeter

 

So can anyone suggest exactly where I should hook up vacuum pump?

thanks

There are alot of V lines near where the EGR was.

Not to confuse you or side track you but I found something that might interest you on Yotatech.com.

    Ok 3VZE owners, check it out. I know a lot of ppl have had these exact symptoms with no relief. I hate when i see a topic that isn't updated LONG after you know someone must have fixed the problem, and I think this is a somewhat valuable update so here ya are:

Symptoms: Rough or slow idle, surging during acceleration, setting codes 71 and 52, fires up but dies quickly, or sometimes not at all running rich, jumpy timing weak, intermittent, or sometime no spark at all.

My problem was: Circuit I15 (hopefully you all have access a wiring diagram) had a nasty spot it in. It is a piece of shielded wire that goes from the ecm, to the dist., and is actually integrated with the EGR GTS (code 71) the knock sensor (code 52) the o2 sensor, the tps, the circuit opening relay and a couple of essential things. I'll stop there. 

The solution: Hooked auto ranging DMM (digital multi meter) from + batter terminal, to a section of shielded wire on the end of the line, right before the pigtial the connects to the distributor (battery totally unhooked of course. Poked, prodded, pushed, pulled until I came to the big bundle of wires that is in the rh side of engine compartment. Grabbed em and pulled a bit and WOW, the dmm resistance reading went crazy. I didn't know I had found the problem, but I knew it needed fixing. I then found that the fat grey wires connect DIRECTLY to junction block CM2 I think (for your reference). Did some testing and found that there had been previous problems before (unless it came tape like hell from the factory, who knows).

Under the plastic wire shroud right in front of the fan, the I15's RED wire, which is G1 to the dist, had broken insulation, and wire internally corroded (as were the other 3). I cut out the section of wire, and saw it to be unfixble. I went to Home Depot and WOW, the happened to have shielded wire EXACTLY like what i needed. They even have it on a huge spool for 38c a foot for those who may be wondering. I cut the wire back a few inches and rewired it to the dist pigtail and plugged it in, using foil and a big piece of shrink wrap to keep continuity on the shielded portion.

Buttoned everything else up, hopped in, turned key, and WOW, this trucks runs WAYYYY better and smoother than it EVER HAS.

SO, if thread helps anyone out there, let us all know! So far one person other than myself has been overcome with relief.

Happy again 3vze owner
 

[vrocrider]

22 minutes ago, redskinman said:

So I emailed Skeeter,this is his suggestion:

 

"Before you replace the distributor get a vacuum gauge and hook it up to a direct vacuum outlet then crank it up. If the gauge is real erratic back and forth while running there is a bad or broken valve spring or crack in valve seat."

Skeeter

 

So can anyone suggest exactly where I should hook up vacuum pump?

thanks

Hang in there. Between forums & Car Doctor call in you'll get it fixed.

If worst case you have to take it to Skeeter 100% guarantee he'll fix it. I have personal experience. Only negative is he's like any professional, he gets paid for his time. He's reasonable but not cheap.    

[redskinman]

On 2017-03-13 at 0:33 PM, vrocrider said:

Hang in there. Between forums & Car Doctor call in you'll get it fixed.

If worst case you have to take it to Skeeter 100% guarantee he'll fix it. I have personal experience. Only negative is he's like any professional, he gets paid for his time. He's reasonable but not cheap.    

ok thanks. Thanks to everyone that's trying to help me.

Would you say the best vacuum line to hook vacuum gauge up to would be vacuum hose coming out of brake booster?

[WME]

Any port direct on the manifold AFTER the throttle body will do.

[redskinman]

16 hours ago, WME said:

Any port direct on the manifold AFTER the throttle body will do.

ok thanks.

If it turns out it does have a broken valve spring that looks like a lot of money. As you all know I'm not much of a mechanic, so I could be wrong but from researching changing out valve springs the videos I watched showed valve springs pretty easy to get to once valve cover is removed. My engine however looks like valve springs are buried and will probably have to take head off, can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Maineah]

3 hours ago, redskinman said:

ok thanks.

If it turns out it does have a broken valve spring that looks like a lot of money. As you all know I'm not much of a mechanic, so I could be wrong but from researching changing out valve springs the videos I watched showed valve springs pretty easy to get to once valve cover is removed. My engine however looks like valve springs are buried and will probably have to take head off, can anyone confirm or deny this?

When a spring breaks it is not exactly quiet.

[vrocrider]

3 hours ago, redskinman said:

ok thanks.

If it turns out it does have a broken valve spring that looks like a lot of money. As you all know I'm not much of a mechanic, so I could be wrong but from researching changing out valve springs the videos I watched showed valve springs pretty easy to get to once valve cover is removed. My engine however looks like valve springs are buried and will probably have to take head off, can anyone confirm or deny this?

