fred heath Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 While changing the head gasket on my 1978 20R I found one bolt was slightly bent. I went online and found two different bolt sets, both for the 20R. One set was $20.00 the other $63.00. The $63.00 set specified for 1975-80 OEM. The other set $20.00 was non specific but also OEM. Is there any real difference or can I use the cheaper set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Got any online references to the 2 options? It's hard to comment just based on the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I just ordered mine from toyota and they were just over $6 a piece. I think with head bolts...I'd go OEM when in doubt... Or contact ted at engnbldr.com and see what he says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 Spoke with the company Tech this morning. The inexpensive set is 3mm shorter than the OEM factory set. The reason for the more expensive set was that extra 3mm was used on the 1975-80 20R. This company is Toyota specific,and tech told me there would be no problems with the cheaper set. They're a common use item. These bolts also work on the 22R and 22RE blocks. They are OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Luckily I got the head bolts from Toyota down to $45, so I don't feel too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Luckily I got the head bolts from Toyota down to $45, so I don't feel too bad. With shipping mine came to $32.00. I'm still waiting for them to be shipped from WA state. Sounds like you got the better deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I've been to the dealership enough that I have some sort of discount they must give to shops. They're technically about $65. Then I signed up for some Toyota owners club last time I was in, and somehow I had $10 credit because of that...so really my cost was $55, and they had the bolts in the Portland dealership, so just one day shipping. My head gasket will be here Monday, along with a new clicking torque wrench. I should be ready to go! Got my 20R engine Toyota manual in the mail yesterday. The actual Toyota procedure is to take the head off with both manifolds still attached, so that simplifies the job a bit. I just have to hope my head is in good shape. Would be too bad if my leak was because of a crack in the head, and not a bad gasket... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 I've been to the dealership enough that I have some sort of discount they must give to shops. They're technically about $65. Then I signed up for some Toyota owners club last time I was in, and somehow I had $10 credit because of that...so really my cost was $55, and they had the bolts in the Portland dealership, so just one day shipping. My head gasket will be here Monday, along with a new clicking torque wrench. I should be ready to go! Got my 20R engine Toyota manual in the mail yesterday. The actual Toyota procedure is to take the head off with both manifolds still attached, so that simplifies the job a bit. I just have to hope my head is in good shape. Would be too bad if my leak was because of a crack in the head, and not a bad gasket... I just did mine, and am awaiting parts. You can remove as a unit. A 1 ton engine crane makes the job easier. Remove the hood and use the factory engine slings. Your exhaust bolts are 14mm. Valve cover 12mm. Head bolts 17mm, cam bolt 19mm, crank bolt 19mm. 6 point sockets are the way to go. (12point will work). Engine hoist makes the job pretty easy if your working solo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnynshare Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Remove the hood and use the factory engine slings. Your exhaust bolts are 14mm. Valve cover 12mm. Head bolts 17mm, cam bolt 19mm, crank bolt 19mm. 6 point sockets are the way to go. (12point will work). Just a quiet reminder about the 10mm hidden bolt under the distributor drive gear (if this engine has it). Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Thanks Kim, On ours it's 12mm. It's the first bolt out, last bolt in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Yep, Toyota manual says that bolt must be removed before loosening the head bolts. And it's typically hidden in a little pool of oil. Tricky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Funny my Toyota manual says that bolt is 14mm. It was definitely 12mm. Did you bring your head in to a shop? Or did you just use a straightedge to make sure it was nice and flat? I've seen that I should use a machinists straightedge, not a ruler, but I don't think I'm going to do that...so I'll probably just use a metal ruler. I've never overheated the engine, but I don't know about previous owners, so I figured I'd better make sure before putting it all back together. Did you worry about cleaning the carbon deposits on the pistons or valves while you had it apart? I've heard mixed advice on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 Found some carbon on #4 piston. Scraped off gentley being careful not to scrape the piston. Keep a shop vac running to catch any small pieces. Be sure to blow out your bolt holes with compressed air. Any liquid will throw off your torque settings and potentially crack the block. Manually hand thread each bolt into the block before you reinstall the head. They should go in smoothly with no binding. If not, chase the threads with a tap. Last, clean the mating surface of the exhaust manifold and header pipe. Put a new gasket in. It's much easier with the head off. Mine went back together fine and is running good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I have carbon on all of them, and the valves. A guy at the parts store said to leave them alone...too much chance of getting all that stuff down in the bearings. Not sure how much clean piston heads matter.? I used a little can of compressed air to blow out the head bolt holes. And I have a thread chaser set in the mail. I'll need it...spark plugs 2 and 4 have been cross threaded.. I'll post a photo of my old exhaust manifold gasket...there wasn't much left! . And all but two of the nuts/bolts were just a bit more than finger tight...including where the manifold bolts to the tailpipe. This will definitely quiet things