This design engine typically burns the exhaust valve and or valve seat due to poor maintenance on valve clearances. I was say low odds valve spring failure based on others' experiences with this engine.

How many miles are on this engine? I assume it's had the head gasket update done by Toyota?    

[redskinman]

On 3/14/2017 at 11:55 AM, vrocrider said:

This design engine typically burns the exhaust valve and or valve seat due to poor maintenance on valve clearances. I was say low odds valve spring failure based on others' experiences with this engine.

How many miles are on this engine? I assume it's had the head gasket update done by Toyota?    

125,000

Yes it had head gasket update May 19,1998,unknown mileage at that time.

Edited March 15, 2017 by redskinman

[redskinman]

Ok rented vacuum gauge today.Hooked tester up to vacuum line coming out of brake booster and it held steady at 17,I hope this eliminates anything to do with the valves.I emailed back the car doctor,we'll see if he provides a follow up.

[vrocrider]

I'm optimistic the distributor will solve your problem. If Skeeter hasn't already told you look for cracked vacuum lines too.   

[redskinman]

35 minutes ago, vrocrider said:

I'm optimistic the distributor will solve your problem. If Skeeter hasn't already told you look for cracked vacuum lines too.   

He hasnt told me but that was first thing I checked,cant find any cracks and Ive used propane and carb cleaner spraying around to try and find leaks and havent been able to.

Drove it up to Skeeters today to see if this would be somebody I could eventually take it to to get valves adjusted. I was very disappointed in the treatment I got. Service writer never got up from his desk to look at it. Told me at least 3 times they dont work on motorhomes. I tried explaining its just a Toyota, he said yeah I can see its a Toyota, I'm looking at it. He says it wont fit on the lift, I told him I dont think it would be a problem, muffler shop raised it no problem. He still was very disinterested. I told him you dont need to put it on a lift to do a valve adjustment anyway. Finally he relented and said bring it back tomorrow and LEAVE IT so his mechanics could look at it and see if they could work on it {mechanics had left already} I should have asked for Skeeter but I didnt, I hope he emails me back.

[Maineah]

Nothing wrong with that. Put a distributor in it then save your money for what ever else come up. 

[redskinman]

On 3/14/2017 at 11:55 AM, vrocrider said:

This design engine typically burns the exhaust valve and or valve seat due to poor maintenance on valve clearances. I was say low odds valve spring failure based on others' experiences with this engine.

How many miles are on this engine? I assume it's had the head gasket update done by Toyota?    

I am just noticing you said this line for some reason.I can find no record of valves ever being adjusted,so yes that concerns me.As soon as I can figure out this damn misfire my next priority is putting it in shop for timing belt and valve adjustment{if I can find someone willing to do it! I am also just noticing you are in Houston,who did you get to do your valves?}

[vrocrider]

I'm no longer in Houston. Need to update my profile. Recently moved to the Alabama gulf coast. Don't miss Houston.

Very surprised about the treatment you received at Skeeters. I've had them do some stuff that others didn't do right and was very pleased. Several different cars over several years. Only down side is per hour rate is close or at dealer rate. Up side is they know what they're doing & you won't waste time or money guessing what will fix problem.

An alternate to email I'd suggest you call the radio show Saturday & talk to Skeeter & Robert. Let Skeeter know you'd like to bring it in for timing belt & valve maintenance work. Ask him how much $. Show is every Saturday 12 - 2PM on KSEV.

From a trouble shooting point of view I actually think Robert is the best. Only problem is his shop is in Katy. I've never been to his shop. 

My rig has low mileage (65K) and I'm assuming my valves were done when the head gasket recall was performed. I did not own vehicle when this was performed. 

A Google search indicates Toyota factory service manual suggests valve adjustment is every 60K miles or 36 months. The valve train design is such that if clearance get too tight the valve will not close completely & you then have a condition that could create a burned valve. Forums I read indicate the exhaust valve is most at risk. 

Suggestion...call Toyota corporate with VIN number in hand. I believe they should be able to produce date/mileage/dealership-shop where head gasket repair was done. Compare that info against where you are today (125K miles) to know how urgent you need to get valves checked. As you probably know burned valves means the cylinder heads have to come off for repair.  Also note you have what's called a non interference design motor. That means if your timing belt were to break it will not hurt the engine.    

Like Maineah said put the distributor in & let us know how it goes.          

Edited March 16, 2017 by vrocrider
typo

[Derek up North]

I'll disagree. Both the FSM ('88 & '93) and my '91 Owners Manual Service Schedule show valves @ 60k miles, the same as the timing belt.

93_FSM_Combined.pdf

[vrocrider]

5 hours ago, Derek up North said:

I'll disagree. Both the FSM ('88 & '93) and my '91 Owners Manual Service Schedule show valves @ 60k miles, the same as the timing belt.

93_FSM_Combined.pdf

Agree with you. Typo error on 36K.

I've seen 60K & 70K on internet. Don't have access to factory service manual. 

Couldn't get pdf to work.

[Derek up North]

7 hours ago, vrocrider said:

I've seen 60K & 70K on internet.

On the internet, unfortunately, you'll also read that they never need adjusting.

[redskinman]

15 hours ago, vrocrider said:

I'm no longer in Houston. Need to update my profile. Recently moved to the Alabama gulf coast. Don't miss Houston.

Very surprised about the treatment you received at Skeeters. I've had them do some stuff that others didn't do right and was very pleased. Several different cars over several years. Only down side is per hour rate is close or at dealer rate. Up side is they know what they're doing & you won't waste time or money guessing what will fix problem.

An alternate to email I'd suggest you call the radio show Saturday & talk to Skeeter & Robert. Let Skeeter know you'd like to bring it in for timing belt & valve maintenance work. Ask him how much $. Show is every Saturday 12 - 2PM on KSEV.

From a trouble shooting point of view I actually think Robert is the best. Only problem is his shop is in Katy. I've never been to his shop. 

My rig has low mileage (65K) and I'm assuming my valves were done when the head gasket recall was performed. I did not own vehicle when this was performed. 

A Google search indicates Toyota factory service manual suggests valve adjustment is every 60K miles or 36 months. The valve train design is such that if clearance get too tight the valve will not close completely & you then have a condition that could create a burned valve. Forums I read indicate the exhaust valve is most at risk. 

Suggestion...call Toyota corporate with VIN number in hand. I believe they should be able to produce date/mileage/dealership-shop where head gasket repair was done. Compare that info against where you are today (125K miles) to know how urgent you need to get valves checked. As you probably know burned valves means the cylinder heads have to come off for repair.  Also note you have what's called a non interference design motor. That means if your timing belt were to break it will not hurt the engine.    

Like Maineah said put the distributor in & let us know how it goes.          

Ok called Toyota who said in May of 98 when it had head gasket done it had 95,000 miles on it.The lady I talked to said I could find all this info online if I joined toyota online owners.com,so I did and she was wrong.She also told me the thermostat was replaced at same time{which I knew was bull} It only showed 1 record of thermostat being replaced in 2010 at 113,503 miles,nothing about the head gasket.Just as this lady couldnt be trusted I dont trust that the dealer did the valve adjustment when doing the head gasket.

Edited March 16, 2017 by redskinman

[redskinman]

On 3/15/2017 at 6:06 PM, vrocrider said:

I'm optimistic the distributor will solve your problem. If Skeeter hasn't already told you look for cracked vacuum lines too.   

I'm no longer optimistic about anything,I thought the fuel inj was going to solve problem.

I heard back from Skeeter who somehow overlooked my last email to him telling him the results of the test I did,he was just telling me how to hook up vacuum gauge.I know he received my email because it was included in the conversation of the email he replied back to me in.

So I emailed him back again telling him the results and my experience at his shop and asked him if his shop can indeed do a valve adjustment and how much.Now I regret mentioning it to him about my experience{because I'm paranoid}I'm afraid now if I took it back to them to do the work that service advisor{who I already think is a behind}would try to stick it to me any way he could for saying something to Skeeter about him.

[redskinman]

Heard back from Skeeter,this is his reply:

George,

That is not really a vacuum source that I would have recommended but vacuum is vacuum  I guess!  But as long as the needle was steady as you say it seems as if all the internals are good. I don’t know if the distributor will do it or not but I do know that they fail often.

Yes we can take the motorhome in. I do not work on them if the customer is in a hurry to get it out. The regular cars come first then the coaches. Yes I can get the proper shims from Toyota as needed. I will need you to leave it with us though before we can get to it.

Skeeter

[Derek up North]

Nice of him to reply. Too bad, since he wasn't thrilled with your vacuum source, that the didn't bother to tell you a source that he would have used so that you could try it!

[redskinman]

Well just finished putting in the distrib,doesnt seem to be any change.It was dark when I finished so havent tried pulling off plug wires one by one to see if its still cyl 4,will try tomorrow.

It just doesnt sound right,I dont know how to explain it.The exhaust just does not have the right sound,and it also sounds like there an exhaust leak somewhere but muffler shop never mentioned exhaust leak and neither did the garage I took it to.I need to crawl under it tomorrow and have wife rev it up while I am under there and see if I can find one.

[WME]

To find an exhaust leak just fold up a rag and hold it over the tail pipe, A leak will hiss like a rabid snake.

[redskinman]

24 minutes ago, WME said:

To find an exhaust leak just fold up a rag and hold it over the tail pipe, A leak will hiss like a rabid snake.

Ok good to know,thanks.I was thinking about how I said the sound of exhaust was hard to describe but now that I think about it more, I would describe it as sputtering sound.