down. It had a nice full size truck rumble to it before. Not the sound I associate with an exhuast manifold leak...but we'll see how it sounds when it's back together. I pulled out a manifold gasket that came with a rebuild kit for my 83, and surprisingly, it looks like it'll fit this engine. That's nice. It's very tempting to do a de-smog while everything is so accessible...but I just don't have the money right now for those block off plates, or the tools to make my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 I don't think it'll make a big difference. I just did it because they were accessible. Do the head bolts have the same thread as the sparkplugs? I saw only 1 tap in your post. Lucky my threads were all good. PM me with a contact # if you run into any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Thanks! I bought a whole set from Sears, so hopefully it'll have the right size for the plugs. I'm still not sure if I should just bring the head in to a machine shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Well I went ahead and dropped the head off to be cleaned, resurfaced and tested. They'll check out the spark plug holes, too. Hopefully only $60 if it pressure tests ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/spark-plug-standard-thread-form-92111/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Well good thing the shop will take care of it, then. I'm sure I'll use these tools again...but the added expense of having to buy specialty tools to finish these jobs is adding up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I can't seem to get the distributer in right... I stuck it in with the rotor pointing straight up, and when it went in, it rotated a bit forward (towards the front of the engine) just like it shows in my manual. But I had to advance the timing all the way to get it to stay running. It seems like no matter how I install it (within the specs of how it should look), I need to have the distributer turned all the way one way or the other to keep it running. It runs ok, but I know it shouldn't have to be advanced all the way just to keep running. What's confusing me now is that I feel like I've got the timing retarded all the way now, and that was the only way to keep it running...which makes no sense. If I had it too far the other way, it should be really revving. It shouldn't die when it's advanced and only idle high enough when I retard it...but I'm pretty sure that's where I've got it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Set engine at TDC with #1 cylinder on compression (both valves closed) Install spark plug cap on distributor and mark distributor where #1 wire is. Remove cap Install rotor and install distributor in engine. Rotor should point to #1 mark on distributor. If not remove and move things 1 tooth and reinstall. Make sure that the adjustor bolt is in the middle of its range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hey thanks. I had watched a video on this, so I watched again. I had missed something...He says to crank the engine clockwise to TDC, since that's the direction the engine would run. For whatever reason, I was going counter clockwise, and so there may have been some slack in the chain or something. I cranked it to TDC going clockwise instead, and it seemed like the distributer went in at a bit of a different angle. BUT, it is very hard to get the timing right when you're only running on three cylinders! I was checking everything I could, so while the engine was running, I started pulling spark plug wires, one at a time, to see how it affected the engine. Plug wire #2 had no effect when I pulled it. So I pulled the plug, and I guess I must have jammed it somehow while I was installing it, because there was no gap at all. So I fixed that and after a quick test drive I'd say I've got it! It's running pretty smooth, and I have a little room on either side to adjust the distributer, so I think once I find a timing light, I should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Try an Auto Parts store to see if they have a 'Tool Loan' program (AutoZone, Advance, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yep, thanks Derek. I figure I'll call around tomorrow and see if anyone will loan one. At this point I should probably just buy one...but I'll keep putting it off as long as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 So stores have very liberal, "no questions asked" return policy. Especially if you were to buy one that was packaged in such a Walmart Tool Loans! way that you might rebox it after finding out that it didn't do the job you wanted it for (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)! (Conveniently posted double spaced to help you read between the lines! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 If you have a Harbor Freight nearby they have a 90 day no questions asked return policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Inductive timing lights are less than $30, just buy one and keep it for use on old stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I refuse to set foot in Walmart...so that's out. Alright. I'll look around a bit. This is the second time in my life that I've needed a timing light...maybe that's enough to justify buying one. We'll see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Check CL. Lots of stuff cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Harbor Freight has several in the cheapskate range. Mine works just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'm driving over to Missoula tomorrow, about a 300 mile round trip. No big deal...but I'd like to get it timed today, before I leave. So I'll need to look around locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 ha ha that is the bonas of being a human anticue still have a timing light and a dwell meter for setting points sorry i am to far away . good to have a timing light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaChinook Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Yeah I went ahead and bought one. I had it just slightly advanced too far after doing it by ear. My truck doesn't have points, luckily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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